AGM-109 / BGM-109 Tomahawk / Gryphon Concepts, Projects and Prototypes

[Scott Kenny]

I believe it's on the ground's that rather saturating defences with low-flying subsonic missiles are a challenge in itself to neutralize, stealth missiles like the AGM-129 are costly compared to the Tomahawk missile and can be utilized by the means of a number of surface vessels and submarines compared to the AGM-129s singular launch platform being the B-52.

Conversely, the newest blocks of Tomahawks have been given a stealth chine.

 

[jsport]

perfect to outfit the Goldner fleet battleships along w./ guns i been preaching for yrs.

 

[kqcke for you]

Conversely, the newest blocks of Tomahawks have been given a stealth chine.

And way more stuff ....

 

[Scott Kenny]

And way more stuff ....

Yes, but we were talking about stealth missiles.

 

[kqcke for you]

Yes, but we were talking about stealth missiles.

Yes and a more hidden engine inlet or reduced Control surfaces doesn't help ?

 

[Scott Kenny]

Yes and a more hidden engine inlet or reduced Control surfaces doesn't help ?

If that was actually included on top of the Chine, then yes that'd help.

The Chine is the obvious change.

 

[kqcke for you]

If that was actually included on top of the Chine, then yes that'd help.

The Chine is the obvious change.

Yes later on those came too

 

[FroggyFrog]

Some interesting pictures on loading the W80 nuclear warhead into the Tomahawk, also from the SDASM Flickr like most of the other pictures here.

 

[NMaude]

Some interesting pictures on loading the W80 nuclear warhead into the Tomahawk, also from the SDASM Flickr like most of the other pictures here.

I suppose that was a specially instrumented dummy W80 used in one of the test-flights to see how a real W80 would handle the Tomahawk's operational environment.

 

[chris707-2]

Just a very preliminary impression of the forward-swept wing Tomahawk that was apparently seen at the start of the Iranian operation:

 

[zjz]

The Evolution of Cruise Missiles: Redefining Battlefield Dominance​

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2aEWpBBkjc

 

[zjz]

Cruise Missile System Design Insights
https://www.scribd.com/document/552356351/6-1981-902

 

[zjz]

I may have posted this before, but I suppose there is no harm to have a re-post of something that contains great information :

AGM 109 / BGM 109 Tomahawk

https://www.scribd.com/document/421026585/Wms130d1-agm-109-Bgm-109-Tomahawk

 

[Winchester]

Time for some stupid questions. I'm trying to build a complete GLCM flight (so I can use them as ground units in Sea Power), and I'm trying to sort out what kinds of supporting vehicles I need for the unit. My best reference so far is a 1992 treatise on all of the USAF cruise missile programs (Matador, Mace, and Gryphon) that at the very back lists the following:

4 TELs with tractors
2 LCCs with tractors
1 Wrecker
10 Security Police Vehicles
5 Supply Vehicles

My problem right now is what "Security Police Vehicles" to use and what the "Supply vehicles" would have been.

I have pictures from 1986-ish of HMMWVs with a GLCM unit so that's a very likely option for the late term, possibly even the early term if the USAF pulled the "why are we waiting for the Army to come to the obvious conclusion?" card. I *think* the alternative is either CUCVs or Cadillac Gage Peacekeepers (though I think those were mostly used for the strategic missile fields stateside?)

I'm also fairly sure that at least one of the "Supply vehicles" would be a 2 1/2-ton M49 fuel truck, maybe two (since the flight usually split in halves during transit). But what about the rest? Does anyone have any ideas here?

(I may have to scour Youtube for old informational videos to find out more, actually).

 

[Tomahawk missile fan]

Some interesting pictures on loading the W80 nuclear warhead into the Tomahawk, also from the SDASM Flickr like most of the other pictures here.

Beautiful W80 Nuclear Warhead!

 

[NMaude]

I'm wondering if Raytheon, the USN and USAF are giving serious consideration to developing a new AGM-109? It shouldn't much structural modifications to give a Tomahawk the dorsal mounting points (Hopefully retractable launch lugs like those of the AGM-88G) for airborne carriage?​

 

[Scott Kenny]

I'm wondering if Raytheon, the USN and USAF are giving serious consideration to developing a new AGM-109? It shouldn't much structural modifications to give a Tomahawk the dorsal mounting points (Hopefully retractable launch lugs like those of the AGM-88G) for airborne carriage?​

Unlikely, IMO.

Because AGM-158 exists.

 

[TomS]

I have pictures from 1986-ish of HMMWVs with a GLCM unit so that's a very likely option for the late term, possibly even the early term if the USAF pulled the "why are we waiting for the Army to come to the obvious conclusion?" card. I *think* the alternative is either CUCVs or Cadillac Gage Peacekeepers (though I think those were mostly used for the strategic missile fields stateside?)

