Messerschmitt Me 309 Development & Politics by Dan Sharp and Calum E. Douglas

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Messerschmitt Me 309 Development & Politics by Dan Sharp & Calum E. Douglas

Chosen in 1941 to replace the Bf 109 as the Luftwaffe’s standard front-line fighter, Messerschmitt’s innovative Me 309 embodied a wealth of hard-won experience from the Battle of Britain. Its sturdy tricycle undercarriage would make landings safer, its capacious wings could accommodate much heavier weaponry, its retractable radiator would make it aerodynamically clean, its pressure cabin would allow high-altitude operations and its ejection seat would help preserve the Luftwaffe’s most precious asset – its pilots.

All of this was made possible by a fuselage specifically tailored to accommodate Germany’s newest and most powerful fighter engines: Daimler-Benz’s DB 603 and Junkers’ Jumo 213. Production of up to 800 Me 309s a month had been planned by May 1942 – more than all other German fighter types combined. Yet the type’s advancement from prototype to full series production was reduced to a crawl, not by technical difficulties but by political in-fighting, deception and manipulation behind closed doors.

The Me 309 was set up to fail – doomed to join a lost generation of mid-war Luftwaffe combat aircraft alongside types such as Focke-Wulf’s Fw 190 C and Junkers’ Ju 288 – but why and by whom? Messerschmitt Me 309 Development & Politics, the first book ever written solely about this aircraft, sets out its full history – from its forerunners and commissioning to its eventual cancellation and sale to the Japanese military.

Using contemporary documents, authors Dan Sharp and Calum E. Douglas explain and explore the development and eventual failure of this fascinating ‘secret project’.

200 pages
£35

Pre-orders are now open here:

www.mortonsbooks.co.uk

BOOK : MESSERSCHMITT ME 309 DEVELOPMENT & POLITICS | Mortons Books

Book : Messerschmitt Me 309 Development & Politics
www.mortonsbooks.co.uk www.mortonsbooks.co.uk
 
gatoraptor said:
Will this also cover its derivative, the Me 609 (or Me 309Z)?
Click to expand...

Yes, it covers the Me 309 Zw. 'Me 609' was used for the Me 262 programme at Regensburg, for some reason, and was never applied to the twin-fuselage 309.
 
Okay, you've got me hooked. That sounds like quite a story. Given some of the nonsense I've seen firsthand in the US aerospace industry, I can just imagine what it was like in mid-war Germany,
 
elmayerle said:
Okay, you've got me hooked. That sounds like quite a story. Given some of the nonsense I've seen firsthand in the US aerospace industry, I can just imagine what it was like in mid-war Germany,
Click to expand...

Wait till you hear about the bitter rivalry, distrust and mutual antagonism which existed between Messerschmitt's Augsburg and Regensburg facilities. They fought what amounted to a low-key civil war over the Me 309.
 
I had read before the primary reason for the Me-309's failure was that it had rather mediocre performance but I'm guessing that account isn't entirely accurate? Such infighting has not been mentioned on the limited coverage there has been of the aircraft but sounds like it played a major part.
 
newsdeskdan said:
Wait till you hear about the bitter rivalry, distrust and mutual antagonism which existed between Messerschmitt's Augsburg and Regensburg facilities. They fought what amounted to a low-key civil war over the Me 309.
Click to expand...
Damn, the nastiness between Pawnee and Wallace divisions of Cessna, on opposite sides of Wichit, KS, were a surprise when I worked there some 45-odd years ago.
 
I am experiencing frustration in attempting to order from Morton's. Neither payment option from the Checkout page is working and the problems seem to be with their website. This is most vexacious!! Anyone else having problems this way?
 
I find Mortons to be a bit 'old' style tbh, they send packages out without advisory, diffucult to keep an eye on the order and if I ask their first response is "So, you want to cancel the order!" which is both disingenuous and passive aggresive. Pointless imho.

It will not get them a lot of repeat business from me tbh.
 
I have found that some sites that will not work on my Chrome browser will work on Edge or Firefox. Maybe try a different browser.
 
Hi,

elmayerle said:
I am experiencing frustration in attempting to order from Morton's. Neither payment option from the Checkout page is working and the problems seem to be with their website. This is most vexacious!! Anyone else having problems this way?
Click to expand...

When I had pre-ordered Dan's Me 262, Morton's kept me waiting for several months and never delivered. They claimed twice to have shipped a book to my address, but none ever arrived. No tracking either. Their website forgot my address and subsequently would not get past the "enter a new one" screen, ever.

I got my money back from Paypal and ordered the book from Amazon.

There's an older thread on Morton's here:


The experience was so weird that the only explanation I could come up with is that they are not actually in the business of selling books to consumers.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)
 
I strongly recommend getting on a personal contact via Fb Messenger with Steven O'hara. The webshop is indeed a strange experience compared to almost any other bookseller.
 
Hi Pasoleati,

Pasoleati said:
I strongly recommend getting on a personal contact via Fb Messenger with Steven O'hara. The webshop is indeed a strange experience compared to almost any other bookseller.
Click to expand...

Steven was involved, I still didn't get my book from Morton's. No shipment was ever lost before when shipping to my address, but it happens twice when Morton's sends me something, and they have no tracking information at all, and don't care to investigate? Go figure ...

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)
 
Dan, did you review Karl Baur's biography, 'A Pilot's Pilot, Karl Baur, Chief Test Pilot for Messerschmitt'. He test flew the Me-309 and demonstrated it for the Luftwaffe brass.
 
Mark24 said:
Dan, did you review Karl Baur's biography, 'A Pilot's Pilot, Karl Baur, Chief Test Pilot for Messerschmitt'. He test flew the Me-309 and demonstrated it for the Luftwaffe brass.
Click to expand...

I did - published back in March on my Twitter account. I'm astonished that you saw it! It's very brief.
Spoiler alert for those who didn't see it (link below) - don't waste your money on A Pilot's Pilot, Karl Baur, Chief Test Pilot for Messerschmitt by Isolde Baur.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1639956202598572033
View: https://twitter.com/TheRealDanSharp/status/1639956202598572033
 
The South American River Trading Inc. just revised my delivery date from August to January.

I hope it's not under extended security review....

633 sqn gestapo.JPG
 
LowObservable said:
The South American River Trading Inc. just revised my delivery date from August to January.

I hope it's not under extended security review....

View attachment 704747
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August was always a bit... optimistic. However, I can assure you that progress is ongoing. We're currently aiming to get the book printed in October.
 
Dear Dan,
just finished reading your magnificent Me 262 book. It is truly the standard reference to it! So now I can´t wait for the upcoming (and already) preordered Me 309 book. All of your publications concerning the "Luftwaffe Secret Projects" topic raise the subject matter to a very high level.
So may I dare to make a wishlist on Luftwaffe projects I really like to know more about? Here it is (in order of importance to me):
Ar 240 / 440
Ar 232
Ar 234 (Variants from C to F and other projects incl. swept-wings, weapons ...)
All about Hütter
He 100
He 280
Ju 89
 
newsdeskdan said:
August was always a bit... optimistic. However, I can assure you that progress is ongoing. We're currently aiming to get the book printed in October.
Click to expand...
Dan, What wing span dimensions do you show for the Me-309 v.1 (longer span wings), as opposed to the proposed production version, where it appears they shortened the wings ?
 
Mark24 said:
Dan, What wing span dimensions do you show for the Me-309 v.1 (longer span wings), as opposed to the proposed production version, where it appears they shortened the wings ?
Click to expand...

The Me 309's wing dimensions are covered in more detail than you would probably want in the book. Those wings seem to have been the subject of continuous discussion and the finer details of their design appear to have been revised numerous times during the course of the project's fairly lengthy lifespan. Messerschmitt continued to work on those wings, in fact, even after the Me 309 had been cancelled.
All these revisions and the reasons for them are in the book.
 
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athpilot said:
Dear Dan,
just finished reading your magnificent Me 262 book. It is truly the standard reference to it! So now I can´t wait for the upcoming (and already) preordered Me 309 book. All of your publications concerning the "Luftwaffe Secret Projects" topic raise the subject matter to a very high level.
So may I dare to make a wishlist on Luftwaffe projects I really like to know more about? Here it is (in order of importance to me):
Ar 240 / 440
Ar 232
Ar 234 (Variants from C to F and other projects incl. swept-wings, weapons ...)
All about Hütter
He 100
He 280
Ju 89
Click to expand...

