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Folland Postwar Aircraft Projects

overscan (PaulMM)

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Hesham, please try to limit yourself to one program per thread ;)

The Gnat replacement trainer requirement was AST 362.

HS1173, P45 and Fo-147 are well documented in Project Cancelled and British Secret Projects: Jet Bombers. I don't have anything about Hunting H-155. AST 362 was filled by the Jaguar, which was based on the HS1173 and Breguet Br121 ECAT, with the French leading. It ended up as a strike fighter, and the trainer requirement was eventually filled by the Hawker HS1182 project which became the Hawk.
 

Jemiba

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Ah, the Folland Gnat ! This aircraft and derivatives would deserve a thread of its own,
I think. In my opinion cancelling the fighter version for the RAF was another mistake
by the british procurement politics.
In "Sabre Slayer and Red Arrow" a bomber version is shown, not really a derivative,
but a development along the same lines as the Gant, which would have been a true
successor to the DH. Mosquito.
 

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Jemiba

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I've estimated lenght as about 13,3m and span about 9,4m,
Just a guess, of course ...

@ TsrJoe :

Difficult, as in "Sabre Slayer and red Arrow" there was just a perspective drawing.
But I'll look up again, at least, what my estimations were ...
 

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elmayerle

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Jemiba said:
I've estimated lenght as about 13,3m and span about 9,4m,
Just a guess, of course ...
Hmm, looking at those illustrations, I'd be tempted to suggest that the aircraft could be modeled using a 1/48 Gnat kit and a couple 1/72 ones to get the right tailpipes. It'd be an attractive little thing for your shelf.
 

TinWing

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elmayerle said:
Jemiba said:
I've estimated lenght as about 13,3m and span about 9,4m,
Just a guess, of course ...
Hmm, looking at those illustrations, I'd be tempted to suggest that the aircraft could be modeled using a 1/48 Gnat kit and a couple 1/72 ones to get the right tailpipes. It'd be an attractive little thing for your shelf.
I'm inclined to say that's just how Folland engineered this proposal. It really looks like a scaled up Gnat with a pair of Orpheus-sized engines.

Jemiba, do you have any more details?
 

Jemiba

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No, sorry ! IIRC this project was just mentioned in quite a short notice, without further
details. I used the engines and the 4000lb bomb as basis for my estimations .
But I'll ask boxkite, to have another look into this book ...
 

hesham

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anther two projects:

Boulton Paul P.128 research and experimental supersonic aircraft.

Bristol model-185 rocket intercopter aircraft.
 

boxkite

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It lasted a little bit longer to find my copy of „Folland Gnat – Sabre-Slayer and Red Arrow“ – sorry. I’ve checked the half page regarding the Light Bomber Project – unfortunately it’s one of the few projects WITHOUT mentioning the dimensions.

On page 109 is written: “This was foreseen as a successor to the Canberra bomber, a brochure being raised in June 1957 with the G.A drawing SK.1785 that indicated a light bomber based on the Gnat formula, but basically a Gnat ‘scaled-up’ in the ratio of 1.5 to 1.0. … Power was intended to be two Bristol Orpheus engines, either Or.11 or Or.12 …”
 

elmayerle

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Considering that the ratio of 1.5 to 1.0 fits a 1/48 scale basis for a 1/72 scale kit, my initial estimate appears to be fairly close.
 

alertken

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2/35: Br.Marine Aircraft Ltd.(S.42 licencee)
24/12/37: recruits H.P.Folland from Gloster, renamed Folland A/C Ltd.
9/59: sold to HSAL.
 

Tophe

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Nice and surprising, thanks! ;D
The link says "Folland light transport project" and why a LIGHT plane would have 4 engines (turboprops?). Either the journalists made a mistake or else the engines were very small (BAe 146 like?), for STOL performance blowing the whole wing or something, no?
 

Jemiba

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To me those engines don't look like turboprops, as they don't seem to have a circular cross
section, as turboprops usually have. I would assume the engines could have been something
like DH Gipsys Queens, as in the DH Heron.
 

Jemiba

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From the "Helicopter and VTO World" magazine, January/February 1961 issue, probably not regarded as an aircraft
by everybody, but it left the ground and had an aircraft registration: The Ground Effect Research Machine, short GERM,
powered by two 700 cc Royal Enfield motor cycle engines and shown publicly for the first time dring November 1960.
 

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Stargazer2006

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I guess that if further studied under BAC, it would have been known as the Teria... ::)
 

hesham

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Schneiderman said:
Thank you Schneiderman,

and please can you explain more by drawing or data.
 

Schneiderman

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SK are drawing numbers, not projects
The Utility Freighter Aircraft
Span 87' 6"
Length 57' 6"
Height 18' 3"
All-up weight 17,000lbs
Typical loads could be 32 passengers, 37f ft3 freight, 2 Land Rovers or 16 paratroops
 

hesham

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Thank you Schneiderman,

and if we get more drawings to Folland Projects,that will be great.
 

Schneiderman

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I have the drawing of the Utility Freight Aircraft, I won them on ebay this evening. Wait a few days and I will post them here
 

hesham

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Schneiderman said:
I have the drawing of the Utility Freight Aircraft, I won them on ebay this evening. Wait a few days and I will post them here
OK Schneiderman,I will wait.
 

hesham

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That's my lucky day,thank you very much Schneiderman.
 

Petrus

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Schneiderman said:
Sorry about the poor quality
Quality is quite good. Thanks for posting it.
 

Apophenia

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Jemiba said:
... the engines could have been something like DH Gipsys Queens, as in the DH Heron.
So Jens was exactly right back in Dec 2007. SK.1551 reads "Gipsy Queen 30 engines" ... just as used in the DH Heron :D
 

Schneiderman

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Yes, but that was already known.
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1954/1954%20-%202646.html?search=folland
Folland issued a 19-page brochure for this aircraft in 1954 but I have yet to see a copy. The only one I know about is in a library in Ottawa.
 

Schneiderman

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The Utility Freighter was designed to meet a specification issued by Caspair, a charter airline operating in Kenya, and hence was it was a simple aircraft optimised for overseas operations. Engine installation was identical to that on the D.H. Heron to minimise costs. The brochure includes detailed weight, performance and cost data but there is no mention of a Fo project number.
 

hesham

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OHM,you made my day dear Schneiderman,

and can I ask you if we can get or know more about Folland SK series,we mentioned in this forum
some of them,but any more ?.
 

Schneiderman

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SK isn't really a series, its just the number system for basic layout drawings used by Folland's drawing office. The lowest number I know of is SK137, which is one of the GA drawings for the Fo108 in 1938, and they had reached SK1978 for the Gnat 4, Fo144, by 1959
 

Maveric

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I probably always get the same question, I hope no one resents it. Are there technical data for these projects?
 

Schneiderman

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There's probably data sitting in the BAe Systems archive but not much published. The amphibian was for ASR and powered by a RR Griffon driving contraprops. The Fo131 glider was an all wood version of the Fo128, 98' span, 74' 6" long
 
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