This site says the interim vehicles used in 1982 for stateside training were Chevy Blazers.

https://www.usafpolice.org/glcm-program.html
One of the pics on that page also shows a Peacekeeper. Some definitely did serve at air bases in Germany.

 

[Winchester]

This site says the interim vehicles used in 1982 for stateside training were Chevy Blazers.

https://www.usafpolice.org/glcm-program.html
One of the pics on that page also shows a Peacekeeper. Some definitely did serve at air bases in Germany.

I asked the same questions over on Steel Soldiers, a forum for military truck enthusiasts, and one of them was local to Greenham Commons and had a bunch of pictures.

Chevy Blazers were indeed forward deployed and used until the very end of the GLCM deployments (I've got video from an exercise in 1988 confirming it), *and* I got confirmation that basically all of the unidentified "supply trucks" were M923 five-ton dropside trucks.

At present, my best guess for the tactical organization of the mobile units looks like this:

One flight = two elements.
Each element will have one Launch Control Center (with MAN tractor) and two Transporter Erector Launchers (with MAN tractors); one 5-ton general supply truck (with water buffalo trailer); one 5-ton truck with fuel tanks and a generator trailer; and five security vehicles (Blazers, HMMWVs, or local equivalents).
One of the elements will have another supply truck and a 10-ton MAN wrecker (to unwreck the missile trucks).

Squadron command contains another 10-ton MAN wrecker, at least six security vehicles, and at least six 5-ton trucks, four of which carry large shelters on their beds. All the security vehicles from the picture were hauling trailers, presumably loaded with gear for setting up camp. From footage out of Germany I identified what looked like a 2 ½-ton assigned to a decontamination unit (they were hosing down an LCC that passed by their location while relocating). It *might* have been an older 5-ton though.

 

[zjz]

Title	Reducing Cost/Schedule for TOMAHAWK All-Up-Round Program
Organization	NAVAIR, PEO (CU), PMA-280
Team Name	TOMAHAWK All-Up-Round Program Team
Topics	Reducing Cost/Schedule for TOMAHAWK All-Up-Round Program

https://www.secnav.navy.mil/rda/One...TypeId=0x010057B6DD6480C55544A085645E7A087E96

 

[spikedpsycho]

Navy original proposed Fasthawk or Hystrike concept was indelible aim replace the Tomahawk. With something faster.

A modded tomahawk need new engine or mod the rear section so intakes accommodate scoop wrapping around all sides for air flow. An ultra fine afterburner and extending fuselage to 23 feet still fit in a VLS cell.

 

[Sferrin]

Navy original proposed Fasthawk or Hystrike concept was indelible aim replace the Tomahawk. With something faster.

A modded tomahawk need new engine or mod the rear section so intakes accommodate scoop wrapping around all sides for air flow. An ultra fine afterburner and extending fuselage to 23 feet still fit in a VLS cell.



View attachment 819086

This was not a "modded" Tomahawk. It was a completely new design.

 

[NMaude]

This was not a "modded" Tomahawk. It was a completely new design.

That design IIRC dates from the late 1990s.

 

[xena]

Looks like the Russian P-800 Oniks.

 

[Sferrin]

Looks like the Russian P-800 Oniks.

Not really. Like saying P-800 looks like Talos.

 

[NMaude]

Looks like the Russian P-800 Oniks.

There is only a vague resemblance to the SS-N-26 Strobile.

 

[Arjen]

SS-N-26 Strobile

= P-800 Oniks (Yakhont for export), had to look it up to be sure. Internal GRAU designation 3M55.
Translating for my own tribe.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

There is only a vague resemblance to the SS-N-26 Strobile.

What is your weird obsession with always using ASCC codenames for Russian gear rather than the actual Russian designations?

 

[NMaude]

What is your weird obsession with always using ASCC codenames for Russian gear rather than the actual Russian designations?

Because I prefer as that is the designations I learned for them growing up towards the end of the Cold War (I was introduced to them in Bill Gunston's book "All the World's Rockets and Missiles".

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Replying to someone using the Russian designation and using the ASCC name in the reply makes it seem you are "correcting" the previous poster.

 

[xena]

Well, but today we know the real designations so I prefer the real ones and they fit perfectly. There were some issues with ASCC designations in the past.

Not really. Like saying P-800 looks like Talos.

Form follows function.

 

[Sferrin]

Form follows function.

LOL! Must be why the P-700 and P-1000 look almost identical.

 

[zjz]

P-700, P-800, PJ-10 (Brahmos), Talos, Sea Dart are all missiles with ramjet propulsion using annular inlet in the centrebody ... all looks similar although they differ in sizes and missions ....

Funnily enough, I cannot remember if the French had an operational system based on the same annular centrebody design even though they are very much into ramjet missiles ....

 

[zjz]

A modified BGM-109 Tomahawk surface-to-surface missile is launched from the vertical launching system (VLS) during VLS testing​

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6348992