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Orionblamblam

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Afghan security forces have lost close to 50k dead since 2014. Adjust that for US population size. That is like half a million battlefield casualties.

The notion that their men just suddenly quit is asinine.

So... not that impressive, then. The US lost 600,000 in the Civil War in much less time when our population was a fraction of what it is now.

As to their men: what do you see on those airfields? Lots of men. Not so many women. Where are *they?*
 

Dilandu

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As to their men: what do you see on those airfields? Lots of men. Not so many women. Where are *they?*
Most likely? They were quickly divorced (as far as I know, Islamic laws allowed divorce to be done literally in several minutes without any officials), and left behind, since after being divorced they are not responsible in any way for their former husbands wrongdoings (again, as far as I know). Nobody would went after them. If they already have children - preferably sons - they would actually have social status similar to widows, i.e. being able to represent themselves, make deals by her own name, ect.
 

Fluff

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Naive question, but where are the C-5s for mass evacuations? Have CRAF jets been activated?
I somehow doubt that there was that level of planning. I would be happy if I was proved wrong though.

In any case, I wonder if the USAF would dare risk any of its remaining C-5s now under the current circumstances.
I’m amazed the c17 took off, will need a thorough inspection before another flight.

basically everyone thought they had weeks, or even months, so no evac fleet on standby, just what happened to be there at the time…

and now no-one can get in…..
 

fightingirish

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My prediction: GEN Mark Milley, who is the current chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS), will retire and be replaced by an USAF General (probably by CSAF Charles Q. Brown Jr.) before the midterms.
 

Grey Havoc

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Orionblamblam

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Nobody would went after them. If they already have children - preferably sons - they would actually have social status similar to widows, i.e. being able to represent themselves, make deals by her own name, ect.

Yeah, I'm sure Talibanistan will be a paradisical wonderland for women.
 

Orionblamblam

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More than "200 hundred" journalists, you say? Wow, if we gave each of those 20,000 journalists a gun and set them loose on the Taliban... what a story THAT would be.
 

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Being realistic, if your a local, if your not already at Kabul airport, then I can’t see how you are going to get there. Foreigners may get rescued by SF, or even escorted by the taliban.
 

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Orionblamblam

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They were quickly divorced (as far as I know, Islamic laws allowed divorce to be done literally in several minutes without any officials), and left behind, since after being divorced they are not responsible in any way for their former husbands wrongdoings (again, as far as I know).

Assume for the sake of argument that that is true. So what we'd have is *thousands* of young men who will drop their wives and children at the drop of a hat.

Hands up: who wants them to be dumped en masse into *your* community?
 

Grey Havoc

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Fluff

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They were quickly divorced (as far as I know, Islamic laws allowed divorce to be done literally in several minutes without any officials), and left behind, since after being divorced they are not responsible in any way for their former husbands wrongdoings (again, as far as I know).

Assume for the sake of argument that that is true. So what we'd have is *thousands* of young men who will drop their wives and children at the drop of a hat.

Hands up: who wants them to be dumped en masse into *your* community?
I dont believe anyone is planning just to scoop up these people at the airport and fly them west…..

are they????
 

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If the US and NATO had wanted to turn Afghanistan into a democracy they should have conquered the country like they did, moved all the mountain men into Strategic Internment Hamlets, and gave out parcels of land to NATO and European adventuers and homesteaders for free. Instead of spending billions paying Afghans to work for them, they could pay their own people to settle in Afghanistan. But that would require going there with a mission to make it a democracy in the first place, not simply defaulting to some hazy, half-baked idea of what Afghanistan "should be" and running on autopilot for 20 years.

The PRC is practicing it in its Uighur/Mongol provinces. No reason it couldn't be done there, but the PRC doesn't seem interested.

Ah yes, Democracy building via internment camps, massive population culling and colonization.

Good grief.

It's an observation, not a passing of moral judgment.

And yes, the United States did it a lot about 150 years ago to break these people called "the Comanche" and "the Cherokee", among others. Steppe folks are a lot like mountain men in that they can be rough dudes, but you don't need to be especially violent, you just gotta put them in a village. The Russians, Chinese, and U.S. Cavalry used plenty of howitzers and wooden war wagons to pin the steppe folks they fought down and built walls around them. But mountain men already live in villages, so you gotta be rougher.

