Bristol 100 ton bomber

[Pepe Rezende]

Does anyone have a three view? There was one but the site, now, disapeared. I also need info about the butterfly tail version.

Thanks

Pepe

 

[borovik]

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2298.0/
and 2views from "Bristol Aircraft since1910"/Putnam

 

[Antonio]

The Butterfly design looks more modern, probably was designed later than the conventional tail layout.

 

[archipeppe]

A Brabazon ancestor??

 

[Antonio]

A Brabazon ancestor??

Yes, that's right.

Source: Giants of the Sky. Bill Gunston. PSL. Pg 212

In 1942, with USAAC handling the day bombing campaign against Germany, the Bristol Buckingham became redundant.
(the Mosquito also contributed [http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/bristol_buckingham.php])

This left a hole in the Bristol design office and, at the Ministry, they asked if Bristol would like a design study contract for a bomber to carry 80,000 lb to Berlin. (a B-36-class bomber). No type number was raed. This was at first a free exercice but later, 8xBristol radials buried in the wings made the wing very deep, and upper and lower four cannon turrets made the fuselage portly. The butterfly tail, November 1942 design was 225 ft span and 5,000 sq ft area. Rotol contra-rotating 6-blade propeller was 16 ft in diameter. The aircraft would have been unpressurized and defensive armament would have comprised 12x 20 mm cannon.

In 1946, a Bristol advertisement (I think hesham found it and it's here in the forum) appeared showing a direct civil version of the "100 ton bomber". Finally, although a different configuration was selected for Type Number 167 Brabazon, it retained technical solutions developed in the bomber design work.

 

[Pepe Rezende]

That's exactly what I was looking for. I download both but I lost them at a computer crash...

 

[mz]

I guess the pusher engines caused the engine mass to be far aft, and to balance the center of gravity, the fuselage was pushed forward. This caused there to be lots of area in front of the wings and little behind, meaning bad directional stability and a short tail arm, so the tail had to be humongous.

Compare to the more conventional (though a lot smaller) Vickers Windsor:

http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/england/vickers_windsor.gif

 

[lark]

See also Maveric's reply #6 in the Bristol designations thread...

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
http://www.airvectors.net/avbrtn.html

"The Brabazon was derived from proposals for a "100 Ton Bomber" submitted to the Air Ministry in early 1943 from Bristol and other British aircraft companies. The requirement was for a very heavy long-range bomber, comparable to the American Convair B-36 of the immediate postwar period. The Bristol submission for the 100 Ton Bomber featured four pusher contra-rotating propellers, each driven by twin 18-cylinder air-cooled 18-cylinder two-row Bristol Centaurus radials. In early concepts, the aircraft featured top, bottom, and tail turrets, each with four 20-millimeter cannon, and an internal bomb-bay; defensive armament was later dropped, altitude being used for defense"

Maveric-san's post is more large and clean.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2298.0;attach=19148;image

Bristol Centaurus sleeve valve engine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Centaurus

 

[airman]

http://www.aviationarchive.org.uk/stories/pages.php?enum=GE121&pnum=4&maxp=9

and

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=9779

Bristol B.1/42

I have seen on Bristol Designations that exist a Bristol Type 168 or a bomber version of Bristol Type 167 : is it connected with specific Bristol B.1/42 ?

 

[blackkite]

Thanks a lot. Amazing design!!

 

[Sherman Tank]

http://www.aviationarchive.org.uk/stories/pages.php?enum=GE121&pnum=4&maxp=9

and

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=9779

Bristol B.1/42

I have seen on Bristol Designations that exist a Bristol Type 168 or a bomber version of Bristol Type 167 : is it connected with specific Bristol B.1/42 ?

WesWorld is some guy's weird Alt-History thing, so anything pulled from there is probably fictional.

 

[Hood]

As the author of that Wesworld entry I can safely say that its based on the real-world Giant Bomber designs as outlined in BSP Vol.3, but I've made some AU tweaks.

As I've said before in another thread, Wesworld is an AU so nothing there should be considered gospel even if the members there have used real world designs as a basis.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/71176-what-is-your-favourite-concept-aircraft/

"the Bristol 100 Tonne Bomber designed in 1942, powered by 8 Bristol Centaurus engines driving pusher contra rotating props. Its wing span would have been 225 feet and 213 foot 6 inches nose to tail. The max fuel load would have been 48,800 lbs. Pretty epic for 1942."

 

[blackkite]

There is a surprising and beautiful three side view drawing for following 100 ton bomber in the great Tony Buttler-san's BRITISH SECRET PROJECTS FIGHTERS & BOMBERS 1935-1950(Page 124).

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
http://theworldatwar70879.yuku.com/topic/835/RAF-Might-Have-Beens#.WcnzX7kUnIU

 

[shock1]

(forgive if posting in the wrong area/topic ) looking for identification help on this 4 engine aircraft . Possibly a Boeing , Martin ? or Convair 1950's era ?
Any assistance would be most helpful .

 

[Jemiba]

Welcome shock !
The answer to your question should be here, it was some years earlier !

 

[Orionblamblam]

Found on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bristol-10...awing-Litho-Print-1940s-Original/203211475475

Say... didn't there used to be a "found on ebay" sub-forum?

