Convair F-106 Projects

[blackkite]

Hi! Sixshooter.

https://flic.kr/p/KAa22u

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/x-ray_delta_one/28609861346/in/photostream/

 

[blackkite]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sD7cOpBgJQ

 

[blackkite]

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1231.75

 

[blackkite]

There is a same shape two seat F-106C project drawing compared with this drawing in page 81 of AMERICAN SECRET PROJECTS FIGHTERS AND INTERCEPTORS 1945-1978.
Explanation is as follows.
"Convair drawings from November 1957 shows an earlier study for an F-106C with two seats and a longer fuselage,"

 

[Pioneer]

There is a same shape two seat F-106C project drawing compared with this drawing in page 81 of AMERICAN SECRET PROJECTS FIGHTERS AND INTERCEPTORS 1945-1978.
Explanation is as follows.
"Convair drawings from November 1957 shows an earlier study for an F-106C with two seats and a longer fuselage,"

Thanks blackkite and given the irony that I have the book.......guess what I'll be reading tomorrow!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[RAP]

Photos of the model of the F-106 Super 40.

 

[TMD]

F-106 Delta Dart at Pima Air Museum, Tucson, Arizona.

 

[Scott Kenny]

F-105 at Pima Air Museum, Tucson, Arizona.

psst! Typo

 

[Christopher Wang]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Barbier (2017) explained there was a December 21, 1956, study which proposed powering the Convair F-106 Delta Dart with an afterburning or reheating variant of the Rolls-Royce Conway turbofan (p. 77). Although the Conway ended up being very successful, Rolls-Royce never produced an afterburning variant of the Conway.

The Delta Dart stayed in Air National Guard service until its retirement in August 1988, around the same time that the Pratt & Whitney F100 and General Electric F110 afterburning turbofans were powering the General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon and McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle / F-15E Strike Eagle.

In terms of dimensions and performances, would the P&W F100 and GE F110 have been viable afterburning turbofan replacements for the Delta Dart's Pratt & Whitney J75 afterburning turbojet?

 

[Scott Kenny]

In terms of dimensions and performances, would the P&W F100 and GE F110 have been viable afterburning turbofan replacements for the Delta Dart's Pratt & Whitney J75 afterburning turbojet?

The biggest concern is probably mass flow needed, how big the intakes need to be.

But an F110 is also a bit bigger in diameter, 2000lbs lighter, and ~4ft shorter. Which is going to do weird things to weight and balance, how weird depends on where the engine mounts line up.

I expect the engine mounts to be close to the engine center of gravity, so the F110 would sit farther back in the airframe than the J75 would. This helps your overall CG problem, by putting the weight of the engine farther back. Any "extra" space in the fuselage you address by relocating where the inlets combine farther aft, and then turn that "extra" space into fuel tanks.

 

[BlackBat242]

Lets see... it looks like the main issue would have been intake air mass-flow.

J75-P-17 (F-106A/B): thrust 17,200 lb (24,500 lb afterburning)*; weight 5,875 lb; length 144.1" engine only (214" overall); diameter 43" engine body (58.5" over afterburner); SFC .80 (2.15 a/b) lb fuel/lb thrust/hour; intake air mass-flow 200 lb/sec

F100-P-220 (1986, F-15 & F-16): thrust 16,750 lb (27,000 lb)**; weight 3,365 lb; length 208" oa; diameter 40" (46.5" a/b); SFC .74 (2.05 a/b); intake air mass-flow 250

F110-GE-100 (F-16 1986): thrust 16,600 lb (28,000 lb)***; weight 3,920 lb; length 110" (181.9" oa); diameter 40" (46.45" a/b); SFC .735 (1.97 a/b); intake air mass-flow 250



* the -19W (F-105B/D/F/G): thrust 17,200 lb (26,500 lb), and the -5A/6 of the XF8U-3 produced 16,500 lb (29,500 lb); intake air mass-flow 225.

