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Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carrier

TinWing

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Shortly after the recommissioning of the ex-Hermes as the the INS Viraat in 1987, there were reports from India of long term plans for a 4 carrier fleet,with two new construction hulls and both ex-Hermes/Viraat and ex-Leviathan/Vikrant being retained in service until the late 1990s.

A contract was signed with DCN for the design of a large conventional carrier, although although it is unclear if the contract was signed in 1988 or 1989. The tonnage of the design has been variously quoted at 25,000 or 28,000 tons, although there is some indication that the figure was closer to 35,000 or 40,000 tons. In any event, IN's carrier aspirations were directed towards a smaller Garibaldi-class based design in the early 90s, reportedly of 17,000 tons displacement before mid-to late 90s reports of a 24,000 ton design.

The first concrete indication of a collaboration with DCN was a model of a conventional, CATOBAR carrier show at the IDEX show in 1999. At the time, the displacement was quoted as 32,000 tons, although it is unclear whether this was a standard or full load figure. The model in question depicted a flight deck arrangement similar to the Charles de Gaulle, complete with the distinctive, trapezoidal elevators and an entirely French radar fit. The island, placed between the elevators, with an outwardly flared shape, resembled that of the contemporary DCN "BIP" LHD proposals.
 

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TinWing

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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

In 2000, the Japanese publication "Ships of the World" published a quarter view drawing of the "Air Defense Ship," depicting a hybrid vessel with a jet blast deflector, and possibly a catapult, on the angled deck and a ex-Hermes style ski jump forward. The details are otherwise similar to the 1999 IDEX model. A full load displacement of 33,000 tons was quoted in 2001, with a length of 250 meters and a beam of 42 meters - a figure which indicated the extreme width of the flight deck.
 

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TinWing

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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

In 2002, M. Mazumdar published the below drawing of the ADS, apparently based on yet another official model, released by Cochin Shipyard (CSL) in 2001, which also appears below. The details differ significantly between the model and the later drawing. The hawser arrangements and shape of the forward flight deck now resemble the ex-Hermes/Viraat more than the Charles de Gaulle and the radar depicted is now Russian, rather than French, and the elevators have lost the distinctive trapezoidal shape.. Length is now quoted as 252 meters and beam has increased to 56 meters. Various displacement figures have been given, from 37,500 tonnes to 40,000 tons full load, but it is clear that the size of the ship is increasing. The name "Vikrant" was apparently in use from at least 2004 onward.

It is worth noting that Ian Sturton in Jane's Fighting Ships based his own drawing on M. Mazumdar's.

Keep in mind that the model (2001) predates the drawing (2002).
 

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TinWing

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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

It is unclear as to why the designation of the project was changed in 2006 to the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC), although it clear that the general design of the ski jump, which now projects over the flight deck, resembles that of the abortive Soviet aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk. Beam is typically quoted at 58 meters, but it is now certain that overall length including the immense projecting ski jump greatly exceeds 252 meters! Full load displacement most likely falls in the mid 40,000 ton range. The 2004 contract with Fincantieri has not apparently effected the overall outward configuration of the design, only the propulsion layout, indicating that the original DCN contract most likely did not cover detail design. The latest illustrations indicate the addition of a phased array radar and a long range search radar that resembles Smart-L, or a similar Western design, more than the Russian "Top Plate"/Fregate radar.
 

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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

excellent evolutionary posts. Here is the story of how the ADS morphed into the IAC
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/History/2000s/Prakash.pdf

from the horse's mouth I might add.
 
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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

It is unclear as to why the designation of the project was changed in 2006 to the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC), although it clear that the general design of the ski jump, which now projects over the flight deck, resembles that of the abortive Soviet aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk.

I think you should clarify this post though. How does the resemblance to Ulyanovsk make this project any less indigenous, as your post seems to imply?

The general design of the ski jump will obviously show the soviet STOBAR influence. Refer to the monograph written by Arun Prakash.
 
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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

The latest illustrations indicate the addition of a phased array radar and a long range search radar that resembles Smart-L, or a similar Western design, more
It will be a derivative of MF-STAR, developed with the Israelis.
 
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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

It has also been delayed till 2014 as the hull construction was held up due to the non availability of the bulbous bars for the new Integrated Hull Outfitted and Painted (IHOP) construction of the hull.

