Hamburger HFB-209 & HFB-314 Projects

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
26 May 2006
Messages
33,008
Reaction score
12,531
Hi,

Does anyone hear about HFB-209 twin turboprop transport aircraft which
developed from CASA C-209 and HFB-314 airliner which intended to compete
the Caravelle ?.
 
Hi,

I get some info about HFB-209,it was low wing and seating
capacity was 48-54,and powered by two 3500 hp Allison
501D-13 engines.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1957/1957%20-%200993.html
 

Attachments

  • HFB-209.JPG
    HFB-209.JPG
    10.4 KB · Views: 1,424
.. and here's the HFB-314, even in two different layouts:
(from Flugwelt 4/1960)
 

Attachments

  • HFB-314-1.gif
    HFB-314-1.gif
    46.2 KB · Views: 1,474
  • HFB-314-2.gif
    HFB-314-2.gif
    50 KB · Views: 1,405
hesham said:
Hi,

I get some info about HFB-209,it was low wing and seating
capacity was 48-54,and powered by two 3500 hp Allison
501D-13 engines.

Sounds like a good turboprop replacement/competitor for the Convair 580/660 series, if that was what the airlines were looking for.
 
Thank you my dear Jemiba,

And for elmayerle, the HFB-209 was look like CASA C-209
project.
 
Hi,

An artist picture to HFB-314.
 

Attachments

  • HFB-314.JPG
    HFB-314.JPG
    15.6 KB · Views: 1,195
Hesham, thats from Flight International archives. Please give a reference!
 
Dear Boys & Girls, here is a "Secret Project" for you, the Hamburger Flugzeugbau HFB-209; a German airliner with Napier Eland or Allison 501 turboprop engines.

Actually, it's not "Secret", but it is a "Project"......

The cutting is from the 20th July 1957 issue of Les Ailes......

Terry (Caravellarella)......
 

Attachments

  • Hamburger HFB-209 - Les  Ailes No. 1,642 - 20th July 1957.......jpg
    Hamburger HFB-209 - Les Ailes No. 1,642 - 20th July 1957.......jpg
    118.7 KB · Views: 1,103
My dear Caravellarella,

I spoke about this aircraft before;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2062.msg17538.html#msg17538
 
Re: Hamburger Flugzeugbau GmbH HFB-314 jet airliner project......

Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article in French announcing cancellation of the Hamburger Flugzeugbau GmbH HFB-314 jet airliner "project"; the "German Caravelle", because of a lack of serious customer interest in face of continuing Sud Caravelle development and the imminent launch of the Boeing 727......

The article comes from the 16th December 1960 issue of Les Ailes......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 
More details:

HFB 209

Crew: 3-4
Passengers: 60
Engines: Napier Eland N EI.6 (2 x 2.575 kW)
Wing Span: 28.55 m
Length: 24.32 m
Height: 8.40 m
Wing Area: 89.4 sq m
Max Speed: 568 km/h
Cruise Speed: 512 km/h
Landing Speed: 156 km/h
Empty Weight: 10,950 kg
Take-off Weight: 20,500 kg
Ceiling: 9,600 m
Range: 2,000 km

HFB 314

Crew: 3-5
Passengers: 70-78
Engines: Rolls-Royce R141/11 (2 x 68.65 kN)
Wing Span: 28.45 m
Length: 36.25 m
Height: 9.04 m
Wing Area: 114.5 sq m
Max Speed: 975 km/h at 7,000 m
Cruise Speed: 570 km/h
Empty Weight: 12,100 kg
Take-off Weight: 50,250 kg
Operating Ceiling: 8,000-12,000 m
Max Range: 3,400 km

Source: Blohm & Voss Flugzeuge Seit 1933
by Manfred Griehl (Motorbuch Verlag 2011) ISBN 9783613032675
 
Hi,


the HFB-209.
 

Attachments

  • HFB.209.JPG
    HFB.209.JPG
    78.3 KB · Views: 208
There is an article about HFB 314 and HFB 209 in the magazine 'Flugzeug Classic', 04/2000 (September/ October), page 68-71.
All pictures featured in that article have been posted from other sources in more or less quality in this topic before.


Edit:
HFB 209 add
Source: http://www.fzt.haw-hamburg.de/pers/Scholz/dglr/hh/text_2008_10_09_HFB320.pdf
 

Attachments

  • HFB-209.jpg
    HFB-209.jpg
    91.3 KB · Views: 164
A model of the HFB-314 was shown in Flugwelt, April 1960:
 

Attachments

  • HFB-314.jpg
    HFB-314.jpg
    160.3 KB · Views: 900
The German magazine 'Klassiker der Luftfahrt' published an old 7 paged advertising brochure about the Turboprop-Airliner HFB-209.

Vergessenes Projekt der 50er Jahre
Der Turboprop-Airliner HFB-209
Der Hamburger Flugzeugbau als Teil der Schiffswerft Blohm & Voss suchte nach dem zweiten Weltkrieg wieder den Anschluß an die Luftfahrtindustrie und beteiligte sich zunächst an der Lizenzfertigung der Nord 2501 Noratlas.
Im Juli 1957 berichtete die Fachpresse erstmals über das neue Projekt HFB-209, das den im Einsatz befindlichen Convair-Linern Konkurrenz machen sollte. Außer der nachfolgenden kleinen Werbebroschüre ist über diesen Typ so gut wie nichts an die Öffentlichkeit gelangt.

