R-33, R-37 and R-72/KS-172S-1 ALRAAM missiles

[Aeria Gloria]

Enough of this. @Squirrel @Aeria Gloria, your constant argument in multiple topics is irritating. @Squirrel cannot be persuaded from his beliefs by the use of logic or facts and it is illogical to keep trying.

You are correct and I apologize. I will stop.

The last thing I will say for Squirrel and others is that I will only attach this video as a parting gift for you to see how long R-27R/ER can take to get ready in a combat situation. I have seen claims of 1s ready times also but also 3-4s, it must be a considerable range. I counted 4s after lock here. It is interesting sparrow is practically identical in this regard. Or that even R-73/R-27T/ET can take up to 1-2s to get ready. It is interesting for the thread as a real life example from search to lock to impact, and you can even see the occasional clutter from the Pursuit mode. I would personally bet R-33 and anything of similar generation is the same. And of course, all missiles would get ready at the same time. Like MiG-29, I’m sure if you lock before Dr.max1 they will be ready for you by the time you get LA/LP. Same thing happens using SNP, and I’m sure MiG-31 with phased array does same thing.

View: https://youtu.be/gDx-fp2HINw

 

[Squirrel]

@overscan

Sorry.....

@Aeria Gloria

Yes ,it sometimes takes several sec to launch and we have data from Markovsky book ( you often mention him) ..

''После получения целеуказания Р-27Р готова к пуску через 1 — 1,5 с.''

"After receiving target's lock-on , the R-27R is ready for launch within 1 to 1.5 seconds."

Page 41: https://ukr.bulletpicker.com/pdf/советские авиационные ракеты воздух-воздух.pdf

About R-33 ( interesting, there is no launch range data in the mentioned book) ,as wrote, all four under 10 sec where PESA radar has its additional transmitter only for lock-on/Ill. For comparison during 'six on six' test with F-14A/AIM-54A from 1973, it took 38 sec for launch of all six of them. Mathematically about 6 seconds for one,just like the case with R-40R and the MiG-25P.

The story of when a US Navy F-14 Tomcat fired six AIM-54 Phoenix missiles against six different targets simultaneously: the six-on-six missile shot test - The Aviation Geek Club

The story of when a US Navy F-14 Tomcat fired six AIM-54 Phoenix missiles against six different targets simultaneously

theaviationgeekclub.com

 

[LukaszK]

Just two cents from me. I am talking about R-27R and N-019.
Please take in account that during SNP mode system not only detects the most dangerous target and estimate range of missile.
It also start to do some missile preparation for launch . See for example section 3.4 in Mig-29 "avionic book" - section about algorithms, for radar:



"формирования команды ПОДГОТОВКА (РКП);"

"
Алгоритм РКП, как алгоритм ПО, включается в работу в режимах
обзора и сопровождения цели при наличии признаков выбора к приме-
нению ракет Р-27РГ. Команда ПОДГОТОВКА (подготовка ракеты к пус-
ку) формируется при нажатии летчиком кнопки МРК-ЗАХВАТ-ПЗ
(Прзх =Г). Если в течение 3 мин с момента выдачи команды
ПОДГОТОВКА (Сьодг = Г) команда А не поступит, команда ПОДГОТОВКА
снимается; при снятии команды А (когда произошел сброс цели с
сопровождения) команда ПОДГОТОВКА не должна сниматься в течение
40 с после сброса цели. Алгоритм РКП выдает команду ПОДГОТОВКА 2
(Слод2 ), логика формирования которой будет рассмотрена в
п.4.4.Т. Частота счета алгоритма РКП Ач = 10 Гц,"


"
The RKP algorithm, like the PO algorithm, is activated in the target acquisition or tracking modes when there are indications that the R-27R1 missiles are selected for use. The PREPARATION command (prepare the missile for launch) is generated when the pilot presses the MRK-ZAKHVAT-PZ (Przx = G) button. If command A is not received within 3 minutes of issuing the PREPARATION command (Sjodg = G), the PREPARATION command is cancelled. If command A is cancelled (when the target is released from tracking), the PREPARATION command should not be cancelled for 40 seconds after the target is released. The RKP algorithm issues the PREPARATION 2 (Slod2) command, the logic for generating which will be discussed in Section 4.4.T. The RKP algorithm's counting frequency is Ach = 10 Hz."