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories41.htm
 

TinWing

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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

avatar said:
The latest illustrations indicate the addition of a phased array radar and a long range search radar that resembles Smart-L, or a similar Western design, more
It will be a derivative of MF-STAR, developed with the Israelis.
Indeed, but the larger rotating search radar might very well be the SELEX RAN 40L - much like the fit on the P15A, although nothing is certain. The relative size would lead to me to believe that the search radar is in the Smart-L/RAN 40L performance category (400km range) and not the much smaller 200km range 3D-Star (aka EL/M-2238).
 

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Well the angled deck must be of a certain length depending on the speed and weight of the aircraft landing. If it started out aimed at recovery of slow machines like the Alize and light jets like the Tejas then it would be possible to keep the overall length of the ship down, if using catapults.
That said the early French model has a nasty clash between the forward catapult and the angled deck run. Fine if aircraft are not lined up behind the blast deflector for launch, and you recover only after the forward catapult has launched its machine.

The latest design might well have three factors forcing its size upwards.
1 the move to the Mig29 variant means higher landing weights and possibly speeds too, so a longer angled deck is needed.
2. the move to a ski-ramp instead of a catapult requires more length for the run up, if your unwilling to push the start of the run up back onto the angled deck any further then you have to increase length.
3. Mig29 again and with twin engines more fuel is burnt and more maintenence, spares etc..is required, so a larger ship is likely the result.

curious thought at 58m wide and 252m long its rather close to the old Ark Royal, but of course only one hanger so beam on the waterline could be less for similar levels of stability. Deck edge lifts are another curiosity, since that pushes up the freeboard needed, old RN studies prefered 24ft (7.32m) of freeboard for a deck edge lift but on the Implacable modernisation felt a 23.5ft (7.16m) freeboard permitted such a lift location.
 
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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

Indeed, but the larger rotating search radar might very well be the SELEX RAN 40L - much like the fit on the P15A, although nothing is certain. The relative size would lead to me to believe that the search radar is in the Smart-L/RAN 40L performance category (400km range) and not the much smaller 200km range 3D-Star (aka EL/M-2238).
like I said it is a derivative and larger.

In fact if power requirements can be met , I don;t see why a navalised version of DRDO's LRTR which itself is based on the Green Pine cannot be used.

As an aside,

You guys would remember that the Ulyanovsk could have ended up with a version of the sky watch
 
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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

The latest design might well have three factors forcing its size upwards.
eminently possible.

but don't forget reason no:
4. Naval Tejas is underpowered unless Kaveri K 10+ comes online . longer run up to the ski jump required there as well.

5. A catapult will have to be retro fitted for simultaneous launches.
 

robunos

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from http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories41.htm

The 273 meter long, 30 year old 48,500 ton Gorshkov's keel was laid in 1976 at the Nikolayev Shipyard now in Ukraine, and when commissioned, it operated 14 Yakovlev Yak-141 vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) Fighters, eight Yak-38 Forger VTOL fighters, as well as 16 Kamov Ka-25 and Ka-252RLD Hormone and Ka- 252PS Helix anti-submarine warfare (ASW), reconnaissance and search and- rescue....
is this a typo??, i thought the Yak-141 never entered service... ???

cheers,
Robin.
 

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robunos said:
from http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories41.htm

is this a typo??, i thought the Yak-141 never entered service... ???
Certainly. Only two Yak-141s were ever built.
 
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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

AFAIK one of the kiev class was used as a test bed for the Yak... that's were this hyper polation nonsense is coming from.
 

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Baku did test the Yak-41, one even crashed to its flight deck. Baku was intended to operate the Yak-41 as its main aircrafts and to boost this capacity even further plans for fitting skijump to the bow (clear away the Bazalts) existed in the soviets days already.
The numbers listed above propably comes from the intended numbers of Yak-41 to been embarked but with 14 Yak-41, there is no room for 8 Yak-38s (which suprisingly was the number that Baku often carried that older plane).
 
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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

Baku did test the Yak-41, one even crashed to its flight deck. Baku was intended to operate the Yak-41 as its main aircrafts and to boost this capacity even further plans for fitting skijump to the bow (clear away the Bazalts) existed in the soviets days already.

you are right . It was the Baku. Confirmed.
 