Marton Szigeti/Archiv


Source: Klassiker der Luftfahrt: Vergessenes Projekt der 50er Jahre - Der Turboprop-Airliner HFB-209, January 14th, 2014
 

Attachments

  • HFB - 209 Prospekt -07.jpg.3260078.jpg
    HFB - 209 Prospekt -07.jpg.3260078.jpg
    80.1 KB · Views: 152
  • HFB - 209 Prospekt -06.jpg.3260062.jpg
    HFB - 209 Prospekt -06.jpg.3260062.jpg
    111.9 KB · Views: 124
  • HFB - 209 Prospekt -05.jpg.3260046.jpg
    HFB - 209 Prospekt -05.jpg.3260046.jpg
    111.2 KB · Views: 141
  • HFB - 209 Prospekt -04.jpg.3260030.jpg
    HFB - 209 Prospekt -04.jpg.3260030.jpg
    69 KB · Views: 647
  • HFB - 209 Prospekt -03.jpg.3260014.jpg
    HFB - 209 Prospekt -03.jpg.3260014.jpg
    121.1 KB · Views: 687
  • HFB - 209 Prospekt -02.jpg.3259998.jpg
    HFB - 209 Prospekt -02.jpg.3259998.jpg
    89.5 KB · Views: 712
  • HFB - 209 Prospekt -01.jpg.3259980.jpg
    HFB - 209 Prospekt -01.jpg.3259980.jpg
    67.6 KB · Views: 752
And from the same source,


the HFB-314 Model and 3-view.
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    258.8 KB · Views: 160
  • 2.png
    2.png
    277.3 KB · Views: 187
  • Duesenzeitalter_242-243.pdf
    293.1 KB · Views: 37
My two cents.
Draw made using Inkscape on the only blueprint available of the HFB.209.
Of course I could only imagine some details. Hope you enjoy my work.
 

Attachments

  • hfb.png
    hfb.png
    170 KB · Views: 194
Re: the HFB 314
Wonder why the D-shaped (is that called sugar scoop?) inlets? It would seem like the length necessary to transition to a round section at the compressor (or fan?) face would impose a drag and weight penalty. Could they have wanted to grab undisturbed air while placing the engines as far aft and inboard as possible?
 
taildragger said:
Re: the HFB 314
Wonder why the D-shaped (is that called sugar scoop?) inlets? It would seem like the length necessary to transition to a round section at the compressor (or fan?) face would impose a drag and weight penalty. Could they have wanted to grab undisturbed air while placing the engines as far aft and inboard as possible?

That's possible,any change in wing shape forced on the designer to figure a suitable
position for the engines,if he failed,the simple thing is to put them in rear fuselage.
 
HFB 314:

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1960/1960%20-%202705.html

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1960/1960%20-%202702.html

The second link gives the key to the main drawing
 
That's an interesting link Steelpillow.
Other aircraft projects depicted on other pages of that article of operator's reference drawings include the Avro 771 and the BAC 107 as well as the VC-10 Super Freighter.
 
.. and here's the HFB-314, even in two different layouts:
(from Flugwelt 4/1960)
A clearer views with HFB-209,Flugzeug Classic 2000-04.
hi i have a question as the hfb-209 was made before the hfb-314, did the hfb 209 was used to make the hfb-314 since the front looks like a bit similar and also it uses same windows and same fuselage width or was the hfb-314 a completly different project wich was not based on another aircraft?
 
hi i have a question as the hfb-209 was made before the hfb-314, did the hfb 209 was used to make the hfb-314 since the front looks like a bit similar and also it uses same windows and same fuselage width or was the hfb-314 a completly different project wich was not based on another aircraft?

HFB made many design studies over the years. Like any design office, they would tend to take their previous work as a starting point. So yes, the design of the 314 would show a clear lineage back to the 209 and probably earlier projects. But no metal was cut on any airframe until the 320 Hansa Jet, so one cannot really talk of a specific type being developed from another, they were all just initial design studies.
 
hi i have a question as the hfb-209 was made before the hfb-314, did the hfb 209 was used to make the hfb-314 since the front looks like a bit similar and also it uses same windows and same fuselage width or was the hfb-314 a completly different project wich was not based on another aircraft?

HFB made many design studies over the years. Like any design office, they would tend to take their previous work as a starting point. So yes, the design of the 314 would show a clear lineage back to the 209 and probably earlier projects. But no metal was cut on any airframe until the 320 Hansa Jet, so one cannot really talk of a specific type being developed from another, they were all just initial design studies.
thanks :D
 
Thanks for sharing. Is anything known about the people behind this project?

Good question. To trace this, you need to go back to the CASA C-207 Azor. The CASA project office director was Pedro Huarte-Mendicoa Larraga. Under him was the German engineer, Dipl. Ing. Hermann Pohlmann who worked at CASA in Madrid from 1950 to 1955.

Pohlmann was better-known for his design work at Junkers from 1923 to 1940. He then moved to the Hamburger Flugzeugbau GmbH as head of the design department (under chief designer Dr. Ing. Richard Vogt). When Walther Blohm reformed the Hamburger Flugzeugbau GmbH in West Germany, Pohlmann returned to Finkenwerder.

According to the BMWi (Bundeswirtschaftsministeriums/Federal Ministry of Economics) - which was considering subsidy funding - the HFB 209 was 'developed in Spain'. But it is not clear whether this refers to the C-207 or suggests that Pohlmann had already begun work on an enlarged, turboprop variant while still in Madrid. As for funding, the 1959 BMWi report regarded the HFB 209 'to be somewhat slow and likely to be quickly overtaken by developments'. [1]

In the end, the BMWi decided against subsidizing either the HFB 209 or the Hamburger jetliner concepts. Design work on these civilian projects ended in 1960.
___________________________________

[1] "HFB 209, ein in Spanien entwickeltes mittleres Verkehrsflugzeug, das aber etwas langsam sei und vermutlich schnell durch die Entwicklung überholt werde."

The BMWi report also mentions that Lufthansa regarded the HFB 314 rather highly, seeing that jetliner as a potential Caravelle replacement.
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom