• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Shenyang J-15 "Flying Shark"

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,970
Reaction score
5,279
Speculation is growing in Chinese forums over the possibility that Shenyang are designing a new J-13 naval fighter, possibly using technologies from their next generation fighter bid for J-14 which appears to have been rejected in favour of Chengdu's design.

Whether this is simply a Chinese version of the Su-33, or a new design, remains an open question. The normally fairly conservative Huitong's site has posted these images, which seem rather unlikely and quite different...
 

Attachments

  • J-13.jpg
    J-13.jpg
    92.7 KB · Views: 747
  • J-13a.jpg
    J-13a.jpg
    58.5 KB · Views: 638

fightingirish

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,490
Reaction score
1,037
These pictures came out at the same time as the news source "Asahi Shimbun" reported that China will start construction of two 50-60,000 ton aircraft carrier this year.
Huitong's site also reports that some parts of J-13 such as landing gear have already been manufactured.
Deino has posted a picture of that ceremony in the German forum "Flugzeugforum".
But we must wait and see how the financial crisis will affect the Chinese carrier program.
 

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
fightingirish said:
But we must wait and see how the financial crisis will affect the Chinese carrier program.

But I think the most important part on that story is how the politics and esp. the military leaders decide on their priorities.

Regarding the "development" of a carrier-capable fighter its a story running thru the www since many years beginning with the rumour of a twin-engined, EF-look-alike J-10 version once called J-10B, followed by the more or less substantial report that China managed to acquire one of the Su-33 prototypes via the Ukrainian and the efforts to develop a version called J-11BJ.
Besides that there are repeated reports or better to say rumours that the original J-10B was actually once a real concept, which was later replaced by a more improved and semi-stealthy version … others say this was a derivate of the original CAC submission to the XXJ, which was at that time given to SAC, which also lost out to SAC’s more realistic approach to develop a Flanker-derived type. … But since then, the favours changed again, the XXJ was finally shifted again to CAC which should now develop this type in cooperation with SAC based on CAC’s design … and [rumour-modus on] the navy changed its mind to proceed with an all-new design and leave the Flanker-version. [rumour-modus off].

So long I would have said its much too early even to speculate … all types so far where more or less nice what-if-types with the J-11BJ maybe the most realistic one, but as Paul said Huitong is “normally fairly conservative” and very carefully in posting such things. On the other side he’s one of the best known and well respected guys in the Chinese forum-community – making him a really “Big shrimp” – so it seems these latest reports are much more substantial than anything before.

As far as I know by now, these latest reports were “initiated” after a Chinese newspaper (or online-magazine) reported of the delivery of the first landing gear … something no-one would have expected at this stage, so it means the project seems to have gained momentum and that it has proceeded a step further. These two pictures – which cause some wild speculation in some forums – are as far as I know are only examples shown in a TV-report of possible future types and a discussion about which direction the J-13 might take; nothing substantial.

Therefore … lets take a cup of coffee and wait.

Below, that was the picture “fightingirish” mentioned ….


Deino
 

Attachments

  • SAC J-13 main gear delivery.jpg
    SAC J-13 main gear delivery.jpg
    58.3 KB · Views: 534

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
A small and still not very claer update ohn the J-15-programme, as that fighter is now called.


J-15 is the first generation of Chinese shipborne fighter aircraft being developed by both 601 Institute and SAC for PLAN's first aircraft carrier. In the beginning there were rumors claiming that J-15 was a new semi-stealth design based on a similar but more advanced stealth design developed earlier by SAC/601 Institute to compete for the J-14 project (see below), but this design turned out to be a follow-on design. In order to save time and cut cost, the aircraft is now believed to be based on Russian Su-33 in terms of structural configuration and flight control system as well as domestic J-11B (see above) in terms of radar and weapon systems. Similar to Su-33, J-15 features a pair of small canard wings to improve its low speed handling and shortened tailcone to avoid tail-scrape during high AoA landing. Some key shipborne aircraft technologies such as landing/navigational systems are believed to have been obtained from Russia and Ukraine. One Su-33 prototype (T-10K-3) was acquired from Ukraine around 2001 and has been studied extensively. J-15 is believed to share many common components with J-11B, such as a similar radar, the same glass cockpit as well as the improved WS-10 turbofan engine. It can also fire a variety of Chinese designed weapons, including PL-8, PL-12 AAMs and YJ-83K AShM. Overall J-15 is believed to be in the same class of American F/A-18C. The first prototype has been undergoing assembly at SAC since 2008. J-15 is expected first to be stationed onboard the Varyag aircraft carrier currently being fitted in Dalian. The latest news suggested that the first prototype made its maiden flight on August 31, 2009, powered initially by Russian AL-31F turbofan engines

