French Aircraft Carrier Never-Were Designs and Proposals

One of those many aircraft carrier studies after the 1940 armistice that I had wanted to draw for a long time, the PA5B version, with quite a few questions about the artillery as the 115 mm guns existed on the Russian side, but not the French, and the quadruple 25 mm mounts are not visible anywhere it seems it was a Hotchkiss project.

But I cannot see at all where to install, in addition, 30 quadruple 25mm mounts AND 12 double 115mm mounts!

Drawings (c) JJMM
 

Attachments

  • Projet PA5B v2 small.png
    Projet PA5B v2 small.png
    217.5 KB · Views: 282
  • Projet PA5B AV & AR v2 small.png
    Projet PA5B AV & AR v2 small.png
    210.2 KB · Views: 252
  • Projet PA5B 7 vues v2 small.png
    Projet PA5B 7 vues v2 small.png
    469.1 KB · Views: 275
Does anybody know why wikipedia and other sources on the web claim that the Joffre class would only have 2 shafts instead of 4 like in this thread ?
 

Attachments

  • jkkra7.jpg
    jkkra7.jpg
    1.9 MB · Views: 104
  • tlmvnc.jpg
    tlmvnc.jpg
    1.6 MB · Views: 92
Last edited:
Archibald said:
Data about Clemenceau catapults capabilities
https://forum.air-defense.net/topic/2736-le-successeur-du-cdg/page/407/#comment-1872983
Pictures attached (they are gigantic)

So: the catapult could throw a 18 ton plane at 100 kt. No surprise Rafale and Hornet had to sacrifice not only armement but also a lot of fuel. Crusader was 15 tons so 110 kt. Etendards were even lighter, 12 tons. An overloaded A-7E was 19 tons.
Click to expand...

Those nrs from 1960 show about a difference of 25 kts to the USN C-11:

1772908825557.png


Now taking the F-8J as a close fit, the Crusaders @ 33k lbs would have required ~40 kts wod on the Clems.
1772908799254.png

Therefore, I assume Moulin is correct with the upgrade which would be an improvement of 12-15 kts, getting closer to ~25 kts wod:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...craft-carrier-images.16711/page-3#post-562416
Same for the F-18: ~145 kts minimum as fighter (internal fuel, missiles) including 10 kts safety margin, again ~40 kts wod with the initial catapults, again more like ~25 kts wod after improvement.
 
F.L. said:
I discovered this project (which I think is real) to convert the Comandant Teste hydroplane carrier into a light aircraft carrier just after the Second World War.
The Dixmude carrier wiki page states :

View attachment 708094
Click to expand...
Do you know more about this project? Aircraft, armament etc?
 
I heard about this project a long time ago. The Cdt Teste like many other ships was scuttled at Toulon on 11-27-1942, and also bombed in 1944 for good measure. Still it was refloated and refloated again and finally remained a depot, floating barrack until the mid-1960s when it was scrapped. When it was refloated circa 1946 it was hoped something useful could be done with the hull - like a carrier. But the idea went nowhere.

some details here https://lefauteuildecolbert-blogspo...u-20.html?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr

The Commandant Teste (1st flotilla, ex-seaplane carrier); the works were intended to give it a continuous flight deck 166.50m long by 25.30m wide, the hangar would have had a height of 7.30m and the building would have been ready as early as 1948 according to estimates
Click to expand...
From
Jean Moulin, Lucien Morareau and Claude Picard ( Le Béarn et le Commandant Teste , Rennes, Marines éditions, 1996, pp. 160-161)
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
FWIW, this is what Cdt Teste looked like.
IMO no wonder the conversion did not go ahead. Especially on an old hulk rusted underwater...
1781792974999.png
 
Archibald said:
I heard about this project a long time ago. The Cdt Teste like many other ships was scuttled at Toulon on 11-27-1942, and also bombed in 1944 for good measure. Still it was refloated and refloated again and finally remained a depot, floating barrack until the mid-1960s when it was scrapped. When it was refloated circa 1946 it was hoped something useful could be done with the hull - like a carrier. But the idea went nowhere.

some details here https://lefauteuildecolbert-blogspo...u-20.html?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr


From
Click to expand...
Thx
 
Antonio said:
More about PAX and its sub variants scrolling here:

https://forummarine.forumactif.com/t4885-porte-avions-classe-clemenceau
Click to expand...
Expanding this: try this Google search "clausewitz""porte-avions" site:https://forummarine.forumactif.com/

A while back forum member Clausewitz wrote a lot of interesting stuff about french carriers. The above Clemenceau-class entry was just one good posting among many more.

----------------

Arromanches catapults were not removed even with the Clemenceau-class in service from 1963. The reason ? training ship with the naval Fouga Magister variant called Zéphyr.

And ASW role with Alizés, which were light and slow enough to operate out of Arromanches on top of Clem and Foch - don't try this with Crusaders or Etendards. ALTHOUGH Argentina did flew S.E out of 25 de Mayo 1983-86, so perhaps Arromanches could have handled Etendard IV ?

http://www.ffaa.net/aircraft/alize/alize_fr.htm

In early 1965, the 4.F participated in exercises with the Spanish Navy. The 35,000 flight hour mark was reached in January. 1970. In February, the Alizé ships embarked on the Foch. and in March on the Arromanches to participate in an exercise in the Mediterranean. From April In June, the 4.F embarks this time on the Clemenceau .
Click to expand...
Squadron 9F is relocating to the BAN of Lann-Bihoué in 1969. In 1970, she took part in the reactivation of the Cherbourg-Maupertus Naval Air Base. After several stays aboard the Arromanches , the unit was finally dissolved on June 30, 1972.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom