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Tanks converted to APCs?

riggerrob

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How many countries converted turreted tanks to Armoured Personnel Carriers?

We know about the Canadian "Kangaroos" made from de-frocked M7 Priests and Ram tanks during the summer of 1944. Many Rams were also converted to "Wombat" ammo carriers.
Post WW2, Sweden converted a Czech 38T light tanks to Bv 301 APCs.
Brazil converted US Army surplus M3 Stuart light tanks to X1A with 90 mm guns and at least one M3 was converted to carry a 120 mm mortar. It looked like a smaller version of M113, but with only 4 road wheels per side. How many M3s did Brazil convert to APCs?
Post 1967, Israel converted a variety of Shermans, Centurions and T-54 to APCs.

Can anyone name any other turreted tank to APC conversions?
 

skylancer-3441

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presumably Soviet BMPT prototypes though may be not, definitely Russian BTR-T and BMO-T, Ukrainian BMT-72 and wheeled and tracked version of BMP-64, Jordanian-Ukrainian AB-13, Jordanian Dawsar and MAP II, Israeli conversion of Merkava Mk.2 to Ofek APC, Indian T-55-based TBHA to name a few
 
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Fluff

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Not sure if you would include Nammer, as its not really a conversion? Development of, would be more accurate?
 

Fluff

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Also Jordan had a previous go at the centurion, which I think involved the chassis going backwards, if you follow me. called Temsah.

1591641710854.png
 

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tom!

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Hi.

The Type 98 So-Da was rated as battlefield supply vehicle not as APC. There were no seats for soldiers in the transport compartment. And the possible transport capacity would not have been more than 2-3 equipped soldiers.

jap%20typ%2098%20so-da%203.jpg
jap%20typ%2098%20so-da%202.jpg


It wasn´t even possible to mount small guns like the Type 98 2 cm AA Maschine Cannon or the Type 94 37 cm Rapid-Fire Infantry Gun on top of the fighting and crew compartment due to the small size. There were some gun carriers based on this vehicle but all with a lengthened basic vehicle.

IJA had some purpose-built APC since 1935 but no converted tanks.

Yours

tom! ;)
 

dan_inbox

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the possible transport capacity would not have been more than 2-3 equipped soldiers.
Beg to differ. According to my files, the capacity of a So-Da was 2 crew + either 10 dismounts or one ton of ammo. Several online sources say the same.
To cite only 2 sources, https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/type-98-so-da.htm and https://ww2db.com/vehicle_spec.php?q=286

To take your own photos: "jap typ 98 so-da 2.jpg", that you posted above, shows five Allied soldiers in it, with clearly room for a few more, given the IJA comfort standards of 1937.
And the other one, if you enlarge it, look rather like there are collapsed seats along the walls.
 

tom!

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Hi.

Well, the quite similar ype 100 Te-Re Armoured Observation Vehicle was barely able to carry an 8 men crew without any combat equipment. (yes I know that there was a some other equipment placed in that vehicle). 10 equipped soldiers including ammo etc. is in my opinion simply impossible due to the size.

Yes there are five soldiers posing inside the vehicle but without equipment or ammo and as you see the armor protection was more than not available for two of them. It might be possible that it could carry 6 men on short ranges but not more.

Regarding sources: I had to learn that many of them rely on US wartime estimations and postwar publications which are something between problematic and pure nonsense. All my japanese sources (including the Ground Power series and the japanese army expert and author Mr. Akira "Taki" Takizawa => www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/) refer to the vehicle as supply transport vehicle only.

To solve this I will ask Taki for some further infos on this point at the Axis History Forum.

Edit:
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=249848

No soldier transport, sorry.

Yours

tom! ;)
 
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DWG

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The UK's FV300 series didn't reach production, but was planned to include both tank and APC versions (FV301 tank, FV310 APC).

And of course there's the CVT series with Scorpion/Scimitar/Sabre and Spartan and Stormer.

Though both of those were design families planned to allow both from the start.

OTOH the CV 90 went the opposite route and developed both turretless APCs (Armadillo) and light tanks (CV 90 105 and CV 90 120) from a turreted MICV basis.
 

