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Sänger antipodal bomber

moin1900

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Hi everybody

Here the Sänger antipodal bomber
http://www.luft46.com/misc/sanger.html
I am searching for details of the armament !
Are there any projects ?

Many Thanks for all replies in advance
 

Michel Van

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so fare the project went:

A central bomb bay for one 3629 kg (8000 lb) free falling bomb,
no defensive armament.

with speed of 22100 km/h (13724 mph) very hard to hit
also very hard to aim with bomb with this speed
 

bluedonkey99

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1/144 Unicraft do one, although their mould is getting very poor

1/72 sharkit some Luft'46 and some Sov'46 http://renax.club.fr/sharkit/sharkithome/sharkithome.htm

1/100 kington vac works / warm plastics http://www.warmplastic.com/s-b.html

1/285 Majic miniatures do one , they also do other Nazi Saucers etc (also in 1/600 scale)

1/288 Revell did a kit with mounted probe, mainly found on evilbay

1/48 Antares resin kit

I would think that there are more out there....
 

moin1900

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Some Paper Models
http://universoheinkel.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html
http://www.tinpaper.net/sanger.html
http://renax.club.fr/sharkit/freefiles/freefiles.htm
Here are three types of bombs
www.astronautix.com/data/saenger.pdf ( Page 129 )
a 30 t bomb, 11,20m lenght
a 5 t bomb , 6,16m lenght
a 1 t bomb, 3,60m lenght
Now I am searching for pictures or drawings of these bombs.
Many Thanks in advance
 

moin1900

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Here informations about the 30 t bomb
http://renax.club.fr/sharkit/Sanger/ArticlJung.htm
It should be a piggy-back bomb ?

Here the 30 t bomb is known as SB 30000 !
http://www.heinrich-jung-verlag.de/buecher/sieges1a.htm
Maybe someone own this book ?
Many Thanks
 

Michel Van

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there is no way that the "Silbervogel" can carry a 30 tons bomb and that piggy-back !

the payload was 5000kg bomb, more can not carry "Silbervogel"
for 30000 kg payload "Silbervogel" need a complete new design.
 

moin1900

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To Justo: Thanks a lot !
But why is there a concept for a 30 t bomb ?
Maybe it should be a concept like the postwar Sänger I ?
Many greetings
 

Michel Van

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moin1900 said:
But why is there a concept for a 30 t bomb ?

there even 60 tons bomb rumors, but that are most Internet hoax

there also Keldysh Bomber based on Silbervogel
but that has only 8000 kg payload.
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/kelomber.htm
 

moin1900

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Thanks again Justo ! The source ?

"The 30t bomb can penetrate 110m soil or 10m reinforced concrete."
"It is 11,20m long and have a diameter of 1,4m."
If someone own a picture or drawing of this bomb
Please send it.
How should the Sänger bomber carry this big bomb ?
"For the planned test drops there was a expedition planned from Norway to Greenland !"
Why ?

Many greetings and thanks a lot !

If someone own this book
http://www.geocities.com/unicraftmodels/books.htm
Maybe there is a drawing or picture ? Then please reply.
 

Antonio

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If someone own this book
http://www.geocities.com/unicraftmodels/books.htm

Beware, that books are pure fake/fantasy/invention/not serious (and really expensive too)
 

Michel Van

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Justo Miranda said:
Sorry , unidentified source ...

the second Picture show the Keldysh Bomber

for the german text, the Bomb don't fit inside the Sänger Bomber
I think the text is hoax
 

Grzesio

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I think there's no need to be excesively excited about the Silbervogel project details. ;) Because it was just an initial study with no details at all. Interesting observations are made in "Deutsche Raketenflugzeuge und Raumtransporter-Projekte" by Koelle, Sacher and Grallert. The Silbervogel performances were calculated with completely unrealistic empty weight of 10 000 kg by 90 000 kg fuel weight. Even by today standards the empty weight was underestimaded over 2.5 times, of course much much more when WW2 era technologies are in question. The bottom line is, the Silbervogel would have never reached its fantastic wannabe speed and range.
What's more, the aircraft speed and range was strongly dependent of the bomb weight. Even if we accept 10 tonnes empty weight, speed of 21 600 km/h and some 20 000 km range would be possible with only minimal load of 300 kg (!). 4800 kg load would reduce the speed to 18 000 km/h and range to 12 200 km, while with a 31 800 kg bomb only 7200 km/h speed and 1528 km range would be possible.

Regards

Grzesio
 

Meteorit

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moin1900 said:
P.S.
If someone own this book
http://www.geocities.com/unicraftmodels/books.htm
Maybe there is a drawing or picture ? ??? ::)
Then please please reply. :)

Okay, I confess, I have that book. And yes, I am (and was, when I bought it) aware of what pometablava said (though obviously not entirely fake - there really were He 177 bombers and Type XXI submarines for example - but anyway... ::) )
However, the bad news is I don't have a scanner, the good news is the bomb as depicted in pictures of a scale model made by the author is very simplistic, basically just a cylinder. No fins or other control surfaces. I made a quick sketch with Paint that should portray the basic idea. And remember that the author doesn't give his sources for the bomb shape, I suspect he may have just 'invented' it himself.
 

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Justo Miranda

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Meteorit said:
moin1900 said:
P.S.
If someone own this book
http://www.geocities.com/unicraftmodels/books.htm
Maybe there is a drawing or picture ? ??? ::)
Then please please reply. :)
Okay, I confess, I have that book.

My story is even sadder; I bought all the Amun-Verlag books in the believe that I might be able to learn something
 

Justo Miranda

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Grzesio said:
I think there's no need to be excesively excited about the Silbervogel project details. ;) Because it was just an initial study with no details at all. Interesting observations are made in "Deutsche Raketenflugzeuge und Raumtransporter-Projekte" by Koelle, Sacher and Grallert. The Silbervogel performances were calculated with completely unrealistic empty weight of 10 000 kg by 90 000 kg fuel weight. Even by today standards the empty weight was underestimaded over 2.5 times, of course much much more when WW2 era technologies are in question. The bottom line is, the Silbervogel would have never reached its fantastic wannabe speed and range.
What's more, the aircraft speed and range was strongly dependent of the bomb weight. Even if we accept 10 tonnes empty weight, speed of 21 600 km/h and some 20 000 km range would be possible with only minimal load of 300 kg (!). 4800 kg load would reduce the speed to 18 000 km/h and range to 12 200 km, while with a 31 800 kg bomb only 7200 km/h speed and 1528 km range would be possible.

Regards

Grzesio

Hi Grzegorz,

I am looking for information on the 20 mm German rocket "Pfeil" that you can see in the attached file.
I think that it is the same than the one you have drawn in the second "Rheinkind" project at your website.
The 105 mm carrier rocket contained 12 "Pfeil" in its warhead and should be shot from a Me 262.
The "Pfeil" was also used in designing the Enzian E-4 warhead that contained 550 units. There must be a drawing somewhere but it was omitted in the following available edition of the book "German Explosive Ordnance".

The first "Rheinkind" project at your website was the "Projeckt Planet", a 97 mm carrier rocket and seven 30 mm peripheral rockets with Mk 108 ammo-warhead.
I would need some reference measures to try and scale draw them. Could you help me, please?

Regards,
Justo
 

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Orionblamblam

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Meteorit said:
However, the bad news is I don't have a scanner, the good news is the bomb as depicted in pictures of a scale model made by the author is very simplistic, basically just a cylinder. No fins or other control surfaces. I made a quick sketch with Paint that should portray the basic idea. And remember that the author doesn't give his sources for the bomb shape, I suspect he may have just 'invented' it himself.

