Eurofighter Typhoon

timmymagic said:
A Question...
The RAF is ''Reduce to Produce'ing' all of its Tranche 1 Typhoon. What happens to the Spanish and German Tranche 1's when replaced by Quadriga and Halcon? And the Austrian and Italian Tranche 1's when withdrawn? There could be c100 low mileage (less than half lifetime airframe hours) Typhoon Tranche 1 on the market over the next 6 years, all with some upgrade potential....I've advocated sending them to Ukraine for free, be interesting to see what the users do....will they scrap for parts like RAF? Or sell on? Or gift?

Realistically...
I think there will definitely be at least 160 c200 new build Typhoon (excluding the Kuwaiti and Qatari ones that are already being built and delivered). But it could reach 240 higher than that with a following wind. Any more than that would be a massive bonus....and a big surprise (it certainly won't hit 386 like Ordered and Potential Orders tally to above, but if it got to 240 that would be incredible).
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A dark horse could be Mexico. The F-5Es are long overdue for replacement and a Tranche 1 can do the job just fine. The twin engines would be welcomed and Mexico has bought from Spain (and Europe) in the past.
 
What's any difference between Tranche 3 and 4? Are there any hardware or software differences?
 
Tranche 4/Quadriga has AESA radars and unspecified hardware and software modernisations of sub components, likely to address obsolesce. It was previously known as Tranche 3B.
 
That's kind of my point. The Tranche 3 (some) and Tranche 2 (some) will also get AESA radars, of 3 quite different sorts. So that's not really a Tranche 4 thing.

I've yet to see any other changes specified.
 
timmymagic said:
Ok I'll amend...

You did say that 160 was never going to happen though....
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I have no crystal ball, but I'm not too optimistic for various reasons. Is there the potential? Theoretically yes, does it mean it'll happen? No, it might, but the track record of Eurofighter export sales isn't particularily convincing and unless the Eurofighter consortium can deliver on the paper promises it makes and not just a decade or more later, and that also requires the buy in from the nations itself and the will to make decisions on time and approve the budgets required to make it happen, I'm not holding my breath and manage expectations accordingly. You know, in 1998/1999 there were big plans to sell around 400 A/C by 2020. We are in 2024 and the competion isn't sleeping, threats are evolving and the window of opportunity becomes smaller and smaller...
 
red admiral said:
What's any difference between Tranche 3 and 4? Are there any hardware or software differences?
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Typhoon evolves continuously, a Tranche is just a contract, bit aircraft are build in Block standards which describe the physical configuration. The actual capabilities are most precisely described by the PSCs, for those who know what a PSC is and what it entails. The Block 60 standard, as T4 baseline standard expands on the Block 40K standard, which specific hardware provisions for future growth, obsolescence cures including comprehensive equipment upgrades/replacements as it happened in T3A. T4 aircraft will evolve in line with the overall planned evolution and might, at the beginning even lag behind existing aircraft which might have (started) to be upgraded to newer capability standards by the time Block 60 A/C are cleared and delivered. It's always a question of what is written into the cobteacts, what is feasible in delivery timescales etc. Most T3A aircraft were delivered at P1Ea standard for example, even as P2E/P3E had been introduced... Just as an example.
 
RTX (Raytheon) is appealing the Italian governments decision to use its golden share to veto the $1.8bn sale of the Italian based Collins Aerospace subsidiary Microtecnica, which makes aircraft actuators and employs 3,600 across UK, Italy, France and Asia with an expected turnover next year of $1.5bn, to the French company Safran believing it would give them the ability to sabotage Eurofighter component production in favour of the Rafale.

www.defensenews.com

RTX threatens legal action against Italy over Microtecnica sale

Microtecnica is an Italian company that makes components for the Eurofighter jet built by Italy, Germany, the U.K. and Spain.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
 
Re: Tranche 1, Spain plans to upgrade its remaining 15 in the same manner as the two already upgraded at Getafe with a cocktail of Tranche 2 and 3 systems.
 