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Sort of a fringe case for "APC", but this is the Ladoga (also known as Debut), a rather unique vehicle built to extract VIPs from the Kremlin in case of war. Based on a T-80 chassis, fully sealed and CBRN-protected with space for four passengers and two crewmen. Kind of confusing to me, as we very strongly suspect there was a special Metro-2 line from the Kremlin directly to Vnukovo airport that would be much more efficient than this thing. Unless they were hiding these things in the rumored deep subterranean facilities in Moscow like the Ramenki "underground city" or the Kremlin bunker, for use after the bombs stop falling...

a4c0ba2d63f21b66e81892e06ba2f4ed.jpg
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Grey Havoc

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Unless they were hiding these things in the rumored deep subterranean facilities in Moscow like the Ramenki "underground city" or the Kremlin bunker, for use after the bombs stop falling...

Quite possible.
 

natewillcome4you

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Ones that to my knowledge haven't entered service:

The Indian Tarmour

The Russian BTR_T

The Ukranian BMPV-64

The Israeli Magachon
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/akl08j
The Ukrainian BMP-K-64, one of my favorite afvs ever built

Ones that did see service:

Specially designed for flamethrower teams, another one of my favorite afvs, the Russian BMO-T

Not quite the topic of this thread, but similar and interesting enough that I included it, this thingamajig
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/85426o
And let's not forget the OG, the conceptual predecessor of all of these, the British Mark IX

There's some more over at military today, but it's been a dpressing day so this is all I've got for y'all right now
 

Fluff

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Ones that to my knowledge haven't entered service:

The Indian Tarmour

The Russian BTR_T

The Ukranian BMPV-64

The Israeli Magachon
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/akl08j
The Ukrainian BMP-K-64, one of my favorite afvs ever built

Ones that did see service:

Specially designed for flamethrower teams, another one of my favorite afvs, the Russian BMO-T

Not quite the topic of this thread, but similar and interesting enough that I included it, this thingamajig
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/85426o
And let's not forget the OG, the conceptual predecessor of all of these, the British Mark IX

There's some more over at military today, but it's been a dpressing day so this is all I've got for y'all right now
Nice selection.

I like the Ukrainian approach, god gives you lemons...….
 

natewillcome4you

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I like the Ukrainian approach, god gives you lemons...….
I do think it's amazing how they took the T-64, designed multiple upgrades for domestic and export use, conversions to heavy apc, wheeled apc, bridgelayer, arv, and even a bmpt lookalike, to say nothing of what the questionably capable people in the Azov factory tried to do with it.
 

Apophenia

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The Norinco VN-17 heavy IFV was based on the VT-5 light tank for export. I'm not sure if the VN-50 heavy IFV derived from the VT-4 MBT ever emerged.
 

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Newtonk

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The M 50 option is / was available as a conversion by AEF... this is what one looks like today:
B7074FE3-AD46-4CDD-BF22-5C7EE0CF5F53.jpeg
 

Wyvern

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The BTR-D is an APC development of the BMD air transportable tank chassis, with many variants based off of it, including anti-aircraft vehicles and the 2S9 Nona mortar.
1592204456425.png
 

DWG

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The BTR-D is an APC development of the BMD air transportable tank chassis, with many variants based off of it, including anti-aircraft vehicles and the 2S9 Nona mortar.
View attachment 635290
BMD* was always an IFV, not a tank, it has a three man troop compartment behind the turret, and commander and one gunner are also dismounts.

*BMD = Boyevaya Mashina Desanta = Airborne (Forces) Combat Vehicle.
 

Apophenia

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Only a prototype ... XM3B1 (originally Projeto M.01.13) - a Brazilian prototype APC based on the suspension of the M3/M3A1 Stuart light tank. By Bernardini on behalf of the CTEx (Centro Tecnológico do Exército). Combined a new hull with tracks and suspension made surplus by Brazil's X1 Pioneiro M3 rebuilds. Power was by a Brazilian-made Mercedes-Benz OM 352 diesel - for commonality with the Exército Brasileiro's Engesa EE-9 Cascavel and EE-11 Urutu wheeled vehicles.