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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

robunos said:
from http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories41.htm

The 273 meter long, 30 year old 48,500 ton Gorshkov's keel was laid in 1976 at the Nikolayev Shipyard now in Ukraine, and when commissioned, it operated 14 Yakovlev Yak-141 vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) Fighters, eight Yak-38 Forger VTOL fighters, as well as 16 Kamov Ka-25 and Ka-252RLD Hormone and Ka- 252PS Helix anti-submarine warfare (ASW), reconnaissance and search and- rescue....
is this a typo??, i thought the Yak-141 never entered service... ???

cheers,
Robin.
Indeed, the prolonged Yak-141 only produced two development airframes, but the intention had always been to retrofit all 4 Kievs with modifications similar to the current Gorshkov modernization. In hindsight, it seems likely that the original Soviet-era MiG-29K was a most seen as a backup to the Yak-141, which might have operated alongside the Su-33 from the larger ex-Tblisi/Kuznetsov.
 

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gollevainen said:
Baku did test the Yak-41, one even crashed to its flight deck. Baku was intended to operate the Yak-41 as its main aircrafts and to boost this capacity even further plans for fitting skijump to the bow (clear away the Bazalts) existed in the soviets days already.

Do you mean this conversion? She retains the SSM´s and adds an AEW component to her airwing. Mmm, I wonder how these turboprop ariplanes would take off without catapults.
Coming back to the topic, the IAC/ADS/WTF features a curious layout of the landing and take off tracks, obviously imposed by the aftermost launching position.

Regards from Seville
 

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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

In hindsight, it seems likely that the original Soviet-era MiG-29K was a most seen as a backup to the Yak-141, which might have operated alongside the Su-33 from the larger ex-Tblisi/Kuznetsov.
I disagree , the soviets realised that all this VTOL stuff would never be able to match USN fighters in aerial combat. the Orel project had just been reactivated with the Ulyanovsk. They wanted better fighters anyway and while the Su-33 was more capable, the Mig 29k was smaller and therefore you could carry more of those for fleet defense, aerial combat etc. You would also have the Hi-lo mix, that you rightly pointed out, but not the only reason why the Mig-29 k was useful.
In that sense the Mig 29 k was a replacement for the navalised flogger and not a backup for the Yak-141, which probably would have operated from smaller Kievs anyway. let's not mix up the issues.
 

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Actually the Yak-141 was quite critical plane in the Soviet carrier plans.
According to some russian sources, during the development phase of Kuznetsov class, a great deal of armswrestling was made between those who advocated the future VSTOL plane and with those who wanted full conventional carrier aviation. The VSTOL lobby didn't see the neccerity for the big carriers at all and thus the earlier efforts (pr. 1160 and 1153) were tacked to down. The other lobby was however presistent and thus the Orel was reactivated in slightly smaller (tough Kuznetsov actually being larger than the pr. 1153) version which was to carry 40 aircrafts. This was what eventually led to Kuznetsov. Intially the carriers would have carried conventional planes, mainly Su-27Ks and MiG-29K and the ships would have been fitted catabults. There are existing drawings of this configuration.
However the VSTOL lobby was still strong and the political believe and hype for the upcomming Yak-141 was so massive that the new carriers, altough being orginally designed for the conventional planes was to be operated solely(!) with the VSTOL planes. The catabults were deleted and a Ski-jump was fitted instead so that the new VSTOL plane could take of with larger loads. Somewhere between the development and building phase of the first of the ships, Tblisi it was discovered that the conventional jets, for which the ship was orginally designed could take-of from the ship using the ski-jump as well. As there were angled flightdeck and arrestor wires being designed already the flightgroup was suddenly boosted up with the more powerfull conventional jets.

The soviet era numbers of the airgroup calls for Su-27K and Yak-141 but Yak-141 was never tested onboard the Kuznetsov, instead both Su-27Ks and MiG-29K were and the latter was not choosen for the main aircraft type for solely political reasons, othervice it would have been far ideal plane for the limited aircraft handeling capabilities of the carrier.
 
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*soviets realised*


believe me, the Ulyanovsk was not being built keeping the Yak-141 in mind.
 

gollevainen

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Nope, tough in the intial development phase it was possiple that Yak-41 could be part of the flightgroup, hence the skijump in the bow instead of catabults. There hardly is any other factors that supports that solution.

But I was talking about the orgins of the Kuznetsov class and Yak-41 influence for it.
 