Ar 240/440. That would be interesting and doable. There is a lot of material available, though few images, and I could certainly add a lot of detail to the type's history. Unfortunately, those documents are now less accessible than they have ever been.
Ar 232. Similarly, this would be doable, I think. I have some interesting and (I believe) previously unpublished images available - both drawings and photos.
Ar 234. The Smith/Creek book on this is fairly comprehensive. Unlike many other books on similar topics, try as I might, I've not found many areas where I could improve on it.
Huetter. I have a little more available on their designs than has been published but probably not enough for a full book.
He 100. Designed and developed by Heinkel during a period for which most of their documents are lost. So this is a definite 'no' from me, unless a new source of material appears.
He 280. Ditto - although I do have a few odds and ends on its development which I think are previously unknown/unpublished.
Ju 89. Again, this originated during a period for which few non-public documents are known to have survived. It will feature a little in my Secret Projects of the Luftwaffe Vol. 2 Bombers book, if/when I get around to completing it.
 
Hi Dan,

newsdeskdan said:
He 100. Designed and developed by Heinkel during a period for which most of their documents are lost. So this is a definite 'no' from me, unless a new source of material appears.
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Have you seen the documents from the former Pawlas archive which Erwin Wiedmer had up on deutscheluftwaffe.de for a couple of years? Nothing really decisive in there I guess, but interesting nevertheless.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)
 
newsdeskdan said:
The Me 309's wing dimensions are covered in more detail than you would probably want in the book. Those wings seem to have been the subject of continuous discussion and the finer details of their design appear to have been revised numerous times during the course of the project's fairly lengthy lifespan. Messerschmitt continued to work on those wings, in fact, even after the Me 309 had been cancelled.
All these revisions and the reasons for them are in the book.
Click to expand...
I've got the book on back order, so no need to sell me on it. I was just hoping you knew the overall span length of the of the longer span wing they used on it, that's all. It's typically reported as 36'3" US-Standard, but I don't know if that's correct or just a carry over from book to book. But if you don't know, you don't know, all keep looking.
 
Mark24 said:
I've got the book on back order, so no need to sell me on it. I was just hoping you knew the overall span length of the of the longer span wing they used on it, that's all. It's typically reported as 36'3" US-Standard, but I don't know if that's correct or just a carry over from book to book. But if you don't know, you don't know, all keep lookin
Click to expand...

Me 309 brochure circa August 1941 - wingspan 11m
Me 309 discussion at Messerschmitt 27.8.41 - plans to increase wingspan from 11m to 12m
Me 309 discussion at Messerschmitt 1.10.41 - significant changes to wing profile thickness
Me 309 wing-only drawing 11.11.41 - wingspan 10.99m
Me 309 data on production model from RLM report 1.1.42 - wingspan 11m
Me 309 V1-V3 schematic diagram 29.5.42 - wingspan 11m
Me 309 m. SC1000 und Aussenbehaelter (project) 19.11.42 - wingspan 11.75m
[Me 309 cancelled January 1943]
Me 309 V-V4 schematic diagram 3.9.43 - wingspan 11.04m

The Me 309 V1 had a wingspan of 11m (29.5.42) or 11.04m (3.9.43). It's likely that the difference was due to changes made between those two dates.
 
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newsdeskdan said:
Ar 240/440. That would be interesting and doable. There is a lot of material available, though few images, and I could certainly add a lot of detail to the type's history. Unfortunately, those documents are now less accessible than they have ever been.
Ar 232. Similarly, this would be doable, I think. I have some interesting and (I believe) previously unpublished images available - both drawings and photos.
Ar 234. The Smith/Creek book on this is fairly comprehensive. Unlike many other books on similar topics, try as I might, I've not found many areas where I could improve on it.
Huetter. I have a little more available on their designs than has been published but probably not enough for a full book.
He 100. Designed and developed by Heinkel during a period for which most of their documents are lost. So this is a definite 'no' from me, unless a new source of material appears.
He 280. Ditto - although I do have a few odds and ends on its development which I think are previously unknown/unpublished.
Ju 89. Again, this originated during a period for which few non-public documents are known to have survived. It will feature a little in my Secret Projects of the Luftwaffe Vol. 2 Bombers book, if/when I get around to completing it.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your detailed reply. Ar 240/440 would be very great. I´d buy it on the spot. You teased a little on that plane in a recent bookazine. Same goes for the Ar 232. I understand your arguments about the He 100 and Ju 89. I´m looking forward to the Vol. 2 Bombers book. Is there a way you could publish your findings on the He 280? And at the end one last wish: the Ju 288 would be a very fascinating subject. I could imagine, that it´s fate has some similarities to the Me 309.
 
