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Orionblamblam

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Such absurdly complicated plots works only in particularly bad technotrillers.
On the other hand, world history has not infrequently thrown up events that would be considered too crazy for fiction.

Indeed. Who would have believed that the same helicopter would be used to evacuate the embassies of both Saigon and Kabul, nearly fifty years apart?
 

Grey Havoc

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edwest2

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The words "catastrophic withdrawal" tells me all I need to know about the credibility of the source. Forget the President. U.S. intelligence had no idea this would happen? Unlike the President, they are shielded by the walls of the Pentagon and "national security."
 

Kat Tsun

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Wait just one second please, has the world gone, sorry no need to finish that thought but. The PRC are brainwashing their Muslim citizens and the Taliban think they are going to be good allies? Wot the actual Frisbee?

Taliban are fairly shrewd pragmatists. Abstract ideological concerns are a rich man's luxury.

So long as the Chinese don't abduct Pashtuns or commence military adventures in Afghanistan, the Taliban don't care too much what they do in their own lands. Since China and Pakistan are pretty good pals, and Russia and China have at least tacitly agreed that they face mutual foes, they shouldn't need to do that. And as long as the Taliban keep any Uighur radical or fellow travelers from interfering in Xinjiang, they shouldn't give the Chinese reason to waltz in and wreck the place (although the PRC would likely do just that, and not bother staying).

The PRC is just buttering them up to get at the lithium ores under Afghanistan's lakes and build railroads for OBOR though.
 

Orionblamblam

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Kat Tsun

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Not quite but close. CH-46 vs CH-47.
Apparently the State Department still operates a number of CH-46Es with support from the USMC, which are also being used in the evacuation.

The US had literally hundreds of aircraft participating in the evacuation from Saigon. Three battalion landing teams, two super carriers, and their associated escorts, and dozens of helicopter carriers.

It's hardly a surprise that one or two of these things would show up again in another evacuation. That said BuNo 154038 was never part of Frequent Wind. This is just a blind person's interpretation of a blurry photograph. The BuNo of the ship on Hancock is clearly 154030 to anyone who can look at it.

In '72 BuNo 154038 was transferred to MARTDS (Marine Corps Air Reserve Training Detachment) New Orleans and likely never saw combat again until the State Department bought it.

Indeed. Who would have believed that the same helicopter would be used to evacuate the embassies of both Saigon and Kabul, nearly fifty years apart?
Not quite but close. CH-46 vs CH-47.

No. The SAME aircraft... Dep't of State Air Wing CH-46 N38TU (BuNo 154038). As shown HERE.

Nah. BuNo 154030 was part of HMM-165 deployed on Hancock with the 2/4, 1/9, and 3/9 Marines and MAG-39.

Joe Baugher's webpage says that 154030 was written off on Dec. 19, 1980. Probably crashed in a training accident.

I'm willing to trust some old Web 1.0 web page more than I am some apparently blind or innumerate Twitterati dude.

That sort of poetic happenstance only happens in movies lol.
 

Orionblamblam

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Fluff

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Such absurdly complicated plots works only in particularly bad technotrillers.
On the other hand, world history has not infrequently thrown up events that would be considered too crazy for fiction.

Indeed. Who would have believed that the same helicopter would be used to evacuate the embassies of both Saigon and Kabul, nearly fifty years apart?
Probably a film in that, with Tom cruise and Tom hanks as the crew brought back to service…..
 

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You know things are about to be hell on earth when people would rather take their chances hanging onto a jet than be left behind when the Taliban shows up.
 

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You have to wonder... Where all those bodily fit men were when the bad guys made their way in?

I hope that all Afghan female soldiers could be prioritized for their resettlement.

Then...

But let's not forget that beyond the waste and the ugly civilization theories from so many international experts, kids and teen did grew-up in a westernized world with aspirational dreams for freedom and prosperity. Let's not take it here from their hands and forget.
 
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Archibald

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Wait just one second please, has the world gone, sorry no need to finish that thought but. The PRC are brainwashing their Muslim citizens and the Taliban think they are going to be good allies? Wot the actual Frisbee?

