Besson MB.35 and MB.411 observation floatplanes.

[F.L.]

The Besson MB.35 "Passe-Partout" and its derivatives MB.41 and MB.411 are French observation seaplanes designed to operate from the submarine cruiser Surcouf.

Two MB.35 prototypes were produced, one of which was lost by accident, and the second was converted into the MB.410 prototype was destroyed in a fatal accident during testing.

Only two MB.411 serial units were produced.

In autumn of 1934, the first MB.411 was sent to Brest for boarding trials on the Surcouf. The aircraft made its first flight at Le Mureau in June 1935. Surcouf then took the Besson MB.411 to the Caribbean arriving in September 1935 for sea trials. In January 1936 MB.411 returned to Mureaux for changes. The second MB.411 was completed in February 1937, made its first flight December 1937 and was delivered July 1938. It replaced the first in the Surcouf.

Of the two MB.411s, one will be used by the Escadrille Aeronavale 7-S-4 in France, based at Saint-Mandrier, and the second will be brought to England with the Surcouf.

It remains there after the submarine cruiser leaves for the Pacific, and was damaged by a German air raid on Plymouth in April 1941. Contrary to common belief, his career didn't end there.

It was repaired and modified, with new tail and modified wings, then used by the 765 Naval Air Squadron at RNAS Sandbanks until it was withdrawn for lack of spares. The Fleet Air Arm is the second operator of this highly unusual floatplane. It's nickname in British service was "Petrel".

 

[Justo Miranda]

Hi

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-2

 

[Stargazer]

More on the MB.35 "Passe-Partout":

Cependant, dès 1926, un constructeur d'avant-garde. M. Marcel Besson, exposait au salon de l'aviation un très intéressant hydravion dit Passe-Partout ou Besson MB 35, de dimensions réduites, spécialement étudié en vue d'un démontage et montage rapides, d'un garage sous un faible volume, et par conséquent particulièrement propre à être placé à bord d'un sous-marin.
Cet hydravion est, contrairement au modèle américain, un monoplan biplace et voici ses caractéristiques principales : surface de l'aile : 16 m 50 ; envergure : 9 m 85 ; longueur : 9 m 30 ; encombrement : (replié) 2 m x 2 m x 6 m 50 ; moteur Salmson de 120 ch. Poids à vide : 540 kg, poids enlevé 225 kg, poids total : 765 kg, en ordre de marche. Vitesse au sol : 163 km-h. Montée à 2000 m en 11 minutes. Plafond : 4200 m. Distance franchissable : en biplace 325 km, en monoplace (le second passager remplacé par de l'essence) 700 km. Démarreur, appareil photographique, poste de T.S.F. Les manœuvres de démontage et de remontage de l'hydravion, y compris le temps de la rentrée dans le tube- hangar, ou de la sortie ne prennent que 10 minutes. Par ses dispositions si spéciales et si intéressantes, cet appareil de poche apparaît comme susceptible d'une utilisation très intéressante en beaucoup de circonstances, notamment pour la photographie aérienne, en vue des travaux hydrographiques ou de cadastre, en matière de pêche dans la recherche rapide des bancs de poissons, et encore les services postaux, la surveillance des exploitations à grandes étendues, etc.

Source: La Nature: Revue des sciences et de leurs applications aux arts et à l'industrie, Volume 59 - 1931

Marcel Besson et Cie., Rue St. Denis 5, Boulogne-sur-Seine. Specialize in the construction of flying boats, and have produced some of the best craft of this type yet made in France.

The M.B.35 is a low-winged monoplane fitted with two pontoon floats. Independently of its possible military uses, this machine has been designed as a light school seaplane, also for advanced training, for touring, as well as general utility (mail carrying, photographic work). Dismantled, the aircraft can be placed into a case measuring 4 sq. m. by 7 m. in length, where the mechanic may work on his engine, the latter being very accessible. The machine can be dismantled in 10 minutes. It is fitted with a 120 h.p. Salmson air-cooled radial engine. This light two-seater possesses the performances of an excellent two-seater of medium power.

Source: Jane's All the World's Aircraft, Volume 16 (S. Low, Marston, Limited, 1926)

Le croiseur Duguay-Trouin, pour sa croisière de mars- avril 1927 en Méditerranée orientale, prit, également à bord un Besson M. B.-35, dont le pilote fut le lieutenant de vaisseau Praxmayer. Le même officier fut aussi le pilote du Besson qui constitua l'aviation de bord du croiseur Lamotte-Picquet pour une croisière en Amérique Centrale.