http://cnair.top81.cn/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm

Quite interesting, the J-11B prototype no. 524 has been modified and just recently seen at the CFTE-airfield Xian-Yanliang, where also a new ramp has been added to the runway.


Deino
 

Attachments

  • Xian-Yanliang ramp.jpg
    Xian-Yanliang ramp.jpg
    58.4 KB · Views: 50
  • J-11 at Xian aka J-15 - close up 4.jpg
    J-11 at Xian aka J-15 - close up 4.jpg
    7.9 KB · Views: 2,196
  • J-11 at Xian aka J-15 - close up 3.jpg
    J-11 at Xian aka J-15 - close up 3.jpg
    127.3 KB · Views: 49
  • J-11 at Xian aka J-15 - close up 2.jpg
    J-11 at Xian aka J-15 - close up 2.jpg
    95.2 KB · Views: 56
  • J-11 at Xian aka J-15 - close up 1.jpg
    J-11 at Xian aka J-15 - close up 1.jpg
    113.4 KB · Views: 495
  • J-15 Cut.jpg
    J-15 Cut.jpg
    45.9 KB · Views: 518

TAKHISS

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
56
Reaction score
5
Some new pics
 

Attachments

  • 1251874497_82623.jpg
    1251874497_82623.jpg
    26.7 KB · Views: 153
  • 1251874497_56508.jpg
    1251874497_56508.jpg
    130.1 KB · Views: 119

sferrin

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
14,005
Reaction score
2,412
So if you take a Flanker and cross it with a Super Hornet what do you get?
 

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
Hmmm ... I won't take these Su-33/J-11B + SH-mixes too seriously ... but just from today, reportedly from the CFTE at Xian-Yanliang (which on the other side is quite confusing, since the 1. flight was made in Shenyang and not at Xian. ???)

Deino
 

Attachments

  • J-15 maybe.JPG
    J-15 maybe.JPG
    1.2 KB · Views: 2,093

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
Just recently found pictures ... reportedly from Wuhu !!

I think it's getting better and better ... and mire interesting. Here esp. the Flanker - not sure if it's only a full-scale mock-up with the YJ-83 ASM.

Deino
 

Attachments

  • Wuhu carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 01.jpg
    Wuhu carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 01.jpg
    39.5 KB · Views: 106
  • Wuhu carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - closer Flanker 3 + Z-8.jpg
    Wuhu carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - closer Flanker 3 + Z-8.jpg
    23.8 KB · Views: 106
  • Wuhu carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - closer Flanker 2.jpg
    Wuhu carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - closer Flanker 2.jpg
    62 KB · Views: 95
  • Wuhu carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - closer Flanker 1.jpg
    Wuhu carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - closer Flanker 1.jpg
    34.2 KB · Views: 149
  • Wuhu carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 03.jpg
    Wuhu carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 03.jpg
    51.4 KB · Views: 68
  • Wuhu carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 02.jpg
    Wuhu carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 02.jpg
    48.2 KB · Views: 129

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
Sorry ... the title on the picture must be "Wuhan" not "Wuhu" .... all pictures seem to be from the "China Ship Design Institute" (no. 701) in Wuhan.
 

Attachments

  • China Ship Design Institute no.701 in Wuhan.jpg
    China Ship Design Institute no.701 in Wuhan.jpg
    146.8 KB · Views: 124

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
Upps ... correction again! These pictures posted above are actually at least one month old ... here are more recent ones !

