Sundog

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In the first two pics, it appears there is another one behind it in the same colors.
 

Deino

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:)
 

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SOC

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Sundog said:
In the first two pics, it appears there is another one behind it in the same colors.

It's not. Look at the caps on the vertical tail fins. The Su-33 series has different fin caps from basic FLANKERs. The jet in the background is a light-grey FLANKER of some sort but not a J-15.
 

chuck4

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One wonders why they bother. They are reproducing a 1970s russian airframe for their navy while building a indigenous 1990s airframe for their air force.
 

Deino

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SOC said:
It's not. Look at the caps on the vertical tail fins. The Su-33 series has different fin caps from basic FLANKERs. The jet in the background is a light-grey FLANKER of some sort but not a J-15.

Actually I'm not that sure !

You are correct that the fin cap is different to the Su-33, but since the J-15 has a cap nearly identical to the J-11B and this grey bird behind has the same (here I'm actually not 100% sure) I tend to say they are at least two J-15.

On Chinese Flankers there are three antennas on the right and only two on the left fin cap ... the newer updated J-11A and J-11B also feature an additional smaller one on both sides in fron of the lower one (see thin green circle) ... and since the fin on the bird in the background lacks that thing - which also the J-15 lacks - I think we can say it's a J-15.

Additionally never before a Flanker in China wore such a light-grey scheme ... and since all other "B" for the PLAAF are still dark-grey and all "BH" for the PLNAF are very light-grey/white ....
 

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Deino

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maybe ... but I think You don't need to build a special J-15-tetbed only to test these slightly different antenna-configuration, esp. when the prototype is already flying and all these systems could be tested on a standard J-11B (if they are so different to them in any way).

As such IMO it is a second J-15 or - somewtjing I hope for since some time - a nicer scheme on a standard J-11B.

Deino
 

fightingirish

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Deino, The best 'Ostereier' this year!*
Can you compare the wing in size and form with the Su-27, Su-33 or the J-11b so far?


*Ähh, I mean real easter Eggs, not software "easter Eggs' on movies (DVD's).
 

Deino

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fightingirish said:
Can you compare the wing in size and form with the Su-27, Su-33 or the J-11b so far?

Hmmm .... actually I think the J-11B uses simply the same wing as the original Su-27SK, if some composits were added into this latest version, I don't know ... and the J-15 would most likely featute the Su-33's wing.

Deino
 

SOC

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Deino said:
You are correct that the fin cap is different to the Su-33, but since the J-15 has a cap nearly identical to the J-11B and this grey bird behind has the same (here I'm actually not 100% sure) I tend to say they are at least two J-15.

It's not the antennae, it's the shape of the dielectric cap. The Su-33 and J-15 use an identical cap which is not cut off at nearly as sharp of an angle as that of any other FLANKER variant. The only airframes to ever feature that cap are the carrier-based FLANKERs. The airframe in the background has the same cap as an Su-27SK, J-11, J-11A, J-11B, etc.
 

Deino

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Again ... an interesting note; THANKs. But in mind of that quite angled position of the bird behind I'm really not sure if it is possible to distinguish a regular Flanker's from the Su-33/J-15's fin cap.

Deino
 

flateric

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an 'inspirational source' ;)
 

SOC

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Deino said:
Again ... an interesting note; THANKs. But in mind of that quite angled position of the bird behind I'm really not sure if it is possible to distinguish a regular Flanker's from the Su-33/J-15's fin cap.

Deino

It's merely a case of photo interpretation. Trust me, it's a hell of a lot easier to figure this out then to rely on satellite imagery!

As for the additional smaller antenna "in front of the other one" - here's a whole mess of SinoFLANKERs lacking that particular antenna.
 

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Deino

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flateric said:
an 'inspirational source' ;)

Very interesting ! But do You know what prototype this is ? Is it the rumoured T-10K-3 ?? ... and if YES, is it in China ?


SOC said:
It's merely a case of photo interpretation. Trust me, it's a hell of a lot easier to figure this out then to rely on satellite imagery!

Yupp, now I'm convinced. Thanks and regarding Your known capability to analyse, in "most" cases I trust You.

As for the additional smaller antenna "in front of the other one" - here's a whole mess of SinoFLANKERs lacking that particular antenna.

Again, thanks a lot for pointing to that detail, I never notived ... but then why do only the updated J-11A feature this thing !??

Deino
 

rousseau

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The first available image stole from other forum. :D
 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_141vRZlRJM&feature=player_embedded
 

LowObservable

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Looking at the photo, something occurs to me...

All Su-27 family members share an unusual feature - as the MLG extends, a stabilizing bar attached to the leg engages a fitting in the lower corner of the engine nacelle. (When we first saw good pictures of the Su-27, we had all kinds of speculation as to what it was.) It's a good idea - it can take a lot of bending/braking loads off the upper part of the leg and the main trunnions.

The only other aircraft that does this, as far as I know, is the F-14...

I wonder if a CV version was envisaged from the start of the program?
 

fightingirish

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Is this the first aircraft of the Chinese Su-27 family (J-11 and J-15) with an refuelling probe and moved IRST?
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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LowObservable said:
Looking at the photo, something occurs to me...