 

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Grzesio

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There was a couple of carriers designed and/or built on the Soviet T-26 light tank hull - TR-1, TR-4, TR-4-3 and TP-26 APCs as well as TB-26 and TR-4-1 ammunition carriers. I'm just not sure if they can be counted as "conversions". :)
 

Petrus

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The Finns converted one BT-7 tank into an APC referred to as the BT-43. Here is a picture of its prototype (with a wooden box on top of the hull) and drawings of what probably was a definitive version (with armoured roof).

You may also find some info on that project on:

Axis History Forum https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=136749 with info on the drawings (on AHF they are in black&white, these that I am posting here I found somewhere over the Internet 10 years ago, so it's impossible for me to say now where):

That drawing in there is the only existing drawing I have ever seen about BT-43. There are not known photographs of this vehicle prototype. I have photos of the test report concerning driving tests done with BT-43 prototype that Major Åkerman (Commander of Assault Gun Platoon belonging to Armour Division) and Captain Kvikant sent to Commander of Armour Division (Lagus) in December of 1943. I found the particular report while doing some research in Finnish Military Archives in December of 2005. The report specifies that there were plans of redesigning the armour, apparently Kvikant and Åkerman had made a proposal of this and Lagus had suggested some improvements, which were corporated to the design plan. Probably these modifications were not made before BT-43 project was abandoned, but the attached photos might give some idea what the improved version of BT-43 might have looked like. While the report tells that the design had its share of problems (narrow tracks and poor mobility in typical Finnish terrain are mentioned especially) according it the resulting vehicle might have been satisfactory transport vehicle for the infantry.

And on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT-43.

Piotr
 

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Ravinoff

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Whew, big update here on the Ladoga NBC-protected vehicle I posted a while back. Came across a site today that I believe only recently got translated into English (I've Google-translated it before for some obscure Russian armaments) with a pretty big article on the Ladoga with design details and...well, I'll get to the other thing in a minute.

https://en.topwar.ru/173623-zaschita-dlja-ladogi.html

Translation is a little rough, I think probably machine-translated, but there's some fascinating stuff in here.
  • Based on the T-80 MBT as I mentioned previously, essentially being a new superstructure on the hull in place of a turret.
  • Fully NBC-protected with filtered air intakes, also has a self-contained air supply system fed from a compressed air cylinder. Turbine engine is effectively self-cleaning, running with no filters and modified internals to basically dump any contaminants out the exhaust. Drivers use external cameras and periscopes to stay buttoned up. And the whole thing has a boron-based radiation shield lining the armor.
  • VIP transport was only one application, it was also made to function as a mobile command post or recon vehicle.
But here's the real kicker: they actually field-tested the damn thing. And not just the usual driving it around a test area, they had this thing crawling the Karakorum Desert and northern Siberia. And then they tested it in a live radiation hazard area. Yeah, you know where this is going. April 26, 1986, the Chernobyl No. 4 reactor suffers a critical failure resulting in an explosion and meltdown. On May 3rd, they flew a Ladoga unit in from Leningrad. By the 5th, it was doing reconnaissance in the contaminated zone, through areas hitting 1000 roentgen/hour. And apparently that still wasn't enough, because in the course of the four months it operated in the Chernobyl NPP area, they took it as far in as the (still wide-open) reactor building, where the external conditions registered an eye-watering 2500 roentgen/hr. It naturally required decontamination every time they brought it back, but there were no issues noted and that specific vehicle was scrubbed and returned to Leningrad. Pictured below is that vehicle, Ladoga "317", allegedly during its exploration of the exclusion zone.

1596114516_1.jpg
 

Foo Fighter

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That engineer vehicle with the number 19 on it, I make it based on a T-54 but am uncertain, what is it please?
 

Foo Fighter

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Thank you, Sir.

I do wonder why they mucked these about so much, better to reverse the hull, (Shirley) or not?
 
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Fluff

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Thank you, Sir.

I do wonder why they mucked these about so much, better to reverse the hull, (Shirley) or not?
I think they put a modern american diesel in, which made space for the access door.

Keeping it running the same way, allows the armour to be kept more or less as is.

I seem to recall they use these as battering rams into buildings, then reverse up the rear door, entry straight into the building maybe they wanted the integrity at the front, and the armour, and a door at the rear. Its unique to the Isreaeli army.
 

Foo Fighter

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Thanks, " Its unique to the Isreaeli army", there is quite a lot unique to that army and hopefully its troops are better protected for it.
 

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