Yes the P1Eb FW standard giving them limited ground attack through the addition of the computer symbol generator, digital video and voice recorder, laser designator pod and maintenance data panel.

Spain is also considering upgrading Tranche 2, Tranche 3, Halcon 1 and Halcon 2 (tranche 4 and 4+ standard), a total of 96 aircraft and any Haldon 3 purchase to the Long Term Evolution or LTE standard. The 17 Tranche 1 in the P1Eb FW standard wouldnt be upgraded.

Germany is likewise planning to upgrade all Quadriga, its tranche 3 and part of its tranche 2 to LTE but none of its tranche 1.
 
FighterJock said:
Surprised that the RAF are going to strip the early Tranche 1 Tyhoons for spare parts for the rest of the fleet instead of upgrading them to Tranche 3 Typhoons. GCAP/Tempest cannot come quick enough in this case. :mad:
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Justin Bronk: There are a few elements underwriting the tranche 1 retirement, the first one being that, of the 53 tranche 1s out of the 160 Typhoon we bought, about 30 were twin-seaters and not combat capable.

Chair: So they were for training.

Justin Bronk: Yes, for type-conversion training and other bits and bobs. Generally speaking, the RAF is now putting new pilots in their first solo into a single-seat Typhoon, so it does not draw on the twin seats nearly as much for the original conversion work, because the simulators are now very good and also, having had a chance to try it myself, it is a remarkably easy aircraft to fly - really amazingly so.

It is worth noting that the RAF’s safety record for Typhoon is perfect - touch wood. Having flown it more than any of the other European partners, the RAF has so far demonstrated exceptional flight safety, despite not using the twin-seaters very much for type conversion.

When they were trying to quickly build up a pool of instructors and pilots at the beginning of the programme, they really flew the wings off the twin seats, so most of them are knackered. One of the stories around, for example, retiring the tranche 1s with a large amount of their hours remaining is that the tracking of airframe life in that instance is referring to nominal flight hours, whereas it is a better metric to track fatigue index. The original aircraft, to put it bluntly, had their wings flown off.

One of the reasons that Typhoon is a superlative within-visual-range dogfighting aircraft is that it will sit at 9G for as long as the pilot can take it, but, of course, that puts huge strain on the aircraft. Metal aircraft generally have a shorter nominal lifetime, but you can extend it by replacing parts in a relatively predictable way, because we have decades and decades of understanding exactly how metal fatigues, whereas composites are much stronger and lighter, but they fatigue in a fundamentally different way and it is much harder to refresh airframe fatigue life once you have used it up.

A lot of the 30 or so that have gone so far were not combat capable to begin with; they were really worn out and, for the remaining tranche 1s, the argument was always that it was uneconomical to keep them, based on the opportunity cost of that money going elsewhere - for example, into more F-35s or operating the ones that we have more - because tranche 1 Typhoons are so expensive to fly relative to 2s and 3s.

Dave Doogan: Why is that?

Justin Bronk: Just because they are older. They also have obsolescence issues, so a lot of the electronics and hardware in it cannot be upgraded, at least not without a complete overhaul, which would be extremely expensive. The Germans, for example, are replacing theirs with new builds. You cannot upgrade them to use a lot of the newer software, which means that you are running much older software on much older hardware and on much more tired aeroplanes that break a lot more, so it just costs a lot more to fly them.

The one major loss in terms of output will be the loss of the dedicated aggressor training capability. At the moment, we have a squadron of mostly tranche 1s doing QRA and red air simulation. It is the highest in red air that is around in Europe and one of the highest in NATO, because most red air providers fly things like Hawk or Albatros trainers, not a supersonic high-end combat aircraft, so there will be a loss of capacity there.

Dave Doogan: So there is no economic opportunity from the disposal of all 53 tranche 1s. They will go for scrap and are no use to anybody.