 

[Orionblamblam]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bristol-10...awing-Litho-Print-1940s-Original/203211484665

 

[dan_inbox]

Say... didn't there used to be a "found on ebay" sub-forum?

Paul merged it with the Found in the Internet one.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Say... didn't there used to be a "found on ebay" sub-forum?

Paul merged it with the Found in the Internet one.

Well, that answers that. Thanks.

 

[foiling]

Found on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bristol-10...awing-Litho-Print-1940s-Original/203211475475

Say... didn't there used to be a "found on ebay" sub-forum?

Beaut image.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

it was called Bristol Type-168.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

Проект стратегического бомбардировщика Bristol "100 ton bomber" (Великобритания. 1942 - 1943 год).

В феврале 1942 года британские ВВС начали массированные дневные ковровые бомбардировки городов Германии с целью подорвать промышленный потенциал немцев и сосредоточить нападения на моральном состоянии гражданского населения противника и, в частности, промышленных рабочих. Встал вопрос…

raigap.livejournal.com

Bristol 100 ton bomber.(30.12.42).
No defensive guns!!

 

[Anachronus]

Was it a Brabazon derivative/ancestor design?

 

[blackkite]

Giant bomber design work at Bristol did help in the design of another giant airplane, the Brabazon trans -Atlantic airliner first flown on 4th September 1949.
(source : BRITISH SECRET PROJECTS FIGHTERS & BOMBERS 1935-1950, TONY BUTTLER, page 128)

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

70th anniversary of the Brabazon

Wednesday 4th September marked the 70th anniversary of the first flight of the Bristol Brabazon aeroplane from Filton Airfield (4th September 1949). While only one complete example of the huge aircraft was ever built (and that has since been scrapped), there are some Brabazon parts – including a...

www.totalbristol.com

The Bristol 100-ton Bomber

In late-1942, the Filton design offices were working on a 5,000 mile range bomber which became known as the Bristol 100-ton bomber. It required many times the power of the Lancaster, to be provided by eight 2800 hp Bristol Centaurus engines – the most powerful around at the time. This concept had pusherengines mounted in coupled pairs and buried in the wing to reduce drag.

When the initial Brabazon findings were published, Bristol responded by submitting a slightly modified version of their bomber to meet the needs for the Type I requirement. As Bristol's earlier work had shown the performance the Brabazon Committee has been seeking, the Company was authorised to proceed with preliminary design work, on the proviso that work on wartime aircraft was not disrupted. A contract to produce a pair of prototype aircraft was issued and concepts for the Bristol Type 167 Brabazon Type 1 started to be published through Bristol-drawn advertisements appearing in the wartime aviation press.

Also required was a large hangar and a new runway to accommodate the proposed leviathan, which would be the largest aircraft in the world. Although the Filton site had space to the north of the factory, the hamlet of Charlton would need to be mostly demolished to build the 8500 feet long runway.

The first Brabazon configuration.

An artist’s impression of Brabazon Mark 1 in civilian configuration appeared as the front cover of Flight magazine for 7th January 1944 (colour illustration on next page, reconstructed by the author). It had “pusher” engines and sported “butterfly” tail surfaces, with the engines still coupled in pairs with coaxial final drives to the 6-blade contra-rotating propellors. This enabled both propellors to keep turning should one engine fail.

 

[Schneiderman]

........

When the initial Brabazon findings were published, Bristol responded by submitting a slightly modified version of their bomber to meet the needs for the Type I requirement. As Bristol's earlier work had shown the performance the Brabazon Committee has been seeking, the Company was authorised to proceed with preliminary design work, on the proviso that work on wartime aircraft was not disrupted. A contract to produce a pair of prototype aircraft was issued and concepts for the Bristol Type 167 Brabazon Type 1 started to be published through Bristol-drawn advertisements appearing in the wartime aviation press.

........

OK that website is misleading. So first the Brabazon Committee, actually the Transport Aircraft Committee, report was not published, it was a short confidential report restricted to the Cabinet and never issued to industry. Secondly, so Bristol did not then respond by submitting their concept to meet the needs of the Type 1 requirement, the Ministry of Aircraft Production (MAP), after deliberation, considered the company to have some spare design capacity and invited them, and only them, to provide their ideas to meet the Committee's outline recommendations for Type 1 - "London-New York Express - Landplane with six or eight engines, pressure cabin, operational cruising speed not less than 275 mph at 20,000 feet, greatest payload (passenger, mail and freight) feasible with current engine types; still air range 5,000 statute miles". It is notable that during the Committee's deliberations they had sent a questionnaire to the SBAC to which eight companies responded. One question was - "In developing large aircraft, is it the right policy to develop concurrently civil and military versions?" Opinion was divided 50:50, Bristol, of course, responded 'yes', hence the "100 ton" bomber used as the basis for the Type 167 Brabazon.
It was a poor decision by the MAP to select just one company to develop a preliminary design to meet such a technically demanding requirement. Despite the need to focus industry on military projects others should and probably could have been allowed to undertake early scoping work. Neither was there to be any saving in effort as the "100 ton" bomber never left the drawing board.

 

[Anachronus]

Thank you both. That has cleared up my question most effectively.

 

[hesham]

From this book.

 

[hesham]

From this nice book.