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Various Latécoère project

blackkite

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Hi! Latécoère 550. You can see some vertical tail stabilizer shape.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lat%C3%A9co%C3%A8re_550
"The Latécoère 550 was a four-engined French seaplane, designed in the early 1930s as a bomber/torpedo bomber. Though initial handling problems were partly resolved, the aircraft was deemed too slow and did not go into production."

"The first flight was made from Latécoère's marine base at Biscarosse on 29 April 1933 with the 550 in seaplane form. After some modifications to engine cowlings, wings and tail it went to CEPANA at Saint-Raphaël, Var for trials in October 1933 and in November was converted, in less than four hours, into a landplane. It was not well received and described as unfit for purpose: instabilities, high control loads and pitching on contact with the water were amongst the criticisms. After modifications, including the final vertical stabiliser changes, the 550 went back to CEPANA in April 1934 in seaplane form. It seems to have handled better, but by now its maximum speed was seen as low; when the sole 550 was lost in October 1934, its port float struts collapsing on alighting, there was no enthusiasm for further development."
 

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blackkite

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Latécoère 299 and 299A.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lat%C3%A9co%C3%A8re_299
"Due to the good flying characteristics of the float plane Laté 298 it was decided to develop a version with retractable undercarriage of this type.

The Latécoère 299 was a cantilever low-wing monoplane in all metal construction with fabric-covered rowing. It took over the fuselage of the Latécoère 298, only the pilot's cabin was extended to 0.53 meters. Instead of the floating plant, the model got a retractable undercarriage, which imports the main wheels in streamlined fairings on the lower wing. The wings could be folded at because of the intended use of the carrier.

The prototype Latécoère 299.01 flew for the first time on July 27, 1939 in Cazaux . Then, 299.01 went to Lanevéoc Poulmic, where also deck landings were simulated to test. The other tests took place on the naval base of Biarritz-Parme , where on October 8, 1939, also the second prototype flew for the first time.

It was planned to build 25 Laté 299. It no longer came due to the occupation of France by the German.

The Laté 299.01 was retooled under German supervision to the single seater and for tests with two tandem arranged engines Hispano-Suiza 12Y-31 (641 kW (872 PS)) with contra-rotating propellers called Laté 299A. The 299A reached a maximum speed of 468 km/h. On April 30, 1944, the aircraft was destroyed by an airstrike."

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php?topic=32859.0

http://aviarmor.net/aww2/_photo_exp_a/_france/late.299/

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/1517/2/0

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/232067-german-premium-plane-lat%C3%A9-299a/
 

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Deltafan

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hesham said:
From Ailes 5/1946,

I search about this Project in the book; Les Avions et Hydravions Latecoere,but
I find nothing,it was a two tandem wing concept,who can help ?.
It seems that it's only a two tandem engines and counterrotating propellers concept. Nothing is said about if it was foreseen to be used in wings or in frames. But it's seem to be more logical in a wing...
 

Apophenia

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Yes. Basically the Late 299A layout arranged as separate push and pull powerplants.
 

hesham

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Deltafan said:
It seems that it's only a two tandem engines and counterrotating propellers concept. Nothing is said about if it was foreseen to be used in wings or in frames. But it's seem to be more logical in a wing...
That maybe right my dear Deltafan,

but what was it ?.
 

Apophenia

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here is a strange and unknown Project,but I suspect it was from Latecoere (maybe de Monge design),who can ID it ?;
Not me but, since this wind tunnel model was rescued in Biscarrosse, it almost certainly originated with Latécoère. In 1940, I presume that Louis de Monge would still have been in Paris working on completing the Bugatti 100P.
 

Apophenia

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That's interesting Terry. This model has a distinctly SAB look about it (certainly more than any Latécoère). If this model was indeed 'rescued' from the advancing Boche, the 75 km drive from SNCASO (Société Aérienne Bordelaise as was) in Bordeaux down to Biscarrosse seems very reasonable
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Apophenia,

but we must also consider in this period,the Late.680 & Late.690 were unknown Projects.
 