All Su-27 family members share an unusual feature - as the MLG extends, a stabilizing bar attached to the leg engages a fitting in the lower corner of the engine nacelle. (When we first saw good pictures of the Su-27, we had all kinds of speculation as to what it was.) It's a good idea - it can take a lot of bending/braking loads off the upper part of the leg and the main trunnions.

The only other aircraft that does this, as far as I know, is the F-14...

I wonder if a CV version was envisaged from the start of the program?

Pretty much, yes.
 

Deino

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J-15 now with WS-10 TH confirmed !!!

edit ! correction
 

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Deino

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fightingirish said:
Photo: Tandem seat J-15 @ alert5.com


Still uncertain, could it be just a new Su-30SM? ??? :-\

To admit I think that's a SM and not the long rumoured J-15S since it features the stndard Russian wing-tip pylons (even if the J-16 has them too ??? ) and IMO it looks like having a long sting.

Waiting for more ...

Deino


PS: On the other side the primer colour is different !
 

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Deino

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I think that's simply a J-16 !!!
 

Deino

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fightingirish said:
I thought, the J-11BS and J-16 don't have canards.

Ohhh ... YES, I think I need a break from everything related to China, but to admit these days are just so interesting.

Deino


OFF-topic but another idea ... wasn't it widely reported that the Y-20's unveiling (or even first flight) might be "coordinated" with the 18th Congress of the Chinese Communist Party", which is scheduled to start in Beijing on November 8, 2012.

;) : So we might expect another surprise in nearly one week ????
 

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fightingirish said:
Still uncertain, could it be just a new Su-30SM? ??? :-\
It is not SM. If it is Russian made, MKI or MKA. If Chinese, then congrats to them, but this would be first two seater with canards for them.
 

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The nozzle droops, which means it vectors. AFAIK, This would be totally a first on any Chinese su-27 family aircraft, and a much bigger deal than a 2seater version of canard su-27 derivative.


Also this nozzle looks like the WS-10, not Al-31. This means the Chinese managed to produce a domestic thrust vectoring engine. This is an even bigger deal with implications for the j-20 and J31.


Also, I don't think it's a J-15 derivative. J-15 is based on su-33 which had double slotted flaps for low carrier approach speed. This plane seem to have simple flaps like normal land based su-27 family aircraft.
 

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I think we need to be sure of which aircrfat is meant !

The two images I posted are a member of the MKI/MKA family (and not the SM) ... but the image fightingirish posted CAN't be a J-15S due to (see attachment) ....

Deino
 

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I was refering to the two images you posted. I thought they were Russian Su-30MKIs, but then I noticed the engines exhaust nozzles didn't look like AL-31s. Instead they looked like those on the WS-10.
 

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Second try to make myself a fool ....

http://www.cjdby.net/junbeidongtai/2012-11-03/military-1233.html

超级大本营军事网消息,中国海军歼-15S型双座双发重型舰载战斗机于11月3日9时55分在北方某地成功首飞,该机是在国产歼-15的基础上而生产一型舰载战机,根据超大消息,该机具有空中伙伴加油能力。

歼-15S于10:06分左右顺利降落,整个首飞过程历时10分钟左右,至少在机场上方绕场4周,这是继10月31日,310工程“鹘鹰”01机首飞后,北方某地的第二架新型战机首飞。

从目前的情况来看,对于急需舰载战斗机的中国航母编队而言,如果想快速的获得一款双座型舰载机,那么采用成熟串列双座技术的歼-15S则是现有情况下的首选。同时,双座型使得歼-15舰载战斗机得以向更加广泛的多用途发展,除了大家熟悉的空战、攻击等任务外,还有一个必备的就是伙伴加油能力。

采用了串列双座技术的歼-15舰载战斗机,一方面利于提高远程巡逻的效率,一方面也利于新飞行员的战斗转换,同时减少长时间飞行给飞行员带来的压力,有效提升空中作战的效能。对于中国这样一个从未自行设计建造过航母,同时也未使用过航母的国家来说,首艘航母平台的舰载机首先要考虑的便是“成熟实用”,而不是要求一定要非常先进。我们相信,在通过“辽宁”号航母和歼-15战斗机的培养和训练之后,我们必将会发展自己的大型航母和四代机的舰载型。
 

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fightingirish

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Google Translate tells me, that first flight was on November 3rd at 09.55h local time and it took about 10 minutes.


Edit1:

Shenyang’s new J-15S tandem seat carrier-borne fighter made its maiden flight today at 0955. The aircraft flew four orbits around the airfield solo before landing at 1006.

Source: http://alert5.com/2012/11/03/photo-first-flight-of-shenyang-j-15s-twin-seat-carrier-borne-fighter/


Edit2: Picture as an attachment deleted, because it proved to be fake! :-[
 

Deino

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But this image again is a FAKE based on this one !!
 

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Deino

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... some more ...
 

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fightingirish

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Deino, you wrote a great article about the J-15 and Chinese Carrier Force in the latest February 2013 issue of Combat Aircraft Monthly. :)
 

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