Deino
 

Attachments

  • Wuhan carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 06 J-15.jpg
    Wuhan carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 06 J-15.jpg
    24.5 KB · Views: 82
  • Wuhan carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 05.jpg
    Wuhan carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 05.jpg
    24.5 KB · Views: 59
  • Wuhan carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 04.jpg
    Wuhan carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 04.jpg
    42 KB · Views: 49
  • Wuhan carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 03.jpg
    Wuhan carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 03.jpg
    37.2 KB · Views: 38
  • Wuhan carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 02.jpg
    Wuhan carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 02.jpg
    234.2 KB · Views: 40
  • Wuhan carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 01.jpg
    Wuhan carrier mock-up 11.10.09 - 01.jpg
    41.2 KB · Views: 49

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
MAybe that new stadion near it will help to locate it with Google-Earth !

Here's another picture from August 24. .... an impressive speed in building that thing. :eek:
 

Attachments

  • Wuhan carrier mock-up 24.08.09 - u.c.jpg
    Wuhan carrier mock-up 24.08.09 - u.c.jpg
    236.6 KB · Views: 84

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
14,989
Reaction score
4,728
Deino said:
MAybe that new station near it will help to locate it with Google-Earth !

Here's another picture from August 24. .... an impressive speed in building that thing. :eek:

They may have used some pre-fab/modular components.
 

SOC

I look at pictures all day
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
1,206
Reaction score
64
I'll look around and see if I can figure out where it is. The best object to use in those images is the soccer field. They show up relatively well around Wuhan. If this is in fact near Wuhan, it won't be in the middle of the city, either. A little more information on where they take these pictures would be helpful, but isn't absolutely necessary.
 

SOC

I look at pictures all day
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
1,206
Reaction score
64
Unlikely. This might be a cheap and simple way to figure out such things as on-deck operations and flow, and then train PLAN personnel. Or test the phased-array radars that they've left holes in the superstructure for.
 

Abraham Gubler

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
3,555
Reaction score
251
Clearly it’s not a takeoff and landing dummy as the rear has windows where the ramp strike area is which would result in a major internal structural fire with a crash. Also no WOD makes it unlikely it would actual work. As for flight deck training without active aircraft there is little benefit.

It does however have lots of similarities with the Moorestown, NJ “Cruiser in a Cornfield” used to develop AEGIS and test each weapon system that comes off the production line. Though attention to the outer mould line of the rest of the ship is of minimal importance compared to getting the electronic top hamper laid out in an accurate manner. So this could be a Chinese effort to get the Sky Watch radar system to work.

Or it could just be a fun and funky building. It would not be the first mock aircraft carrier built in China.
 

Thorvic

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
642
Reaction score
130
Something interesting is that they have been stripping down the superstructure of Varyag this year. The last photo ihave seen show the just the the stuctuer upto the the bridge and the funnel, everything else has been removed.

Has it been removed to fit out this new building to train and develop systems and crew for the new carriers they intend to build ?. Or is it so they can create the island with chinese systems for back fitting into Varyag when development completed.

I suspect the aircraft are on deck to train crews in aircraft handling, although there is no hanger and deck edge lifts to teach that aspect of the job.

G
 

Matej

Multiuniversal creator
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
2,614
Reaction score
184
Website
www.hitechweb.genezis.eu
Thanks for the confirmations. So now I can say that no, it is not the most stupid idea ever. Usual way to make a virtual flight deck is to place it on the ground, where is a lot of space around when you miss the simulated landing area during the training. Every flight accident on that building can cause complete destruction of the plane and killing a few people inside it.
 

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
14,989
Reaction score
4,728
Matej said:
Thanks for the confirmations. So now I can say that no, it is not the most stupid idea ever. Usual way to make a virtual flight deck is to place it on the ground, where is a lot of space around when you miss the simulated landing area during the training. Every flight accident on that building can cause complete destruction of the plane and killing a few people inside it.

Just a (probably very) wild guess, but could it be meant in part for simulations using so-called 'Enhanced Reality' technology? For those not familar with the term, it's an area of technology akin to virtual reality, but where virtual objects are superimposed on a real world location and interact with actors i.e. real world people and other entities/ events.