** the later -229/229A: thrust 17,800 lb (29,100 lb/32,000 lb); weight 3,705 lb; intake air mass-flow 280

*** the -129 (F-15 1986): thrust 17,000 lb (29,500 lb)
-132 (2002): thrust 17,000 lb (32,500 lb); weight 4,050 lb; SC .735 (2.09 a/b); intake air mass-flow 270

 

[blackkite]

Hi! F-106A three side view and F-106B side view.
Source : FAMOUS AIRPLANES OF THE WORLD CONVAIR F-106A DELTA DART.
https://parbestmk.best/product_details/1082469.html

 

[blackkite]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6aEjEKy7GE&t=178s

https://www.alfredsmind.ca/f106gun.html

 

[FrankM]

Lets see... it looks like the main issue would have been intake air mass-flow.

J75-P-17 (F-106A/B): thrust 17,200 lb (24,500 lb afterburning)*; weight 5,875 lb; length 144.1" engine only (214" overall); diameter 43" engine body (58.5" over afterburner); SFC .80 (2.15 a/b) lb fuel/lb thrust/hour; intake air mass-flow 200 lb/sec

F100-P-220 (1986, F-15 & F-16): thrust 16,750 lb (27,000 lb)**; weight 3,365 lb; length 208" oa; diameter 40" (46.5" a/b); SFC .74 (2.05 a/b); intake air mass-flow 250

F110-GE-100 (F-16 1986): thrust 16,600 lb (28,000 lb)***; weight 3,920 lb; length 110" (181.9" oa); diameter 40" (46.45" a/b); SFC .735 (1.97 a/b); intake air mass-flow 250



* the -19W (F-105B/D/F/G): thrust 17,200 lb (26,500 lb), and the -5A/6 of the XF8U-3 produced 16,500 lb (29,500 lb); intake air mass-flow 225.

** the later -229/229A: thrust 17,800 lb (29,100 lb/32,000 lb); weight 3,705 lb; intake air mass-flow 280

*** the -129 (F-15 1986): thrust 17,000 lb (29,500 lb)
-132 (2002): thrust 17,000 lb (32,500 lb); weight 4,050 lb; SC .735 (2.09 a/b); intake air mass-flow 270

Your numbers for the J75 und the F100 appear to be a bit off.
Everything I´ve seen on the former is in between about 250 and 260 lb/s (e.g., Tommy Thomasons excellent book on the F8-U3 gives 261 lb/s @ 26.000 lbf of thrust) and around 230 lb/s for the latter, with a thrust of about 23,800 lbf.
Upwards of 120 lbf per lb/s of airflow is something you wouldn´t get till about 1990.

Best regards,

Frank M.

 

[BlackBat242]

My numbers came from the engine sections of Jane's Aircraft (many years of volumes) and other such sources, so I wouldn't be surprised if they are a little off.

The airflow and thrust numbers you have are for the earlier F100-P-100 & -200 originally put in the F-15 & F-16 in the 1970s - the numbers I gave are for the improved higher-thrust F100-P-220 & -229 introduced in the late 1980s in those aircraft as I noted.

 

[Trident]

Everything I´ve seen on the former is in between about 250 and 260 lb/s (e.g., Tommy Thomasons excellent book on the F8-U3 gives 261 lb/s @ 26.000 lbf of thrust) and around 230 lb/s for the latter, with a thrust of about 23,800 lbf.
Upwards of 120 lbf per lb/s of airflow is something you wouldn´t get till about 1990.

Yep, turbine inlet temperatures would've been too low.

 

[FrankM]

My numbers came from the engine sections of Jane's Aircraft (many years of volumes) and other such sources, so I wouldn't be surprised if they are a little off.

The airflow and thrust numbers you have are for the earlier F100-P-100 & -200 originally put in the F-15 & F-16 in the 1970s - the numbers I gave are for the improved higher-thrust F100-P-220 & -229 introduced in the late 1980s in those aircraft as I noted.

Well, again, all references i´ve seen (but that list might obviously not be all-encompassing) credit the basic -220 engine with the same thrust (about 106 kN / 24 klbf) as the earlier versions (some sources only give 22 klbf for the -100 / -200).
Thrust levels you provided would only be possible with the later -220P, introducing significantly higher PR by adopting more advanced fan technology.

(ETA: I should have said, I´m not talking about the -229, where you are obviously quoting "canonical" values. Regards!)