Apophenia

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Too true hesham ... but Terry did nail the strong Dyle et Bacalan/SAB resemblances.

Going out on a speculative limb, I'm going to suggest that this model represented a scheme to update the 1929 Dyle et Bacalan DB 70 concept.

In plan view, the wind tunnel model appears all but identical to the DB 70 fuselage and booms. However, the wings are another matter. The braced, parallel chord wings of the DB 70/AB 20/AB 22 series have been replaced by tapered, cantilever outer panels. These are not too dissimilar to the cantilever wings of the SAB AB 21 Bn5 (although, to my eye, the wing shape even more closely represents the plan form of the 1930 SAB DB 80/DB 81 single-engined postal aircraft prototype).

Attached are rough comparative plan views. I've come to believe, we are looking at an update of the DB 70 concept. If so, the shape suggests a design sticking quite closely to the DB 70 fuselage with AB 21 Bn5 tailplane. The wings may be modified AB 21 panels with extended tips or, more likely, a completely new design. Either way - and assuming that my speculation is at all accurate - this concept clearly failed to inspire the new bosses at SNCASO!
 

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hesham

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I think you are completely right my dear Apophenia,

but what was SNCASO designation we can guess ?, SO.1000 began in 1941,maybe SO.100 ?.
 

riggerrob

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Was Vincent Burnelli pleased to see those French lifting-body bombers?
 

Apophenia

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... what was SNCASO designation we can guess ?, SO.1000 began in 1941,maybe SO.100 ?.
Who can say? The earliest SNCASO designations all seem to be shortened forms of predecessor firms' numbers - eg: the 'front pair' of Bloch MB 800P becomes the SO 80; the 'hind pair' of Bloch MB 1030 becomes the SO 30. So, even if we knew the original SAB designation, we couldn't be certain of how to derive a Sud-Ouest number.
 

hesham

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That's right my dear Apophenia,

but we must understand that,the SNCASO 10s series was begun from up,at first Bloch MB.800 became SO.80,
MB.900 became SO.90,and maybe SO.100 taken from SASO ?.
 

Caravellarella

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... what was SNCASO designation we can guess ?, SO.1000 began in 1941,maybe SO.100 ?.
Who can say? The earliest SNCASO designations all seem to be shortened forms of predecessor firms' numbers - eg: the 'front pair' of Bloch MB 800P becomes the SO 80; the 'hind pair' of Bloch MB 1030 becomes the SO 30. So, even if we knew the original SAB designation, we couldn't be certain of how to derive a Sud-Ouest number.
The SNCASO SO.30 and the Bloch MB.1020 were different (but competing) types. The MB.1020 prototype was abandoned incomplete at Talance once the SO.30 was selected for production. Neither of them, nor the competing Breguet Br.500 Colmar, were Latécoères......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

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... what was SNCASO designation we can guess ?, SO.1000 began in 1941,maybe SO.100 ?.
Who can say? The earliest SNCASO designations all seem to be shortened forms of predecessor firms' numbers - eg: the 'front pair' of Bloch MB 800P becomes the SO 80; the 'hind pair' of Bloch MB 1030 becomes the SO 30. So, even if we knew the original SAB designation, we couldn't be certain of how to derive a Sud-Ouest number.
The SNCASO SO.30 and the Bloch MB.1020 were different (but competing) types. The MB.1020 prototype was abandoned incomplete at Talance once the SO.30 was selected for production. Neither of them, nor the competing Breguet Br.500 Colmar, were Latécoères......

Terry (Caravellarella)
Dear Boys & Girls, the incomplete Marcel Bloch MB.1020 is in the background of this image of the prototype Marcel Dassault MD.303 Flamant in the hangar at Talance; neither of them are Latécoères......

Bloch MB.1020 - 1.......jpg

Terry (Caravellarella)
 
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