It wouldn't be suprising if they had access to at least some level of 'ER' especially given their industrial and other spying efforts, not to mention the fact that a fair bit of the necessary tech isn't exactly classified in the first place, although custom designed and built systems would seem to be the best choice for simulating something like carrier ops. A major sticking point of course would be raw computing power, given the nature of 'ER' simulations and current available tech, it would most likely have to be onsite or physically pretty close by.
 

SOC

I look at pictures all day
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
1,206
Reaction score
64
Well, the office/carrier has shown up on satellite imagery, so it isn't a total fabrication:

http://browse.digitalglobe.com/imagefinder/showBrowseMetadata?buffer=1.0&catalogId=101001000A099400&imageHeight=natres&imageWidth=natres
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,970
Reaction score
5,279
This is a brand new system integration lab built for the CSIC 701st Institute at Huangjia Lake development zone just south of Wuhan city, next to the Wuhan University of Science and Technology Huangjia Lake Campus, where some of the photos were taken.

http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index.php?topic=155.msg122748#msg122748
 

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
SOC said:
Well, the office/carrier has shown up on satellite imagery, so it isn't a total fabrication:

http://browse.digitalglobe.com/imagefinder/showBrowseMetadata?buffer=1.0&catalogId=101001000A099400&imageHeight=natres&imageWidth=natres

Ohhh ... YES, here it is !!! Thanks for posting that ling/image.

Deino

PS: Here's a comparison ....
 

Attachments

  • Wuhan + carrier mock-up.JPG
    Wuhan + carrier mock-up.JPG
    45.4 KB · Views: 175
  • Wuhan comparison GE vs. Digitalglobe.jpg
    Wuhan comparison GE vs. Digitalglobe.jpg
    56.6 KB · Views: 161

SOC

I look at pictures all day
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
1,206
Reaction score
64
J-13 would've possibly been a designator for a license built Su-30MKK.

The carrier thing is around 1,000 feet long, making it a full size mockup.
 

Abraham Gubler

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
3,555
Reaction score
251
next to the Wuhan University of Science and Technology Huangjia Lake Campus

Judging by its location and its complete impracticability to be used as an actual flight deck training system I would suggest that this is the Chinese version of the General Atomics Torrey Pines building now the home of the Torrey Pines Institute for Molecular Studies. When built in the 1950s this building was to replicate the size and shape of the future nuclear powered space ships that were planed at this time. The design was later *honoured/shamelessly stolen* by George Lucas for the Trade Federation space ship. So the staff and students of carrier systems studies at Wuhan can now house themselves in the shape they hope to build for the PLA-N.

http://www.tpims.org/overview_history.asp
 

utahbob

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
I am wondering what weight class and size this aircraft would be comparable to in the NATO/USAF inventory? F/A-18, F-22, F-15, Rafale, Typhoon or just an updated semi-stealthy, Chinese uber Flanker/Super Hornet mut.

TIA
 

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
Here are close-up pictures of that beast ...

http://war.news.163.com/photonew/00AQ0001/6762.html

Deino
 

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
Following the ongoing rumors about the J-15 - latest report says it just performed it's first ski-jump take off in Xian-Yanliang - there were also reports about the possibility that the PLA-NAF might get some J-11B in advance for the preparation.

These are aircraft at SAC on pre delivery !

Seems as if this rumoured second J-11B regiment will indeed go to the PLA-NAF as J-11BH ... and quite interesting, there seems to be also a trainer version ?? (or what do You think !)

Deino

PS: latest picture of the Ex-Varyag prior to the AESA-installations and reportedly in preparation to degaussing !
 

Attachments

  • Varyag 1.5.10 - large 2.jpg
    Varyag 1.5.10 - large 2.jpg
    824.6 KB · Views: 153
  • J-11BH part +.jpg
    J-11BH part +.jpg
    106.5 KB · Views: 240
  • J-11BH large.jpg
    J-11BH large.jpg
    432.3 KB · Views: 153
  • J-11B PLA-NAF rumour 1.jpg
    J-11B PLA-NAF rumour 1.jpg
    45.5 KB · Views: 134

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
;D
 

Attachments

  • J-11B + J-11BH + ... at SAC - large + clear.jpg
    J-11B + J-11BH + ... at SAC - large + clear.jpg
    421 KB · Views: 95

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
???
 

