• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

ASCC/ASIC/US DoD Reporting Name for Soviet/Russian/Chinese Aircraft and Missiles

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,376
Reaction score
621
Y-11 CHAN is confirmed by SOC. FC-1/JF-17 FISHPASTE appears to come from a joke post I made in 2004 on Key Forum.
To reflect its MiG-21 heritage I recommend the following: "Fishpaste" or "Fishcake"
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
New codename

SS-X-31 for RS-26 Rubez http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/index-714.html
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
codenames for Warzsaw Pact aircrafts:

Maya Aero L-29 Delfin
Market Aero L-39 Albatros

exist some other ?
 

Deino

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,488
Reaction score
54
... and we missed FANTAN for the Q-5 ! ;D
 

Attachments

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,243
Reaction score
77
Ha ha! I love that. Thanks Deino! ;D
 

robunos

You're Mad, You Are.....
Senior Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,728
Reaction score
7
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
FIREBIRD is pretty appropriate for J-10 actually, its a Russian mythological creature similar to the classical Phoenix.
I've always understood that ASCC reporting names were not supposed to be laudatory. FIREBIRD seems pretty laudatory to me... :eek:

cheers,
Robin.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,243
Reaction score
77
robunos said:
I've always understood that ASCC reporting names were not supposed to be laudatory. FIREBIRD seems pretty laudatory to me... :eek:
Agreed! That's what made it dubious to me too. But Paul_MM seems to trust the source for it, and besides, one can assume that in our times of political correctness and obvious American focus on the potentially huge Chinese markets, there may be a desire not to pick names that are too derogatory so as to flatter the new prefered commercial partner... ::)
 

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,376
Reaction score
621
A report by a USAF official on the Chinese Airforce is as "official" as it gets. It might be a reference to the putative "Lavi" origins and rebirth with Russian engine....
 

Abraham Gubler

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
3,559
Reaction score
13
robunos said:
I've always understood that ASCC reporting names were not supposed to be laudatory. FIREBIRD seems pretty laudatory to me...
Maybe in the 40s, 50s and 60s they weren't (BULL, FAGOT, FISHBED, BACKFIRE, etc). But FLANKER, FULCRUM, BLACKJACK, etc are all pretty complimentary names. And in many cases proudly adopted as names by the operators.

The FIREBIRD as a Phoneix of the Lavi connection is pretty nice. I'm still hoping the T-50 will be named FLYHALF to heep the Su-27 Rugby positions series naming going (FLANKER, FULLBACK).
 

Deino

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,488
Reaction score
54
Hey ... and we've missed „FINBACK“ für die J-/J-8II.
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
and FARMER F JJ-6 (FT-6) http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1981/1981%20-%200622.html
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
In some books from Yefim Gordon is MiG-21UM like MONGOL C. Is it correct?
 

SOC

I look at pictures all day
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
1,174
Reaction score
1
Stargazer said:
(Not related to above) In the years after the breakup of the Soviet Union, some reporting names were circulated for the latest aircraft prototypes as follows, but I can't determine for sure whether they are bogus or real:
  • FLATPACK (MiG-1.44 MFI)
  • FIRKIN (Su-47 Berkut)
  • MISER (MiG-AT)
  • MAXDOME (Il-80 VKP = Il-87)
  • MITTEN (Yak-130)
Also some Chinese types were apparently named as follows:
  • CHAN (Harbin Y-11)
  • FLOUNDER (Xi'an JH-7)
As I no longer trust Wikipedia, and find dubious many of the online resources, can someone refer to a RELIABLE source for these names (IF they are legit at all of course). What is the authoritative document that provides such official namings, anyway? Thanks a lot in advance for your answers!
All of those are correct as far as I can remember.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,243
Reaction score
77
Thanks to you all for your comments!
 

robunos

You're Mad, You Are.....
Senior Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,728
Reaction score
7
A report by a USAF official on the Chinese Airforce is as "official" as it gets. It might be a reference to the putative "Lavi" origins and rebirth with Russian engine....
Agreed! That's what made it dubious to me too. But Paul_MM seems to trust the source for it, and besides, one can assume that in our times of political correctness and obvious American focus on the potentially huge Chinese markets, there may be a desire not to pick names that are too derogatory so as to flatter the new prefered commercial partner... ::)
That's good enough for me... :D

The FIREBIRD as a Phoneix of the Lavi connection is pretty nice. I'm still hoping the T-50 will be named FLYHALF to heep the Su-27 Rugby positions series naming going (FLANKER, FULLBACK).
I hadn't picked up on the rugby dimension to 'Flanker'. I'd always assumed it to be an allusion to the Soviets 'pulling a flanker' on the USA by using US data obtained by espionage in the Su-27's design... ::)

cheers,
Robin.
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
from Soviet Air Power 1982. "Fishbed M" isn't all-wheather fighter. What is "Fishbed M"?
 

