Shenyang FC-31 demonstrators / J-35 naval fighter / J-35A land-based version

Sferrin said:
Unbelievably so. Even the F414 EPE is only 120k. The 127k seems more like fanboi fantasies.
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The estimated thrust range from the grapevine so to speak is 12,000-13,000kgf. So 127kN is the most optimistic estimate. I believe 117kN -122kN would be the conservative estimate.

Well unless you believe Chinese engine tech is still 20 years behind the west and this is not possible for them.
 
It won't take the Chinese long to catch up with the engine tech Nx4eu that is for sure, wait another ten years then we will see the Chinese has cought up with the West.
 
FighterJock said:
It won't take the Chinese long to catch up with the engine tech Nx4eu that is for sure, wait another ten years then we will see the Chinese has cought up with the West.
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Well without published data on Chinese engines, it’s hard to know if the Chinese have caught up, are catching up or are way behind on technologies. Even in 10 years time, it’s not like they’ll be any less opaque than they are now.

Anyways that’s besides the point. I think the WS-19 producing 117-122kN is completely plausible.
 
I am with you on that point concerning the WS-19 producing 117-122kN thrust NX4eu I would think that the WS-19 would have to have that amount of thrust for super cruising without using reheat.
 
The plain static thrust output isn't the primary metric for supercruise. What matters is first and foremost the dynamic installed thrust at supersonic speeds and higher altitudes, along with the drag of the airframe.
 
Scorpion82 said:
The plain static thrust output isn't the primary metric for supercruise. What matters is first and foremost the dynamic installed thrust at supersonic speeds and higher altitudes, along with the drag of the airframe.
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Good luck trying to get that information from the Chinese in the next 40 years. Even just the static thrust numbers are hard to come by.
 
FighterJock said:
It won't take the Chinese long to catch up with the engine tech Nx4eu that is for sure, wait another ten years then we will see the Chinese has cought up with the West.
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More like 5, the technology is already there. They are working on building up supply chains and production facilities, the engines they have in late stages of development/awaiting mass production should match up to the latest western engines in technology and performance. We should see them widely used before 2030(WS-15, WS-19, AEP400/500, CJ-1000A and even CJ-2000 is rumored to be certified by the end of the decade).
 
Scorpion82 said:
Btw 127 kN seems quite a lot for an engine of this size.
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Considering that we have only the most basic notion of what "this size" actually is, not necessarily. I mean, fundamentally we only know that it's supposed to be in the same general ball park of the EJ200, F414 and RD-33 and their enhanced derivatives. That's a 10+% spread in dry weight already - going from 120 to 127kN is a mere 6% step.

Taking the 810mm fan diameter of the F414 as the basis and assuming the Chinese engine runs on the same cycle, getting to 127kN from 120 requires a size increase of less than one inch...
 
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Trident said:
Considering that we have only the most basic notion of what "this size" actually is, not necessarily. I mean, fundamentally we only know that it's supposed to be in the same general ball park of the EJ200, F414 and RD-33 and their enhanced derivatives. That's a 10+% spread in dry weight already - going from 120 to 127kN is a mere 6% step.

Taking the 810mm fan diameter of the F414 as the basis and assuming the Chinese engine runs on the same cycle, getting to 127kN from 120 requires a size increase of less than one inch...
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Given the F414 EPE is nearly two decades old it's probably not impossible.
 
That the panel has a different shape is ignored by all sides seemingly.
 
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I don't think Sferrin tried to put some backhanded implications as much as just pointing out that an F-35 operating with obvious GSEs has a ladder too. Unless someone can infer from a basic front view that a slide out ladder is any proof that a bird is the specific carrier variant.

And as Deino pointed out right under that post, the bird in question is an Air Force variant.
 
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yeetmahboi said:
I don't think Sferrin tried to put some backhanded implications as much as just pointing out that an F-35 operating with obvious GSEs has a ladder too. Unless someone can infer from a basic front view that a slide out ladder is any proof that a bird is the specific carrier variant.
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Than I misunderstood the comparison and apologize for the accusation
 
I know, but I must admit I do not find these constant stupid claims not only boring, tiresome and in fact stupid but even more we are here another forum with - at least IMO - a slightly higher standard than the typical fan-boy Reddit chat group!
 
This is just my personal judgment based on the official and online information I have accessed within China. The development progress of the new-generation low-bypass military turbofan engines (WS-15, WS-19) and high-bypass civil turbofan engines (CJ-1000A, CJ-2000) is quite good, and I think it is relatively optimistic to see tangible results within 3 to 5 years.
 
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Of course, I don't think China's civil aircraft engines can catch up with giants like GE and RR in a short period of time. However, as China's aviation engine industry chain becomes more mature, and with the domestic market demand in China, progress is predictable.
 
pagliacci said:
Of course, I don't think China's civil aircraft engines can catch up with giants like GE and RR in a short period of time. However, as China's aviation engine industry chain becomes more mature, and with the domestic market demand in China, progress is predictable.
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I've heard and seen some evidence that CJ-2000 will be a GTF similar to Ultrafan
 
pagliacci said:
Could it be that the inconsistent semantics caused by AI translation made me seem to be overstating things? However, I believe it won't be long before China draws close to the first echelon in terms of engine technology.
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I see WS-15 being designed to fit in the same size envelope as WS-10 and AL-31. Do you have any info on the bypass ratio of WS-15. Is it 0.5ish like most fighter engines, or is it much lower like F119, which is a supercruise optimized engine?
 
Elysium said:
I see WS-15 being designed to fit in the same size envelope as WS-10 and AL-31. Do you have any info on the bypass ratio of WS-15. Is it 0.5ish like most fighter engines, or is it much lower like F119, which is a supercruise optimized engine?
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It has much lower bypass ratio similar to F-119. Very much high speed optimized.
 
... an attempt to pour oil on troubled waters ...
Having a personal opinion is absolutely ok, of course, but if made public here, it should be somehow attested at least, as otherwise it's just pure speculation.
And as Deino wrote, such speculations we can find often enough in chat groups of all kinds, so we actually don't need them here. ;)
 
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Interesting comparison of aerodynamic layouts. Setting aside obvious differences like the intakes and nozzles, there are significant differences in the tailplane and twin vertical stabilizer layouts, while the treatment of the main wing tips is surprisingly similar. In addition to the comparison between the F-22 and J-35A, there is also an outline comparison between the KF-21 and J-35A.
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