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

http://blog.livedoor.jp/janome_gotyou/archives/22078737.html
Around 1975, a rectangular cross-sectional intake was prototyped, but it was never installed on the actual F-106.
It seems that wind tunnel test data was taken using the 1/20 model of this intake.
N616NA (later N816NA) was used for this research until about 1976 and is now on display at the Virginia Air & Space Center.

 

[blackkite]

They are Boeing STOL F-106 projects;


http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19800075253_1980075253.pdf

Excellent find!
I add larger images.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19800075253/downloads/19800075253.pdf

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Front view. Almost same scale.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Plan view. Almost same scale.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Side view.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
https://www.quora.com/If-all-the-Ce...-other-which-one-would-be-the-last-one-flying

 

[BlackBat242]

That all depends on the scenario, the allowed weapons, and so on.

Let the F-101 have a pair of Genie AAMs and the freedom to use them, nothing gets close enough to even shoot a missile at it.

 

[Scott Kenny]

That all depends on the scenario, the allowed weapons, and so on.

Let the F-101 have a pair of Genie AAMs and the freedom to use them, nothing gets close enough to even shoot a missile at it.

Genies only have a 6mi range...

If the F-111B gets to play, it splashes 6 birds from about 100nmi out with Phoenixes. It may struggle against the last 2 planes, using Sidewinders. F-111s do NOT like dogfighting.

Otherwise, the F-110 is the likely winner, even if it is stuck using IR Falcons.

 

[BlackBat242]

I thought they had a longer range.

OK - the "F-110A" (F-4C) had Sidewinders - it was the F-4D ("F-110B") that switched to Falcon missiles.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Spike project.
https://www.f-106deltadart.com/spikeproject.htm

 

[blackkite]

https://www.f-106deltadart.com/piwigo/index.php?/categories/flat/start-9900

 

[blackkite]

https://www.alexstoll.com/AircraftOfTheMonth/10-00.html

 

[Basil]

Hi!
https://www.quora.com/If-all-the-Ce...-other-which-one-would-be-the-last-one-flying

Regarding the photo of F-102/106 and the 104 - interesting to see how large they are compared to the Starfighter ...

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
Case 29(ⅩⅩⅨ) wing and case14(ⅩⅣ) wing station diagram. (upper surface)
Source : FAMOUS AIRPLANES OF THE WORLD CONVAIR F-106 DELTA DART. ISBN978-4-89319-327-8, etc

 

[Christopher Wang]

Hi!
https://www.quora.com/If-all-the-Ce...-other-which-one-would-be-the-last-one-flying

Are all the Century Fighters as drawn by Steve Freeman on the same scale?

 

[blackkite]

Comparing the length of F-100, F-102 and F-106 in the drawing by Mr. Steve Freeman, I feel on the same scale.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Vortex flap.

https://www.f-106deltadart.com/nasa-vortexflaps.htm
https://www.f-106deltadart.com/piwigo/index.php?/category/12

 

[Foo Fighter]

Genies only have a 6mi range...

If the F-111B gets to play, it splashes 6 birds from about 100nmi out with Phoenixes. It may struggle against the last 2 planes, using Sidewinders. F-111s do NOT like dogfighting.

Otherwise, the F-110 is the likely winner, even if it is stuck using IR Falcons.

That makes it appear that the Genie carrier is on a one way trip. I thought that sort of thing was for 'other folk'.

 

[Scott Kenny]

That makes it appear that the Genie carrier is on a one way trip. I thought that sort of thing was for 'other folk'.

Genie is a rocket, you let fly and do a 180.

And it's a small boom, the Genie was tested with USAF officers standing unprotected under the detonation point of the live warhead about 18,000ft above them.

 

[yasotay]

I imagine the Phoenix missile was far to big to have fit into the Dart's weapon bay.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Genie is a rocket, you let fly and do a 180.

And it's a small boom, the Genie was tested with USAF officers standing unprotected under the detonation point of the live warhead about 18,000ft above them.

Thanks mate.

 

[TomcatViP]

I imagine the Phoenix missile was far to big to have fit into the Dart's weapon bay.

Probably not. Both missiles have the same wingspan and sensibly the same length. The major factor at play is the effectiveness of the warhead...