Attachments

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/files/document_conversions/89801/DOC_0001188755.pdf ... DoD/ASCC designation had soviet guided bombs also. Any info abou it?
 

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,376
Reaction score
621
Nagumo said:
from Soviet Air Power 1982. "Fishbed M" isn't all-wheather fighter. What is "Fishbed M"?

-M Not used in the ASCC system as too easily confused with "N" phonetically. Also -I not used due to visual confusion with -J.
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
but DoD system used "M" ... "Ram M" for M-17 Mystic A
 

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,376
Reaction score
621
Different. RAM was a sequential designation system used by DOD analysts for prototypes seen at Zhukovsky, no-one was expecting fighter pilots to be shouting "RAM-M on my six" over their radio.
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
used NATO ASCC designators also for poland a czech variants of soviet planes, like Lim-6 or Il-14FG (An-14FG)?
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
FIDDLER C is Tu-128UT (source Tu-128 Fiddler, Alan Dawes, Sergey Burdin, Nikolai Popov)
 

Jemiba

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
7,994
Reaction score
150
Nagumo said:
used NATO ASCC designators also for poland a czech variants of soviet planes, like Lim-6 or Il-14FG (An-14FG)?
I think so. Especially as even for experienced western aircrews (and probably eastern, too !), it would
have been very difficult to tell a MiG-17 from a Lim-5 or 6. AFAIk, the reporting name for the Chinese
Shenyang J-5 is "Fresco", too, although there probably isn't a great danger anymore to mix it up with
a "real" MiG-17.
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
new codenames for chinese missiles:

CSA-9 = HQ-9

CSS-9 mod 1
CSS-9 mod-x-2
CSS-X-12
CSS-14 mod-x-1
CSS-14 mod-x-2
CSS-X-15
CSS-X-16

what is original designation for these missiles?
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
Mantis A = early designation for Yak-30
Mantis B = Yak-32

source: publicaciones.defensa.gob.es/docs/default-source/.../raa_260.pdf?sfvrsn...
 

AM

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
206
Reaction score
2
Hi all

http://ruslet.webnode.cz/prilohy/zapadni-kody/
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
List of codenames:

http://www.inlichtingendiensten.nl/militair/isam1983-04.pdf
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
DR-2 = DBR-1 Jastreb-1 (Tu-123)
DR-3 = VR-3 Reys (Tu-143)
DR-X-4 = Pchela

(DR-1 must be La-17)

http://www.inlichtingendiensten.nl/militair/isam1983-08.pdf
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
http://www.inlichtingendiensten.nl/militair/isam1983-04.pdf

„Foxbat-B mod = gewijzigde luchtinlaten, pods aan weerszijden luchtinlaten, di-electr. paneel op voorrand rechter kielvlak, gezien met MBRs“
„Foxbat-D mod = zelfe modificaties als –B mod, mogelijk MBRs“
„Fencer-C mod = zoals „C“ met gewijzigd antenne-bestand; gezien met MBRs in 7-pylon configurate“

Can anybody there Dutch? I can not translate it. What is "MBR"?
 

Arjen

It's turtles all the way down
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
2,293
Reaction score
57
Nagumo said:
http://www.inlichtingendiensten.nl/militair/isam1983-04.pdf

„Foxbat-B mod = gewijzigde luchtinlaten, pods aan weerszijden luchtinlaten, di-electr. paneel op voorrand rechter kielvlak, gezien met MBRs“
modified air intakes, pods on both sides of air intakes, di-electric panel on leading edge of right fin, seen with MBRs
„Foxbat-D mod = zelfde modificaties als –B mod, mogelijk MBRs“
same modifications as -B mod, possibly MBRs
„Fencer-C mod = zoals „C“ met gewijzigd antenne-bestand; gezien met MBRs in 7-pylon configuratie“
as „C“ with modified antenna-array; seen with MBRs in 7-pylon configuration

Can anybody there read Dutch? I can not translate it. What is "MBR"?
MBR could mean Multiple Bomb Rack; not something I would expect on a MiG-25.
<edit>Found several MiG-25 strike variants in the Putnam-MiG by Gunston & Gordon, so Multiple Bomb Rack seems to be OK.
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
Foxbat B mod = MiG-25RBF and RBT
Foxbat D mod = MiG-25RBSh
 

Arjen

It's turtles all the way down
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
2,293
Reaction score
57
From 'The Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft - 1875-1995' by Bill Gunston, Osprey 1995: ASCC-names matched to MiG-25 subtypes.