Attachments

  • maybe J-15.jpg
    maybe J-15.jpg
    45.9 KB · Views: 211

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
Right in that moment ... seems confirmed !!!! ;D
 

Attachments

  • J-15 prototype - clear 2.jpg
    J-15 prototype - clear 2.jpg
    258.8 KB · Views: 245
  • J-15 prototype - clear 1.jpg
    J-15 prototype - clear 1.jpg
    686.6 KB · Views: 149
  • J-15 prototype - clear 0.jpg
    J-15 prototype - clear 0.jpg
    25.6 KB · Views: 186

fightingirish

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,490
Reaction score
1,037
Deino, can you report some details?
Are the differences between the J-15 and J-11/Su-27 airframe?
The last pictures suggests, that the J-15 might have a new wing and new leading edge root extensions.
 

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
fightingirish said:
Deino, can you report some details?
Are the differences between the J-15 and J-11/Su-27 airframe?
The last pictures suggests, that the J-15 might have a new wing and new leading edge root extensions.


Notyet ...regarding the "new leading edge root extensions" ...maybe,but we've seen a similar "thing" on earlierJ-11B-prototypes - seems to be part of the redesigned LERX ... mabey with new composite materials´.

With the wings, You may be right .... it was rumored since some time .... but IMO it looks o.k.

Deino
 

Trident

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
1,153
Reaction score
494
Great stuff, Deino! Judging by the first of your last three photos, I'd actually say it has canards, like its Russian archetype. Similar story with what can be discerned of the nose landing gear and the shortened tail cone, right now this looks like a straight Su-33 copy.
 

lancer21

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
298
Reaction score
24
Very interesting news , thanks for the update& pics Deino. I wonder what they censored in that first pic tho , maby its the illusive J-XX( or J-12, or whatever the name is )? :p

Oh speaking of names , is "J-15" confirmed as official designation for the chinese naval Flanker ?

Thanks.
 

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
lancer21 said:
Oh speaking of names , is "J-15" confirmed as official designation for the chinese naval Flanker ?
....

I don't think that this is a XXJ or J-12 prototype ... too much wishfull thinking ! ;D

ANd reg. the designation, I don't know, but there was one report in a CHinese newspaper stating the delivery of China's first naval-fighter called J-15.

Mabe new picture ...

Deino
 

Attachments

  • J-15 landing + hook.jpg
    J-15 landing + hook.jpg
    28 KB · Views: 114

fightingirish

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,490
Reaction score
1,037
Maybe new picture ...
No, unfortunately that picture is fake. It only shows a PS-ed Su-33.
It seems, that it was first posted at the website "sinous.net" on March 27th, 2010.
Link: http://www.sinous.net/2010/03/chinas-j15-for-carrier/
 

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
fightingirish said:
Maybe new picture ...
No, unfortunately that picture is fake. It only shows a PS-ed Su-33.
It seems, that it was first posted at the website "sinous.net" on March 27th, 2010.
Link: http://www.sinous.net/2010/03/chinas-j15-for-carrier/

Confirmed fake ??

IMO - even if I'm not sure too - it shows a yellow prototype with the never seen before grey radome.

And to say the hook is psed ... I think the picture is too blurred !

But I agree with You ... there seems something to be strange, but hopefully we will receive clearer pictures within the next days. When we saw that "strange yellow thing" on the first set ot pictures some were also claiming it to be a fake ... and two days later the better ones came out.

Deino
 

Deino

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,915
Reaction score
914
;D ... edit: now :mad:

Hmmm ..
I'm no longer sure if this is the J-15 ... looks identical to this MKI !!
 

Attachments

  • J-15 bottom close.jpg
    J-15 bottom close.jpg
    56.8 KB · Views: 814
  • J-15 was only MKI.jpg
    J-15 was only MKI.jpg
    241.4 KB · Views: 148

Similar threads

Top