Democracies used to do it all the time. They stopped for some reason, but if you want Afghanistan to be populated with people who think like Americans, you gotta bring in Americans. Duh. You can no more expect the Pashtuns to roll over and accept Christian, secular, urban culture than you can expect the United States to accept Islamic, pious, rural culture.

That's how every nation, and every successful colonization, has ever been built.

Has everyone forgotten the end of World War II? How many Displaced Persons ended up in the U.S.? It went a bit more smoothly because ethnic, old-country type neighborhoods already existed. So the immigrants became invisible after a while.
 

edwest2

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They were quickly divorced (as far as I know, Islamic laws allowed divorce to be done literally in several minutes without any officials), and left behind, since after being divorced they are not responsible in any way for their former husbands wrongdoings (again, as far as I know).

Assume for the sake of argument that that is true. So what we'd have is *thousands* of young men who will drop their wives and children at the drop of a hat.

Hands up: who wants them to be dumped en masse into *your* community?
I dont believe anyone is planning just to scoop up these people at the airport and fly them west…..

are they????

Unnamed source: "Yeah, sure. Why not? Besides, some of these people were assets and uh... that's all I can say."
 

CJGibson

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In October 1963, when Harold Macmillan was handing over the prime ministership to Alec Douglas-Home, he is supposed to have passed on some advice.
"My dear boy, as long as you do not invade Afghanistan you will be absolutely fine," he said.

If we can stay off the politics and concentrate on the news, then the topic can stay in The Bar for now.

Paul, do you have a source for this, it's a cracker. On a par with Reggie Maudling!

Chris
 

sferrin

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You have to wonder... Where all those bodily fit men were when the bad guys made their way in?

Dying, is where they were.
So those were zombies clambering to board those C-17s?

Hmm. Gonna have to watch "World War Z" again...

Afghan security forces have lost close to 50k dead since 2014. Adjust that for US population size. That is like half a million battlefield casualties.

The notion that their men just suddenly quit is asinine.
That's not what he said though is it. He pointed out (rightly so) that those fighting to get OUT of the country were predominantly male. Didn't see many women or kids.
 

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Being realistic, if your a local, if your not already at Kabul airport, then I can’t see how you are going to get there. Foreigners may get rescued by SF, or even escorted by the taliban.
You misspelled "executed".
 

Grey Havoc

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Dilandu

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You misspelled "executed".
Well, our Russian embassy just received assurance that under no circumstances new Afghanistan regime would allow any harm to any foreign citizens (Russians especially, of course). Taliban (terrorist organization, forbidden in Russia) seemingly wanted to play "civilized" at least in big cities. Maybe they learned the lessons of their previous failure?
 
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overscan (PaulMM)

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In October 1963, when Harold Macmillan was handing over the prime ministership to Alec Douglas-Home, he is supposed to have passed on some advice.
"My dear boy, as long as you do not invade Afghanistan you will be absolutely fine," he said.

If we can stay off the politics and concentrate on the news, then the topic can stay in The Bar for now.

Paul, do you have a source for this, it's a cracker. On a par with Reggie Maudling!

Chris
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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I don't believe that discussions of the 'right way' to subjugate a native population belong on this forum.

Also - Rotherham, with its 91% White British population and 3% of Pakistani origin. Yes, some people of Pakistani origin did some bad things there. It doesn't make it a bastion of Islamic State.
 
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Fluff

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You misspelled "executed".
Well, our Russian embassy just received assurance that under no circumstances new Afghanistan regime would allow any harm to any foreign citizens (Russians especially, of course). Taliban (terrorist organization, forbidden in Russia) seemingly wanted to play "civilized" at least in big cities. Maybe they learned the lessons of their previous failure?
My cousin in Nigeria has a special deal, just for you….
 

Grey Havoc

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A quick recap of the disaster over the last 48 hours:

Biden is still on the TV at the moment, it is probably safe to say that it is not going to help him one bit.
 

Grey Havoc

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Fluff

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Unsure if this is the C-17 flight with 800 souls aboard. I'm surprised there are quite a few woman and children who made it.

View: https://twitter.com/beverstine/status/1427353236500058113



View attachment 662706
I’d think these are the Afghan staff and families, not the people running along the runway. They must be very relieved. We will need locals for the forceable future, so I hope we don’t send them back or something equally dumb….
 
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