Taliban are fairly shrewd pragmatists. Abstract ideological concerns are a rich man's luxury.

So long as the Chinese don't abduct Pashtuns or commence military adventures in Afghanistan, the Taliban don't care too much what they do in their own lands. Since China and Pakistan are pretty good pals, and Russia and China have at least tacitly agreed that they face mutual foes, they shouldn't need to do that. And as long as the Taliban keep any Uighur radical or fellow travelers from interfering in Xinjiang, they shouldn't give the Chinese reason to waltz in and wreck the place (although the PRC would likely do just that, and not bother staying).

The PRC is just buttering them up to get at the lithium ores under Afghanistan's lakes and build railroads for OBOR though.

Sometimes I think the PRC presently has
a) the colossal financial / economic resources of America
b) the cold ruthlessness of Brezhnev USSR
+ c) nearly infinite number of young men and women in the 18-48 years bracket (800 million ? 1 billion ?)

...to teach the Afghans a good lesson, once and for all. Succeeding where the British empire, USSR and the USA failed.

Then again, maybe not: in 1979 they failed to break the Vietnamese - after the Americans and French also failed.

Lesson of the day: even if you're a superpower, don't you ever pick a fight with two nations on goddam planet Earth
a) the Afghans
b) the Vietnamese

From their mountains or from their jungle, they can resist nearly an eternity.

Food for thought...
 

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The subtle irony, however comes from the parliament takeover that was seemingly quieter in Afghanistan than in recent Washington...
(Running for cover).
 

sferrin

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The subtle irony, however comes from the parliament takeover that was seemingly quieter in Afghanistan than in recent Washington...
(Running for cover).
Or the transfer before. Or did you conveniently forget the rioting in Washington when Hillary lost? I'll bet we don't see four years of made up conspiracies and kangaroo courts in Afghanistan either.
 

Orionblamblam

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TR1

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You have to wonder... Where all those bodily fit men were when the bad guys made their way in?

Dying, is where they were.
So those were zombies clambering to board those C-17s?

Hmm. Gonna have to watch "World War Z" again...

Afghan security forces have lost close to 50k dead since 2014. Adjust that for US population size. That is like half a million battlefield casualties.

The notion that their men just suddenly quit is asinine.
 

Foo Fighter

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You have to wonder... Where all those bodily fit men were when the bad guys made their way in?

Dying, is where they were.
So those were zombies clambering to board those C-17s?

Hmm. Gonna have to watch "World War Z" again...
..... the part where the scientists inject themselves with covid to get past the zombies perhaps. It might catch on in parts of the world that the vaccination has not.
 

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Wow, Saddam air force 2.0

22 planes and 24 helicpters have fled to Uzbekistan. An Embraer 314 and a MiG-29 collided and crashed during escort.
 

Foo Fighter

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Apparently there were orders not to engage and to cease hostilities.
 

edwest2

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Hmmm... so maybe it went like this?

Unnamed source: "Well, when we first went in it was set to be over in months."

What did people tell the President when it went longer?

"We told him we still had a little clean-up left to do."

How about 5 or 10 years later?

"Well, we briefed him whenever it was relevant."

And how often was it relevant?

"At first, every 4 to 6 months. Then it was every year or so."
 

Grey Havoc

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TomcatViP

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You have to wonder... Where all those bodily fit men were when the bad guys made their way in?

Dying, is where they were.
So those were zombies clambering to board those C-17s?

Hmm. Gonna have to watch "World War Z" again...

Afghan security forces have lost close to 50k dead since 2014. Adjust that for US population size. That is like half a million battlefield casualties.

The notion that their men just suddenly quit is asinine.
To rectify what I wrote, I never had the intend to judge the sacrifices they made as a force. This level of losses is obviously abhorrent.
 
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isayyo2

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Naive question, but where are the C-5s for mass evacuations? Have CRAF jets been activated?
 

Grey Havoc

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Naive question, but where are the C-5s for mass evacuations? Have CRAF jets been activated?
I somehow doubt that there was that level of planning. I would be happy if I was proved wrong though.

In any case, I wonder if the USAF would dare risk any of its remaining C-5s now under the current circumstances.
 
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Grey Havoc

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