Foxbat-A: MiG-25P
Foxbat-B: MiG-25RB, MiG-25RBT
Foxbat-C: MiG-25PU, MiG-25RU
Foxbat-D: MiG-25RBF, MiG-25RBK, MiG-25RBS, MiG-25RBSh
Foxbat-E: MiG-25PD, MiG-25PDS
Foxbat-F: MiG-25BM
 

AM

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
206
Reaction score
2
Hi

From "Military Power of the People's Republic of China 2009" (Annual Report to Congress)

YJ-82 = CH-SS-N-7
 

AM

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
206
Reaction score
2
hi

North Korean missiles

KN-01 Geum Seang-1 (P-15 copy)
KN-02 Toksa (9M79 copy)
KN-03 ?
KN-04 ?
KN-05 ?
KN-06 SAM (S-300 copy)
KN-07 Musudan (Hwasong-10) IRBM
KN-08 Rodong-C (Hwasong-13) IRBM
KN-09 ASM (Kh-35U copy)
KN-10 SAM
KN-11 Bukgeukseong-1 SLBM
KN-12 ?
KN-13 ?
KN-14 Hwasong-14 ICBM
 

AM

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
206
Reaction score
2
hi all

Who will help to identify the missiles in the first DOD system for the soviet missiles?
T-1 R-1 or R-5 ???
T-1A R-12
T-2 ? (may be errorious identification)
T-3 R-7
T-3 Mk 1 ?
T-3 Mk 2 may be R-7PS "Sputnik" SLV
T-3A ? ICBM
T-3A Mk 1 ? ICBM (may be R-7A)
T-3A Mk 2 ? ICBM (or may be "Vostok" SLV)
T-4 ? IRBM
T-4A ? ICBM
T-5 Rheinbote copy
T-5A ? IRBM
T-5B --> FROG-1
T-5C --> FROG-2
T-5D --> FROG-3 ???
T-5E --> FROG-4
T-6 ? SAM
T-6A ? SAM
T-7 ? SAM
T-7A R-11 (Scud-A)
T-8 --> SA-2

From Horace Jacobs and Eunice Engelke Whitney "Missile and Space Projects Guide", 1962
 

Apophenia

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,109
Reaction score
45
I've got a few ... and a few possibilities:

T-1 = M-101; R-5M; 8A62/8K51; SS-3 'Shyster'

T-1A = R-12; 8K63; SS-4 'Sandal'

T-3 = M-104; R-7; 8K71/8K78; SS-6 'Sapwood'

The T-2 may be the R-2; 8Zh38; SS-2 'Sibling'. The T-4 has a very early 'M' designation (M102) -- perhaps the R-3 (and its winged form T-4 ILN)? The T-4A could be the 1949 Albring G-3 (or its EKR derivative).

I've seen 'Skud A' for the T-3A but assume that to be a typo for T-7A: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/rockets_icbm.html

On the SAMs, KB-1's S-25 Berkut (SA-1 'Guild') series would be obvious candidates. The T-6 booster arrangement sounds rather like the 2K11 Krug ???
 

AM

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
206
Reaction score
2
Hi all

CADS-N-2 may bee 9M337/9M340 Sosna-RA missile (for the 3K-89 Palash ship-defense system)
 

AM

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
206
Reaction score
2
Hi all

Who can tell about temporary (?) codes for ground equpment. For Example Towed Howitzer M1987 (= 2A65 Msta-B howitzer) or MRL M1964 (=BM-21 Grad). This NATO code or DOD (DIA) code?
 

Nagumo

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
Codenames for soviet guided bombs (GB):

GB-1 - probably KAB-500L http://www.stichtingargus.nl/bvd/m/isam1983-08.pdf side 17
 
Top