 

[Aeria Gloria]

Just two cents from me. I am talking about R-27R and N-019.
Please take in account that during SNP mode system not only detects the most dangerous target and estimate range of missile.
It also start to do some missile preparation for launch . See for example section 3.4 in Mig-29 "avionic book" - section about algorithms, for radar:

Yes but it’s not clear to me how this 40 seconds exactly manifests. It makes sense but if you turn radar off the missile shouldn’t fire.

Either way, I would take this discussion to the R-27 or MiG-29 thread Lukas

 

[Squirrel]

Question: is there any additional data/ info about IAF purchasing 400 'R-37ME' ( Izdeliye 620 in fact ) for their Su-30MKI ? Decision was made almost immediately after operation Sindoor from May 2025. First news about that was from June 2025.

 

[lancer21]

Do you have a link to that article by any chance?

 

[Squirrel]

Do you have a link to that article by any chance?

Some of the sources:

Missile Race Heats Up: Russia Offers Hypersonic BVRAAM R-37M to India as PL-15 Haunts Subcontinental Skies - Defence Security Asia

In a move that could redefine South Asia’s airpower balance, Russia has reportedly offered India its most lethal long-range air-to-air weapon—the hypersonic R-37M—for integration with the Indian Air Force’s frontline Su-30MKI fighter fleet.

defencesecurityasia.com

India’s Strategic Acquisition of the R-37M Hypersonic Missile - Regional Defense Impact

India's acquisition of Russia's R-37M hypersonic missile is a huge leap in air defense capabilities. With a Mach 6 speed and extended range, it could change the balance of power in the region, particularly affecting neighboring countries such as Pakistan,

www.iasgyan.in

Hm, official or not?

 

[lancer21]

Certainly would make sense as an immediate stopgap especially after Sindoor, but this being India, who knows. I imagine the radars on the Su-30MKIs must at least be brought to the Su-30SM2 standard in order to use the R-37.

 

[Squirrel]

Certainly would make sense as an immediate stopgap especially after Sindoor, but this being India, who knows. I imagine the radars on the Su-30MKIs must at least be brought to the Su-30SM2 standard in order to use the R-37.

N011M 'Bars-M' with 400km max detection range in the High PRF working mode ( combat mode PPS). Quite enough for R-37ME combat usage.

 

[Aeria Gloria]

I always heard that while yes it can be up to 400 km in some modes like velocity scan or extremely small FOV searches but the usual RWS/TWS will give fighter detection at 120-140 km PPS and 60 km ZPS. Which is what I think they would use in combat. But that’s just me I’ve also seen 250-330 km PPS given for some other mode, but also max 200 km tracking range lol.

If we’re attaching timelines here’s another lol

 

[Squirrel]

It was really big potential ,six R-37's /Izd. 610 under the fuselage of MiG-31M ,No 057 blue .

 

[A12]

As for Kh-58 loft, I will tell you. It is same loft as basically every Soviet air to ground missile. The missile either flies level or climbs until a certain altitude.

Once it flies far enough that the look down angle to the target increases to 6-30 degrees (depending which missile we talk about), it then activates proportional guidance to curve down on target.
View attachment 803373

No. The Kh-58 has a completely different loft logic

 

[A12]

It was really big potential ,six R-37's /Izd. 610 under the fuselage of MiG-31M ,No 057 blue .

Yup! Shot distance 304 km (1994)

 

[Squirrel]

Must repeat this chart ...



I think that numbers/values 120km and 160km are not w/o the reason. Really don't know the origin of this chart and many others but there is some details which we must count on.In fact ,crew of the MiG-31 had/have the same task and procedures during patrols and possible interception missions like the pilots of MiG-29 and Su-27.So even before the N007 was turned on,RIO must determine the targets's size with the switch 'BAZA' according to data from the A-50 or NASU.So RIO must set the position on that switch : B,S,M or for the big,medium or small air target. In connection with that,he will get the given launch parameters.

If we talk about the old R-33 ,my opinion is that for the small target max authorised launch range will be 70 or even 90km ( we must keep on mind that N007 was developed to detect and track low flying CM's like Tomahawk with RCS only 0.3 sqm ). Fighter like MiG-21 has forward RCS 3sqm. Than for the medium target ,launch range is 120km and we know from the tests that they achieved engaging RC M-16/Tu-16 ( 19 sqm RCS) from about 120km. Bigger or even faster air target could be engaged from 160km ( of course with the parameter Dr max1).

For the 500 kg heavy AAM , with the burn phase of the dual-stage rocket engine 15-24sec and with 60sec controllable flight time ,straight flight only ,I think it was possible to achieve.