Looks a *lot* like the bomb I included in my 1/72 scale model kit of the antipodal bomber a decade ago:
http://www.ninfinger.org/models/parttime/72sanger.html
ptm059.jpg


The bomb was based off of text description in the "Rocket Drive for Long Range Bombers" report. Sanger gave the basic dimensions and geometry, and pointed out that fins would simp'y burn off, so it didn't have any.
 

zerstorer1946

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Hi all, im looking into scratchbuilding my own kit of the sanger "silverbird" rocket bomber.
i really need some good scale drawings...can anyone help? ?
:-\
thanks.
 

Orionblamblam

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zerstorer1946 said:
Hi all, im looking into scratchbuilding my own kit of the sanger "silverbird" rocket bomber.
i really need some good scale drawings...can anyone help? ?
:-\
thanks.

Why.... yes I can.

http://www.up-ship.com/eAPR/pv5n6.htm

v5n6anim.gif
 

mz

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I've long been interested in the engines.
Sänger was working on water cooled engines, and the steam was used to drive turbines afaik. I don't know if this expander cycle was enough or if a gas generator was used as well.
This is different from the A-4 having separate hydrogen peroxide gas generators for the turbopump turbines.
There is a pdf about it:
A ROCKET DRIVE FOR LONG RANGE BOMBERS
(Über einen Raketenantrieb für Fernbomber)
at astronautix:
http://www.astronautix.com/data/saenger.pdf

It's very bad quality though, anybody have a tip on how to extract the plain text so it's more readable?
 

Justo Miranda

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Here some Silbervogel stuff
 

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mz

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Thank you!
So no gas generator - pure expander cycle.
The 100 bar Sänger engine would have been from a different world compared to the 15 bar A4 one.
 

archipeppe

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My contribution about the topic.
 

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miraglia

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My model - Silverbird + rocket sled + rail

CAD - Autodesk Inventor
CAM - Roland MDX-20

Miraglia
www.edgeofspace.org
 

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miraglia

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Competitors of Silverbird
A9/A10.........

Miraglia
www.edgeofspace.org
 

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miraglia

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Videos

(Silverbird)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_7r533moXo&list=UUz-HTLSSd99F9hJcZmfkx-Q&index=20

(A9/A10)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKDK33Xv_HM&list=UUz-HTLSSd99F9hJcZmfkx-Q
 

jetboy

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H1,i see the A9/10/11 Has reared its head again,i can post pics of the annigrand version if you,d like?
Don
 

jetboy

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Justo Miranda said:
Sorry , unidentified source ...
HI, I had to look twice at that,it so looks like the JINDVIK,missile/drone,with wingtip tanks,sensors,....cheers Don
 
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Wingknut

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Hope these aren't old news - snapshots from YouTube documentary on Sänger antipodal bomber:
The Antipodal Bomber in Trauen - Der Antipodengleiter von Trauen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKLOTtT8k44
 

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richard

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A 1936 article about the Sänger proposal ...
 

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antigravite

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archipeppe said:
richard said:
A 1936 article about the Singer proposal ...

Good find, even in Italian!!!

Thanks a lot

Yes, thank you. Very good find. I had very close connections to Sänger's son, Hartmut (who passed away in december 2015). We shared a lot but we never discussed this early article. Although I had privileged access to all archives for a research project. Thank you again.
A.
 

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antigravite said:
Yes, thank you. Very good find. I had very close connections to Sänger's son, Hartmut (who passed away in december 2015). We shared a lot but we never discussed this early article. Although I had privileged access to all archives for a research project. Thank you again.
A.

About eight years ago I met Hartmut. German TV was doing a special about spaceflight and for some reason Hartmut suggested that they interview me. So for reasons that make no sense to me they flew me over to Germany and I appeared on German TV. Hartmut then gave me a watch that I still wear today. What I did not realize at the time was that it was a very good watch. So Hartmut's a cool guy in my book. I was sorry to hear of his passing.
 

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