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Re: Air Defense Ship (ADS)/Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC)/Vikrant-class Carri

gollevainen said:
The soviet era numbers of the airgroup calls for Su-27K and Yak-141 but Yak-141 was never tested onboard the Kuznetsov, instead both Su-27Ks and MiG-29K were and the latter was not choosen for the main aircraft type for solely political reasons, othervice it would have been far ideal plane for the limited aircraft handeling capabilities of the carrier.
Actually, there were many practical reasons why the MiG-29M-based MiG-29K wasn't chosen, namely the unresolved issues associated with structural use of Al-Li. At about the same time, Boeing substantial redesigned the 777, removing Al-Li from its construction. If Boeing failed to successfully employ Al-Li construction, it seems likely that MiG would have encountered similar difficulties in the MiG-29M/K. Of course, the MiG-29M/K was far more weight critical than the 777 airliner, and Al-Li construction was a major rationale behing the MiG-29M/K, in part because the Soviet-era aerospace sector trailed behind the West so much in CFC material engineering.

Then of course, there were the financial issues effecting the Soviet Union at the time - necessitating a choice between the Su-27K and MiG-29K instead of simultaneous procurement. It would seem that the Yak-141 might have briefly outlasted the MiG-29K, and given the choice between the two types, the V/STOL Yak-141 offered the greater operational flexibility. Keep in mind that V/STOL type would be able to launch in recover in weather that would keep a STOBAR type grounded - a greater consideration for the Soviets than the modern Indian Navy.
 
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Aha! here's a nice IAC model ;D




http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/AeroIndia2009/shiv/p2120014.jpg.html
 

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so if it was launched, why is there a giant hole in the deck and no island?
 

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Because ships are often launched once the hull is water tight. Further work is done tied up at dock, while the dry dock is free for the next hull.
 

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Here she is in the water.


 

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And today she was allowed to leave the dock !

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/ins-vikrant-undocked/article7301993.ece

India, on Wednesday, crossed a major milestone in defence shipbuilding when the maiden indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant was undocked on completion of structural work at the Cochin Shipyard.

The carrier is slated for induction in end-2018.

Senior officials and workers of the public sector yard witnessed the undocking, done around 2 pm.

Problems with the dock gate and siltation at the gate mouth had forced the yard to postpone the undocking a few times earlier.

This time around, flooding of the dock and ballasting of the ship had begun on Monday itself. Once the vessel was floated over 8 metres of water pumped into the dock, the floodgate was overturned, after which Vikrant was pulled out by tugs.

Vikrant, weighing about 22,000 tonnes now, will continue to be outfitted for over a year and a half now before the basin and sea trials begin ahead of delivery.

"Almost 90 per cent of works below the fourth deck, all underwater works, is over. Major equipment have gone in. Cabling, piping, electrical works, heat and ventilation works will take place now. Delivery of systems and components for the aviation complex designed by the Russian Nevoske design bureau is expected anytime now," said an official.

The undocking is part of the second phase of work on the carrier, which is expected to be complete by 2017, when the basin trials will get under way.
 

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Nice to see it finally built although I do find the design a bit of a mix and match with the Russian layout applied to an Italian hull, those lifts look tiny compared with most modern carriers but they do appear well protected by the elements which may be a local requirement for Indian Ocean operations. Wonder how long they will take to fit her out as would be nice to see her completed and with an Air Group aboard.
I noticed the Indian Government had early this year sanctioned the resumption of the IAC2 design and the US had been courting them with the potential of EM-Cats so we may see a quite different IAC2 design develop that's configured for CATOBAR (Although that would mean that their 3 carriers are all quite different which will be a bit of a logistical and training minefield for them !).
 

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Geoff_B said:
those lifts look tiny compared with most modern carriers but they do appear well protected by the elements which may be a local requirement for Indian Ocean operations.

The Indian Ocean is the calmest ocean in the world. The narrow lifts are probably because they are easier to build than wider ones. Start off small and work their way up. It will limit the air wing but. Looks like they won’t be able to fit Hawkeyes onto those lifts.
 

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Despite Northrop Grumman's efforts, I don't think anyone is convinced that the Hawkeye can routinely and safely operate from STOBAR carriers at useful operating weights.
But I wouldn't bet on a Hawkeye not being able to fit on those elevators. They are pretty narrow, but a folded E-2 is only about 8.9 meters wide. A MiG-29K folded is 7.8 meters and the Tejas/LCA is about 8.2 meters, and this ship is supposed to be able to handle both of those aircraft. It would only take a little extra width to fit a Hawkeye.
 

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CGI video showing her in operation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3JdEPuMBgs&feature=player_embedded
(h/t bobbymike)
 

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Grey Havoc said:
CGI video showing her in operation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3JdEPuMBgs&feature=player_embedded
(h/t bobbymike)
But still with Naval F-15 !?? :eek:
 
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