Justin Bronk: I am sure you could find uses for some of them; the question will be how many. For the RAF, the choice is reasonable in terms of the argument that the money you would spend keeping them going could be better used elsewhere. For other operators that are looking for a Typhoon-type capability, it might make more sense if they are not trading off on a bespoke TyTAN-type support arrangement against things like F-35.
 
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looking at the J-10 side by side with the Typhoon, it looks like the J-10C cockpit looks a bit cramp for the pilot
 
aonestudio said:
des.mod.uk

Cutting-edge Typhoon Radar embodied for first flight - Defence Equipment & Support

A Typhoon fighter jet has been fitted with one of the world’s most advanced radars ahead of initial flight trials.
des.mod.uk des.mod.uk
View attachment 717513
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Notice the small error on the picture illustrating the report (see also post #741) Caution panel states:
Remove before:
- RF transmission
- fitting radome
- before flight

Can you really fly without a radome? Or does ground crew have to open the radome before each flight?!
;)
 
TomcatViP said:
Notice the small error on the picture illustrating the report (see also post #741) Caution panel states:
Remove before:
- RF transmission
- fitting radome
- before flight

Can you really fly without a radome? Or does ground crew have to open the radome before each flight?!
;)
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Safety placards are supposed to be all encompassing.
 
TomcatViP said:
Notice the small error on the picture illustrating the report (see also post #741) Caution panel states:
Remove before:
- RF transmission
- fitting radome
- before flight

Can you really fly without a radome? Or does ground crew have to open the radome before each flight?!
;)
Click to expand...
That cover (and the yellow bar) seem too big to allow the radome to fit over them.
 
Spain propose Eurofighter Tranche 2 to Colombia !
www.key.aero

Spain offers second-hand Eurofighters to Colombia

The Colombian Air Force received a new Eurofighter Typhoon proposal from the Spanish government in early December, with the proposed deal reportedly covering the supply of between 12-16 second-hand Tranche 2 Eurofighters from the Spanish Air and Space Force
www.key.aero www.key.aero
 
BlackBat242 said:
Well, Columbia's eastern neighbor does seem to be making nasty noises, so it actually makes sense for them to upgrade their forces.
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The record is definitively mixed. Argentina is a textbook case, TBH UK avenged (and still avenge !) from the Falklands via Martin Baker ejector seats. This has sunk countless Argentina new fighter procurements, all by itself. Last victim: the Super Etendards. They will be no coming back.

Besides Argentina very specific case, other south american countries often have balked at new fighters costs - versus the lack of serious air threat in the Americas by an large (no Houthis with drones or missiles, no big threat like Russia or China - or one Pacific ocean away, which ain't nothing). Plus Uncle Sam Monroe doctrine, for good or worse - USAF and USN colossal capabilities.

Who is gonna seriously challenge Paraguay or Uruguay, from the air ?
 
snne said:
Aren't those based on Mirage Vs with old Israeli avionics and J79s? (Basically still a 3rd gen aircraft)
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No, the Kfir is already a Mirage 5++.
And the Colombian Kfir has been modernised with 4gen avionics.
 
Archibald said:
The record is definitively mixed. Argentina is a textbook case, TBH UK avenged (and still avenge !) from the Falklands via Martin Baker ejector seats. This has sunk countless Argentina new fighter procurements, all by itself. Last victim: the Super Etendards. They will be no coming back.

Besides Argentina very specific case, other south american countries often have balked at new fighters costs - versus the lack of serious air threat in the Americas by an large (no Houthis with drones or missiles, no big threat like Russia or China - or one Pacific ocean away, which ain't nothing). Plus Uncle Sam Monroe doctrine, for good or worse - USAF and USN colossal capabilities.

Who is gonna seriously challenge Paraguay or Uruguay, from the air ?
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I was referring to Venezuela's recent declaration that they own about half of Guyana.

Those three nations are at the opposite end of South America from Argentina, Paraguay, and Uruguay.
 
In any case, interceptors are still necessary in the fight against drug trafficking by air.
 
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