Source: L'Aéronautique, Volume 10 - p.32 et p.95 (Gauthier Villars, 1928)

Marcel Besson & Cie, of Boulogne-sur-Seine, who have produced during the past few years marine aircraft of the largest and of the smallest size, exhibit a Besson M.B.35 Submarine Scout (120 h.p. Salmson engine) and a Besson three-engined sea-monoplane fitted with 420 h.p. Gnome-Rhone Jupiter engines.
The Besson MB..35 Submarine Scout is a low-wing, twin-float monoplane of conventional construction. The framing of the wings and of the fuselage is of timber, wire-braced, and fabric-covered ; the undercarriage struts are steel tubes.
This machine has been built with a special view to its being capable of quick dismantling and stowing away in small holds, such as are found on board cruiser submarines. With the wings removed, the machine fits into a packing case 7 m. by 4 m. by 4 m. which allows sufficient room for a mechanic to work on the engine. The wings may be dismantled in 10 mins.
Specification.—Engine, 120 h.p. Salmson (air cooled) ; span, 9-85 m. ; length, 7 -00 m. ; height, 2-40 m. ; wing area, 16-5 sq. m. ; weight empty, 540 kg. ; weight loaded, 765 kg. ; Max. speed, sea level, 163 km.p.h. ; climb, 2,000 m.,in 12 min. ; ceiling 4,200 m.

Source: Flight, December 2, 1926

The Besson company have just produced a small 2-seater twin-float mono-seaplane, fitted with a Salmson 120-h.p. engine, which can be packed away within its tubular hangar carried on the submarine's deck. This Besson seaplane was recently flown from the Melun works to Suresnes, prior to being sent to Brest where it is to be put into service with a submarine flotilla.

Source: Flight, February 17, 1927

The second machine, the title of which is M.B. 35, looks uncommonly like the little Marcel Besson submarine scout shown at the last Paris Exhibition, and the letters M.B. indicate that it may be the same. It is a low-wing monoplane submarine scout, and a placard states that it is used on the cruisers Jeanne d' Arc, La Motte-Piquet, Duguay-Trouin, and Jules Michelet, so that it is being used on surface craft as well.
Wings and undercarriage are attached by quick-release devices for rapid dismantling and erecting.

Source: Flight, July 5, 1928

 

[Stargazer]

More on the MB.41 / MB.410 / MB.411 / Petrel :

BUILT by the Mureaux Company to the designs of M. Marcel Besson, the Besson 41 seaplane is intended for operation from submarines. The machine is a low-wing strut-braced monoplane with central float and wing floats. When fitted with a Salmson engine of 135 h.p., the top speed is 125 m.p.h.

Source: Flight, March 1, 1934

L'avion torpilleur est un ennemi redoutable pour le sous-marin, qui, comme chacun sait, est un bâtiment à la vue basse. Aussi a-t-on pensé à opposer avion à avion. Dans la Marine française, il existe un petit avion éclaireur de sous-marin très intéressant. C'est le petit hydravion à flotteurs Besson (fig. 151). Cet appareil est démontable. Il peut se loger dans un caisson étanche fixé sur le pont du sous-marin (fig. 150) ; lorsque celui-ci navigue en surface, il lui est facile de monter rapidement son petit hydravion. Il est mis à l'eau, prend son vol, va effectuer sa reconnaissance et revient ensuite se poser près du sous-marin qui le hisse à bord et le remet en cage.

Source: L'aviation: dessins de l'auteur Marcel Jeanjean (A. Redier, 1930)

The Besson MB-411 observation float seaplane was designed specifically for operation from the submarine Surcouf, and owed much to the earlier submarine-borne MB-35 Passe- Partout also designed by Marcel Besson. The prototype, the MB-410-01 ordered on August 24, 1932, was powered by a 130 h.p. Salmson 9NC air-cooled radial, but this aircraft was destroyed in 1933 when undergoing official acceptance trials at Saint Raphael, and therefore a second prototype was ordered but, owing to the disbandment of the Marcel Besson company, this machine was built by the ANF-Les Mureaux and designated MB- 411.
Flown for the first time at Les Mureaux in June 1935, the MB-411 differed from the first prototype in having a 175 h.p. Salmson 9ND, and was of mixed construction. It was designed to be housed in a cylindrical hangar of 6.56 ft. diameter and 22.96 ft. length aft of the Surcouf 's conning tower, and could be disassembled rapidly for stowage. Assembly required four minutes from the time the MB-411 was removed from its hangar, and the aircraft was lowered to the water and retrieved by crane. The MB-411 underwent official acceptation trials in August 1935 and was subsequently delivered to the Surcouf for proving trials. However, during a cruise aboard the Surcouf during the last months of 1935, several modifications were found to be necessary, and the MB-411 was returned to the ANF-Les Mureaux at the beginning of 1936.
Completed as a single-seater, the MB-411 was now converted to two-seat configuration, and after further trials at a loaded weight of 2,249 lb. which were completed at the end of May, the aircraft was returned to the Surcouf.
On June 11, 1936, the Admiralty requested a second MB-411, an order for which was placed on February 10, 1937.

