Afghanistan withdrawal, Bagram Air Base

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I’m not sure comparing collapse rates of failed invasions etc is a valid metric.

clearly a lot of afghans are happy to see taliban back in charge.

as with Iraq, if there’s enough money about, a few dead people every week won’t matter, and war sure provides a lot of $$
 
Those who will lose will be women and those who assisted the foreign military. I hope they can be got out as frankly, we owe it to them and their families. Of all the people to deny entry to, we deny those who help us. B'y shameful imho.
 
Dilandu said:
Rickshaw said:
They collapsed far faster than the Communist regime did. They lasted until the next summer after the Soviet's withdrawal...
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Because pro-Soviet regime have at least some "vision of future" that locals could understood and even agree with. Ideas that "rich peoples should not be allowed to took everything from poor" and "all property should belong to everyone equialy", while obviously flawed, are far easier to traditionalistic, mostly-illiterate Afghan rural population to comprehend, that American complex (and incoherent) ideas. Also, USSR invested quite a lot into actually improving Afghanistan infrastructure: building roads, power plants, hospitals, waterworks. Americans just showered the Afghan elite with money, hoping that "free market would decide". And market decided to stole the money.
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FWIW US built a fair amount of infrastructure, like roads and water infrastructure. It just built them like it would in America instead of like it would in an actually impoverished area, I guess (expectation that maintenance would be done by owners rather than central agency). It also did it while also funding the kleptocrats and installing corrupt people to run the schools, police stations, and ANA battalions. So all the maintenance money for that infrastructure vanished.

America and backing kleptocrat bandits in military misadventures in Asia. Name a more iconic duo. Reading about the KMT, 1950's ROK, and the RVN should probably be required in the State Department.

Well, I guess they read it, they just don't care though.
 
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Dilandu said:
IMHO, the main reasons of the whole collapse were:

* US failed to understood the traditions of tribal politics and warfare in Afghanistan, which assumed that defectors from losing side should be allowed to join the victorious and given some (at least token) representation in ruling. Instead, US went for total destruction of the opposing side.

* US absolutely failed in nation-building. Turns out that abstract ideas of "liberty", "human rights", and "opportunity" by themselves means very little, and, if not supported by actions, are not attractive for non-Europeanized populaion (which is the majority of Afghani). And "pumping in money" and "creating business opportunities" just simply did not work in such situations; it benefits only elite, not to mention, that the only business US managed to create here was illegal drug trade.

* US failed to comprehend the Soviet experience, under the purely ideological cliche that "they failed because of Communism, and therefore this experience is irrelevant for us". Near-paranoid fear of American elite toward any socialist or communist ideas really started to jinx US functioning; you could not just cut away a giant chunk of social, political and economical concepts and trying to pretend they never existed.

As a result... Well, pro-Soviet government in Kabul endured for three years after Soviet troops were withdrawn. Pro-American collapsed in mere days.
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I agree with this Dilandu. Ideological differences that the West failed to properly understand and account for. I would also note that there was probably an impact from Russia & China behind the scenes, as they more than likely wanted to root out any new American influence in the region.
 
thehill.com

Top general warns of possible rise in terrorist threats from Afghanistan

Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, reportedly told U.S. senators on Sunday that officials expect to change their earlier assessments about the rate at which terrorist grou…
thehill.com thehill.com

thehill.com

What happens in Kabul will not stay in Kabul

Both Presidents Trump and Biden made the mistake of making foreign policy on the basis of a bumper sticker, “No Forever Wars.”
thehill.com thehill.com
The entire episode sets the stage for diminution of America’s diplomatic clout. U.S. diplomats were reduced to “urging” the Taliban, via Twitter, to reduce violence. That envoys of the mightiest nation on earth can be duped and its leaders ignored so easily will encourage others to engage in similar duplicitous diplomacy.

Diplomacy not backed by potential use of force is tantamount to skating on thin ice. The Taliban did not care about international legitimacy as much as Biden’s team thought they did.

Having maneuvered American military withdrawal, China, Russia and Pakistan have little reason to keep their word about not recognizing a Taliban regime established by force. They will probably cite the lack of battle in the fall of Kabul as justification for recognition, dealing a further diplomatic blow to the United States.
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Wait just one second please, has the world gone, sorry no need to finish that thought but. The PRC are brainwashing their Muslim citizens and the Taliban think they are going to be good allies? Wot the actual Frisbee?
 
