Sukhoi S- Designations

Stargazer2006

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Interesting. A little technical correction here: this was S-80 — not Su- for Sukhoi but S- for Simonov. Sukhoi model numbers are not allocated to all the designs, only those that get to the production stage.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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S- for Simonov - well, maybe. His ego did know no bounds... Or, just possibly S- for swept wing like with all Sukhoi designs that didn't use T- for delta wing. ::)
 

Stargazer2006

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I did not make up the Simonov bit. I think the info was pretty much all around the place at the time this and other S- designs from Sukhoi first showed up.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Really? So he must have designed the S-1 15 years before joining Sukhoi. Who is the T-50 named after then?

S- and T- have been used internally at Sukhoi since S-1 and T-1.

Some Sukhoi S- designations....

S-1, S-2, S-22 (Su-7)
S-26 (Su-7 with Skis)
S-6 (Early Su-24 project)
S-32 (Su-17)
S-52 (Su-17M3)
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Just because you read it doesn't necessarily make it true. Just because Mikhail Simonov said it, that doesn't make it true either. Exactly how much "designing" did he do of the Su-27? His interviews make it sound like he did the whole thing himself. If anyone should be "father" of the Su-27 its Vladimir Antonov.
 

Stargazer2006

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overscan said:
Just because you read it doesn't necessarily make it true. Just because Mikhail Simonov said it, that doesn't make it true either. Exactly how much "designing" did he do of the Su-27? His interviews make it sound like he did the whole thing himself. If anyone should be "father" of the Su-27 its Vladimir Antonov.

overscan said:
Really? So he must have designed the S-1 15 years before joining Sukhoi. Who is the T-50 named after then?

Please cut the irony! I never claimed it WAS true, I said that this was the official version at the time when the S-80 and a few other S- designs were first shown. Did I ever say it applied to the whole line of S- designs since the beginning?

Stargazer2006 said:
I think the info was pretty much all around the place at the time this and other S- designs from Sukhoi first showed up.
 

mrdetonator

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overscan said:
Just because Mikhail Simonov said it, that doesn't make it true either. Exactly how much "designing" did he do of the Su-27? His interviews make it sound like he did the whole thing himself. If anyone should be "father" of the Su-27 its Vladimir Antonov.
Designers whims... ;D Considering the fact how many good books about the Su-27 have been released so far, it is really unbelievable to read that you are first person questioning Mikhail Simonov work on the T-10. Doesnt matter how big his ego was, certainly he was very intelligent designer and good project manager as he redesigned everything screwed-up by his predecessor on the T-10 and created the icon Su-27 as whole world knows it. Then it is funny to read memoirs of Mr. Samojlovich accusing, crying and telling gossips on Simonov that very bad times will come for OKB Sukhoi when he(Simonov) become general designer. Time proved him wrong about that!. Even more hypocritical sounds how he presents work on design changes to the T-10 and not mentioning the truth how hard he fought against everything no matter what Simonov proposed. If anyone should be the "father" of T-10 its Vladimir Antonov, will you agree?... ;)


P.S. and sorry for OT.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Stargazer2006 said:
Interesting. A little technical correction here: this was S-80 — not Su- for Sukhoi but S- for Simonov. Sukhoi model numbers are not allocated to all the designs, only those that get to the production stage.

You said it was S- for Simonov, not Su- for Sukhoi. As Su- is an official designation, and S- is an internal one, this is immediately misleading, and contradicted by your second statement.

I still don't believe that S- stood for Simonov. Sukhoi have used S- for projects since 1950s. Unless you believe that they changed the designation system to the initial of the General Designer during Simonov's tenure, then S- presumably stood for swept/straight wings as before. I really don't recall reading that S- stood for Simonov anywhere, do you have a source for that?
 

