BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter

Mike Pryce

BAe P.1216 book: harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm
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I signed a form with BAE Heritage and got the material security cleared back in 2009 to publish for the book. I assume you would need to repeat that. Also, copying the book pictures and republishing would breach copyright of the book.
Thank you, I hope to follow it up in due course. Since the material has already been declassified, there should at least be no need to go through that again. If they have no suitable digital image I may come back and ask about licensing a copy of yours. Dare I also ask if your copy of the P.1219 (cropped wing) variant would bear enlargement?
I can reassure you that I have no intention of pirating anybody's stuff, that's why I am asking.
The BAE form specifies the use you are allowed to make of the material. Unfortunately it does not allow a license that can be passed on. I did it with the help of the Harrier design office, now sadly no more, who were very supportive. The P1219 image is not great quality so doubt more could be made of it. It was not a significant project in any case.
 

steelpillow

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The BAE form specifies the use you are allowed to make of the material. Unfortunately it does not allow a license that can be passed on. I did it with the help of the Harrier design office, now sadly no more, who were very supportive. The P1219 image is not great quality so doubt more could be made of it. It was not a significant project in any case.
Thanks again for the clarification. If the BAE route proves abortive I may take the time-honoured but also time-consuming route of creating my own original graphics for both, though I feel it healthier to promote the original where possible.
The P1219 may not have been significant to the main line of development but as an example of the outboard tail configuration it is of wider interest, especially in contrasting the reasons why Kingston rejected it with the reasons why others such as Blohm & Voss and Vought promoted it and SpaceShips One and Two adopted it. I have had a piece on all that accepted by The Aviation Historian though they seem in no hurry to publish it.
 

taildragger

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I recently purchased this original painting, by Pat Owen dated 1980 or 1983, of what looks like a p.1216 variant. It doesn't seem be illustrated in the book although there are canard-configured variants mentioned. I'd think that the the proposal must have had some promenance if the marketing guys had a painting done of it, assuming it's not fan-art. Does anyone know anything about this proposal?
View attachment 614228
It's a Rolls Royce painting. As actual designs could not be shown at the time this allowed them to show the three post nozzles without revealing the P1216. Roy Braybrook pointed out it would need lead ballast in the tail booms to balance, and Francis K Mason even put it in the Hawker Putnam, but it was artwork, not a design. I first saw it in a BBC Money Programme in the 80s.
Thanks for the reply, although it's disappointing. The airplane does appear unbalanced in the VTOL mode - perhaps the center nozzle was planned to rotate to blow up rather than down. Seriously though, I think that the airplane would be nose-heavy in wingborne flight also - the aerodynamic and powered centers of lift look like they'd be in about the same place.
 

TsrJoe

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RR. conceptual design ? for 3 post configuration, drawing by Francis K. Mason, ref. Hawker Aircraft since 1920, FK. Mason, Putnam, 1991
 

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Oktostratos

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Hey,

Just wondering if you have any copies left in stock. I'm looking for information on the P.1216 for a personal project, and this seems to be the definitive source!
 

Grey Havoc

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Oddly enough, I've never gotten around to ordering a copy. Rectified.
:)
 

Bill S

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Michael got my copy yesterday and I am already enjoying reading. Now to find a copy of Paul's book!
 

Mike Pryce

BAe P.1216 book: harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm
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Glad it got there and that you like it.
 

Tony Williams

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Always a mystery how the mail going near takes longer than going far!

Reminds me of an amusing science-fiction short story I read decades ago which was based on this observation. Somebody decided to push this principle to the limit by sending a message addressed to a randomly-chosen star on the other side of the galaxy. A reply arrived instantly....
 

kitnut617

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My copy was at the post office today Mike, thanks very much as it will greatly assist with building the 1/72 scale model I have of it. I might even have a go at the 2-seater variant with the forward fuel tanks on the booms.
 

Tony Williams

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My copy was at the post office today Mike, thanks very much as it will greatly assist with building the 1/72 scale model I have of it. I might even have a go at the 2-seater variant with the forward fuel tanks on the booms.
Had this project reached production, I suspect that the enlarged booms would have become standard - not just for fuel, the noses would also have been a convenient place for installing sensors and designators without using up a pylon.
 

Mike Pryce

BAe P.1216 book: harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm
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My copy was at the post office today Mike, thanks very much as it will greatly assist with building the 1/72 scale model I have of it. I might even have a go at the 2-seater variant with the forward fuel tanks on the booms.
Had this project reached production, I suspect that the enlarged booms would have become standard - not just for fuel, the noses would also have been a convenient place for installing sensors and designators without using up a pylon.
They were designed to be adaptable to various roles.
 

kitnut617

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The book is fascinating to read Mike, I have a question though. Would you have any more info on the P.1214 line of variants? The model I have of it is the X wing plan form of it.
 

Mike Pryce

BAe P.1216 book: harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm
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The book is fascinating to read Mike, I have a question though. Would you have any more info on the P.1214 line of variants? The model I have of it is the X wing plan form of it.
That and the GA in Tony Buttler's book is all there is. It was a 'quick look', rejected and then used just for PR.
 

uk 75

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Wish my doodles came out that well. I still cant manage more than bad side views!
 

SteveO

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Thanks all, I was inspired by Luciano Alviani’s original artwork for the Project Tech Profile books (everyone else’s artwork is excellent too of course!). Watched a few YouTube videos about perspective and gave it a go. Will try and clean up the lines and use a pen, rule and french curve next time. Maybe add some colour too.

Lots of what if scenarios, not enough what if artwork :)
View: https://youtu.be/K1dT8gibiR4
 

elmayerle

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Always a mystery how the mail going near takes longer than going far!

Reminds me of an amusing science-fiction short story I read decades ago which was based on this observation. Somebody decided to push this principle to the limit by sending a message addressed to a randomly-chosen star on the other side of the galaxy. A reply arrived instantly....
I don't remember the exact story, but I remember reading it in Analog, ISTR that the hero was named Chop Fuey Rider. Yeah, that was an amusing concept and story.
 

helmutkohl

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beautiful art of a beautiful aircraft!!
i should also buy Mike's book, but probably need to import it .

I really miss those British twin boom designs and the P1216 is a worthy continuation of the sea vixen and other similar designs.

i would imagine it would have been popular for many navies (maybe air forces too?) like the Indian Navy.
 

Ingraman

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The Harrier site seems down. Is the book still available somewhere? Or just second hand? Thank you very much.
 

CJGibson

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PM me and I will sort one out, but I'll be away after Saturday.

Or visit our website, link below.

Chris
 
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Manderallen

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I finally found this book from a British site. After a year of looking this was well worth it. Great book. Thank you.
 

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