Yes, it increasingly seems like we are living in a 'Alice in Wonderland' style world. Strange bedfellows doesn't even begin to describe it.
 
www.reuters.com

Saudi Arabia urges Taliban to protect lives under 'Islamic principles'

Saudi Arabia on Monday urged Taliban insurgents who seized Afghanistan's capital Kabul, completing a sweep across the country, to preserve lives, property and security as stipulated by "Islamic principles".
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

www.reuters.com

EU to hold meeting on Tuesday to discuss Afghanistan

European Union foreign ministers will hold a crisis meeting on Tuesday to discuss the fall of Afghanistan to the Taliban, the bloc said on Monday, as countries race to evacuate citizens and local staff from a chaotic Kabul airport.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
thehill.com

Taliban fighters gathering weapons from civilians in Kabul: report

Taliban fighters on Monday reportedly began collecting weapons from civilians in Kabul as the insurgent group cements its swift takeover of Afghanistan.”We understand people kept weapons for …
thehill.com thehill.com

thehill.com

National security adviser: Afghan army lacked ‘will’ to defend its country

White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan on Monday defended the Biden administration’s withdrawal from Afghanistan while acknowledging that the country fell to the Taliban much quicker t…
thehill.com thehill.com
 
One A-29B Super Tucano of the "Afghan Air Farce" was shot down while entering Uzbek airspace.
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I deleted the source, because we shouldn't post pictures of POW.
 
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www.reuters.com

Italy diplomats and Afghan helpers return to Rome on military plane

A first plane carrying Italian diplomats and their Afghan assistants arrived in Rome from Kabul on Monday as Prime Minister Mario Draghi vowed all Afghan citizens who assisted Italy's mission in the country would be protected.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

www.reuters.com

India says doors open to Afghan's Sikh and Hindu minorities

India will help members of Afghanistan's tiny Sikh and Hindu community to come to India, the foreign ministry said on Monday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

www.reuters.com

Swiss development agency workers escape Afghanistan on U.S. flight

Switzerland's last three development agency workers have been airlifted from Afghanistan on a U.S. military plane, the foreign ministry said on Monday, adding it is working hard to evacuate local personnel from Kabul.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Note that in the rush to update the articles, the article datelines are not always being properly updated.
 
Seems to me a few points:

1: It's apparent the Afghan military wanted the Taliban to come roaring back and do this all along for reasons Dilandu already elaborated, literally the entire two decades we wasted on these people.

2: WSJ would dish on one POTUS and not say a peep about the other three who started or kept the war going.

3: We as a country need to stop doing these dumb perpetual make-some-mercs-rich wars, full stop. Save our strength for the impending Great War.

4: Why are we betraying everyone who helped us? This is blatantly intentional!

Absolute idiocy that literally amounts to war crimes, this whole nasty business is.
 
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In_A_Dream said:
I would also note that there was probably an impact from Russia & China behind the scenes, as they more than likely wanted to root out any new American influence in the region.
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Not exactly. Afghanistan under Taliban (terrorist organization, forbidden in Russia - our laws required me to mention it) is a big headache for both Russia and China. We have ODKB obligations to support neighbors, like Tajikistan. Frankly, Moscow would prefer status quo as it was before, with low-intencity civil war in Afghanistan.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Better by far if it had been the US behind all of this: the seemingly criminally incompetent decision to announce a quick withdrawl, leaving allies in the lurch *and* a pile of ammo, weapons and supplies behind was actually a devious scheme to bring the Taliban out into the open. Get them to come in... and then spring traps. Bases full of stuff explode. Sudden "accidental" releases of nerve gas and napalm. Ten thousand spider holes spring open and reveal coked-up African mercs.

But that would require not only strategic thinking and bloodthirstiness, it would require a President who was actually *awake.*
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Such absurdly complicated plots works only in particularly bad technotrillers. Authors of good technotrillers follow KISS principle.
 
www.reuters.com

Airlines told to avoid Afghanistan airspace

Afghanistan's aviation authority said on Monday the country's airspace had been "released to the military" and advised airlines to avoid its air corridors, prompting major airlines to divert flights in the wake of the Taliban's takeover of Kabul.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
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