Stargazer2006

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That was an old AW&ST or a Flight International from the 1990s, but I cut them all out and kept only the articles I cared for. Perhaps I still have the article in question, but I'll have to dig hard. However I know I didn't make it up because at that time I didn't even KNOW who Simonov was until I read about that.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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mrdetonator said:
overscan said:
Just because Mikhail Simonov said it, that doesn't make it true either. Exactly how much "designing" did he do of the Su-27? His interviews make it sound like he did the whole thing himself. If anyone should be "father" of the Su-27 its Vladimir Antonov.
Designers whims... ;D Considering the fact how many good books about the Su-27 have been released so far, it is really unbelievable to read that you are first person questioning Mikhail Simonov work on the T-10. Doesnt matter how big his ego was, certainly he was very intelligent designer and good project manager as he redesigned everything screwed-up by his predecessor on the T-10 and created the icon Su-27 as whole world knows it. Then it is funny to read memoirs of Mr. Samojlovich accusing, crying and telling gossips on Simonov that very bad times will come for OKB Sukhoi when he(Simonov) become general designer. Time proved him wrong about that!. Even more hypocritical sounds how he presents work on design changes to the T-10 and not mentioning the truth how hard he fought against everything no matter what Simonov proposed. If anyone should be the "father" of T-10 its Vladimir Antonov, will you agree?... ;)


P.S. and sorry for OT.

There's always two sides to every story. Simonov was a good manager, certainly, but many of the redesigned elements were already underway before he took over the program. He gave it focus and direction, and refused to deliver a substandard product, and that's highly commendable, but he certainly didn't arrive, sit down at a drawing board, scrap existing work done as a total writeoff and then draw out a new aerodynamic layout, which is kind of how he presents it (the whole "the only thing in common is the ejector seat" quotes).

Then of course from about 1980(?) to 1985 Simonov was at TsAGI, completely out of the picture in a core time for the development of the T-10S. Somehow everyone else seemed to muddle through without him :)
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Stargazer2006 said:
That was an old AW&ST or a Flight International from the 1990s, but I cut them all out and kept only the articles I cared for. Perhaps I still have the article in question, but I'll have to dig hard. However I know I didn't make it up because at that time I didn't even KNOW who Simonov was until I read about that.

Thats fine - but did the journalist invent it or make an honest mistake? Did Simonov say it tongue in cheek? I'd like to see it.
 

mrdetonator

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overscan said:
Stargazer2006 said:
Interesting. A little technical correction here: this was S-80 — not Su- for Sukhoi but S- for Simonov. Sukhoi model numbers are not allocated to all the designs, only those that get to the production stage.

You said it was S- for Simonov, not Su- for Sukhoi. As Su- is an official designation, and S- is an internal one, this is immediately misleading, and contradicted by your second statement.

I still don't believe that S- stood for Simonov.

Ahh, no need to believe that as S- stood for Samolet in russian "Самолет", it is a code designating a project in progress. ;D
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Actually, was Simonov Vice-Minister of aviation or something? I should probably check the facts before posting. Neverless he was elsewhere for several years.
 

mrdetonator

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overscan said:
There's always two sides to every story. Simonov was a good manager, certainly, but many of the redesigned elements were already underway before he took over the program. He gave it focus and direction, and refused to deliver a substandard product, and that's highly commendable, but he certainly didn't arrive, sit down at a drawing board, scrap existing work done as a total writeoff and then draw out a new aerodynamic layout, which is kind of how he presents it (the whole "the only thing in common is the ejector seat" quotes).

Then of course from about 1980(?) to 1985 Simonov was at TsAGI, completely out of the picture in a core time for the development of the T-10S. Somehow everyone else seemed to muddle through without him :)

Geez, a General designer of OKB doesnt work 24/7 behind A0 drawing-board and actually draws detailed drawings for a workshop. Of course he should give focus, lead the team in right direction, bcs that is the job expected from a general designer like once P.O. Sukhoi, E.Ivanov or the chief designer O. Samojlovich.
Anyway, I think we should postpone this conversation till you read the second book about the Su-27/T-10S.

He is now 80, here is a nice but old article about him at Sukhoi official webpage. Really, no one denies him credit.
http://www.sukhoi.com.ru/news/company/?id=139
 

Silencer1

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Hi!

One minor thing about S-80 - on the official page of KNAAPO this aircraft has been designated Су-80ГП (Su-80GP).
http://knaapo.com/rus/gallery/events/civil/su-80gp/index.wbp - and there were some other nice pictures around there :cool:
Sadly, changing the name has little influense on its fate - it's still remains undemanded by customers.

Cheers!

P.S. There were no T-50 photos here...
 

AM

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hi

S (Ñ -Ñòðåëîâèäíîå êðûëî) -strelovidnoe (arrow-type wing)
T (Ò -Òðåóãîëüíîå êðûëî) -treugol'noe (triangular-type wing)
 

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