Source: War Planes of the Second World War: Floatplanes (William Green, Doubleday, 1967)

One of the freak monsters that emerged in the pre-war period, [the Surcouf] displaced a massive 4,218 tons submerged, mounted two 8-inch guns in a turret for'ard of the conning-tower and carried a hanger and a Besson MB. 411 seaplane. She also had a 16-foot boarding launch and space for forty prisoners-of-war. Classified as a corsair submarine, the only one of her kind, she held pride of place for many years as the world's largest submarine.

Source: Disasters of the deep: a comprehensive survey of submarine accidents and disasters (Edwyn Gray, Naval Institute Press, 1 Oct. 2003)

Faired into the after portion of the conning tower was another pressure-tight section abaft, in this instance for the accommodation of one Besson MB.411 floatplane. This diminutive scouting aeroplane was designed specifically for this application and had to be taken out of the hangar before the wings could be attached and the whole floatplane lowered into the water for take-off: this was a time-consuming and dangerous operation that had to be reversed when the floatplane was recovered at the end of a sortie. The concept may have been acceptable in 1926 when it was first mooted, but was neither effective nor acceptable by the time of World War II.

Source: An Illustrated Data Guide to Submarines of World War II (Christopher Chant, Tiger Books International, 1997)

"Surcouf's" Seaplane
DURING the summer of 1958 there appeared in the correspondence columns of Flight (June 20 and July 25) a number of letters dealing with the identity of the small single-float reconnaissance seaplane carried aboard the French submarine Surcouf during the last war as part of her operational equipment, and which became airborne on test flights in Poole Harbour, Dorset, when the submarine arrived here after the fall of France.
After delving into the archives of the Service Historique de la Marine Francaise, and correspondence with the officer who was in charge of the seaplane until the time of his posting to St Pierre-et-Miquelon on December 31, 1940, a M Suinat, the true identity of the aircraft has now come to light.
It was a Besson two-seat low-wing monoplane of wooden construction which had a square-cut straight tapered wing and a large central float and two small auxiliary floats. It was powered by a radial air-cooled 170 h.p. Salmson engine, and the twin-bladed wooden airscrew was manufactured by Merville. Span was 19ft 8in and the length 16ft 4in approximately, and although the seaplane was built as a two-seater carrying pilot and radio operator, the latter could be dispensed with and the space made available utilized with an extra fuel tank to enable the range to be extended from 5hr to 7hr duration.
The markings and serial number borne by this aircraft are lost in the mists of time, and its ultimate fate is also unknown, but it must be presumed that the Besson perished when Surcouf sank in the Mediterranean in 1942.

Source: Flight, 6 May 1960

PURPOSELY placed in the edition published on All Fool's Day, we presented an image of an 'unknown' Royal Navy floatplane in the April FlyPast 's letters page (top). We were cagey because some of the greatest minds known to aviation history were stumped by it! So we threw it out to the readers and asked them for the answer and, of course, they reacted in their droves!
Tim Thewlis writes: "Sacré bleu navale! It's no joke! It is one of two Besson MB. 411s, designed as a spotter aircraft to be housed in the water-tight hangar of the French submarine Surcouf. As No.2 went to Escadrille HS7, the example illustrated is presumably No. 01. The vessel escaped from Brest in June 1940 and on arrival at Plymouth was taken over by the Royal Navy on July 3. Its MB.411 was repainted (...) Surcouf was passed on to the Free French, but was destroyed in a collision [with a US merchant ship] on February 18, 1942. The fate of its MB.411, which was not on board, remains unclear." Tim gives Aeronautique Navale by Pierre Gaillard (Editions MDM, 1996) as his main source.

Source: Flypast (Key Publishing Limited, 2007)

 

[F.L.]

More on the MB.41 "Pétrel":

Petrel was the nickname of MB.411 in British Service.

 

[hesham]

Why open new topic for Besson,and we have this already,with most of these stuff ?;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/marcel-besson-mb-projects.15831/

 

[Arjen]

@hesham This thread is specifically about the Besson observation floatplanes designed for operating from submarines. The other thread is about Besson designs in general.