What are the chances to purchase this from amazon when they are printing only 1000?
 
Hi Spicmart,

spicmart said:
What are the chances to purchase this from amazon when they are printing only 1000?
Click to expand...

Well ... I speculate, based on my prior semi-weird and unexplained experiences, amazon's purchasing power is such that their customers will receive the goods with a certain level of priority.

But I'm not an insider, only an amazed customer painting pictures in his mind what must be going on behind the facades for such experiences to be possible.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)
 
Just a quick note to say that work on this book is progressing.
For years, I ignored the Me 309. It seemed as though it had sprung out of thin air, bearing no visual inheritance from earlier Messerschmitt designs. Work progressed at a snail's pace, the nosewheel occluded the radiator on takeoff, it was out-turned by a 109 G in trials and then cancelled. Good riddance.
But working on my Me 262 book, I was forced to consider the origin of the Me 309, because its existence led to the Me 209, which was the Me 262's chief rival for production capacity during 1943.
In essence, the Me 309 took the concepts pioneered by the original (failed Fw 190 competitor) Me 209 fighter - particularly evaporative cooling and high wing loading - and used them to create a DB 603 vehicle. The 603 was the hot 'new' engine in early 1941 and suitably scaled airframes were needed to accommodate it. While it didn't share any parts with the 209, the 309 was the direct successor to that design. For that reason, there doesn't seem to have been a 'P XXXX' number for the 309. It literally went from 209 to 309 because it was a continuation of that 'project'.
And this time Messerschmitt beat the Focke-Wulf competitor, the Fw 190 C. So from early 1941 to early 1943 - two whole years of the war - the 309 was planned as the direct successor to the 109, the next standard Luftwaffe fighter. For much of that time, hard as it may be to believe, the 801-powered 190 hovered on the brink of cancellation because the overheating problem with its engine was seen as insurmountable.
As to the 309's cancellation - high wing loading generally equals greater speed in the air (with a suitable amount of engine power) but poor manoeuvrability, so the fact that the Me 309 V1 prototype could be out-turned by a 109 G must have been exactly what everyone at Messerschmitt's Project Office expected to happen. And the 309, with its prototype underpowered 603 engine and its trick retractable radiator fixed in the 'open' position, was still faster than the brand new production model 109 G it was tested against.
The 309's development potential must have been obvious - the 603 was clearly going to get more power and the 309 was specifically designed so that it could also take the Jumo 213 as an alternative if need be, without significant modification, making it a relatively versatile airframe.
So why exactly was it cancelled? The real story is somewhat more complex than has previously been reported. The book explains in detail using primary sources.
 
You could also say that Messerschmitt was not in many senses "wrong" to go for high wing loading/lower aerobatic capability, as that is where the broad technical trends were all going in the war. The final wartime fighters were mostly quite similar to that, becoming more and more "point and squirt". He does seem to have gotten a bit obsessed with the idea and perhaps gone on the wrong side of the line with it though. By a similar token though, you could also make the argument that many Allied fighters had lower wing loadings because they did have the luxury of a reasonable supply of reliable and powerful engines that Germany did not for much of the war, so they maybe felt a little less pressured to get every possible bit of speed out of their aircraft. This is however, merely conjecture on my part - and the counter argument to THAT is looking at stuff like the Spitfire Mk III, which was a lot more like a 109 in terms of wing loadings. Dowding said he didnt like it, because the wing loading meant the landing run was a lot longer than the normal SPitfire which he considered made it too dangerous for landing at night, he also thought the nearly squared off wing tips would lead ot friendly fire as it looked a bit "109-ey"

The Sea Fury is also another point in case, I was told that if you get an engine cut at low level you`ve probably had it unless you`re very lucky as quote: "It has the glide ratio of a sack of wet bricks"
 
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Calum Douglas said:
This is however, merely conjecture on my part - and the counter argument to THAT is looking at stuff like the Spitfire Mk III, which was a lot more like a 109 in terms of wing loadings. Dowding said he didnt like it, because the wing loading meant the landing run was a lot longer than the normal SPitfire which he considered made it too dangerous for landing at night, he also thought the nearly squared off wing tips would lead ot friendly fire as it looked a bit "109-ey"
Click to expand...

Dowding was probably in the right place to order two things:
- use the Spitfire III as day-fighter only
- revert to the 'normal' with tips as on other Spitfires

Unfortunately, Spitfire III never attained the production and service status.
 

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