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Aerion SBJ

Grey Havoc

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-16/billionaire-s-supersonic-jet-advances-with-factory-plans-airbus
 

mrmalaya

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Flexjet signs for 20 SBJs from Aerion:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/nbaa-flexjet-is-first-fleet-customer-for-aerion-419231/

This is a project with unprecedented momentum.

What engine will they pick I wonder...?
 

Grey Havoc

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Aviation Week story on the announcement: http://aviationweek.com/nbaa-2015/flexjet-order-20-supersonic-jets-boosts-aerion
 

Reaper

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Hopefully they now will pick up the pace!
 

blackkite

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Hi! You can see AS2 movie in this site.
What is AS1?
Powerplant: 3 × turbofans (low bypass ratio), 16,000 lb s.t. each

http://www.aerionsupersonic.com/
 

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Stargazer2006

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blackkite said:
What is AS1?
I don't believe there ever was an "AS1" as such.

The Aerion design started off with a different, twin-jet configuration, which was advertized for a while until they changed to the final trijet one.
I believe the revised design was labeled "AS2" to reflect the fact that it was different and improved, a bit like athe 2.0 version of some software.

For the record, the twinjet project itself didn't originate with Aerion. It started off as the Reno ASSET, which was also studied in V-tail (actually trident tail) configuration at one point. Aerion purchased the program from Reno and developed it from there.
 

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blackkite

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Thanks. I imagined that twin engine design is AS1.
Two engine design : Maximum speed=Mach1.8⇒Three engine design : Maximum speed=Mach1.5.?? ???

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,36.30.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8gx7JFGaQ
 

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Stargazer2006

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blackkite said:
Hmmm.....I made a table to compare......
Gosh! I never realized there was such a huge difference in size! It's truly more than a change of engine number, it's a whole different aircraft.
No wonder they had to indicate the change through a new designation... Thanks blackkite for your efforts.
 

blackkite

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Hi! Previous little strange shape non t-tail design.

Supersonic Quetzalcoatlus northropi . ;)
Of course naming northropi was taken from Jack Northrop.
 

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malipa

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The last design with the horizontal stabilizer in the jet stream is simply idiotic... It is literally the starfighter but then adapted..
 

blackkite

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Oh! TU Delft AE student. :D
How do you think about this project?
 

malipa

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I thinks it is a cool idea and I can see it flying if the company can get enough funding to get through the certification process.
 

blackkite

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Capacity and range of current 3 engine design is almost same as previous 2 engine design, but aircraft size,required engine thrust and cost increase very much and crusind speed decrease.Why?
Boomless speed is only mavh1.2. In addition, engine is not decided still now.
I imagine that drag and sonic boom of this design concept is not so small compared with initial anticipated value. This design is in a pinch?
 

malipa

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Haha I'm only a second years student, but I'll give it a go ;) So The story is that the engines must be smaller but due to the fuselage change in the rear and overall, due to so called 'area ruling', the decrease of efficiency will be made up for with the increase in overall internal volume (And so it can carry more fuel). And yeah the boom helps a lot because it breaks the shock waves in front of the jet decreasing the drag a lot. The drag at Mach 1.4 or 1.5 is a lot higher that of Mach 1.2, since drag increases squared to the speed. If you would leave the boom out and keep the same basic geometry and therefore same drag coefficient, there would act a 1.36 times as big drag force on the jet at mach 1.4 than at mach 1.2. That is a lot to be honest. So yeah the sonic boom is quite essential in this design. If you can increase the range with the boom an 19 percent and fly 17 percent faster, that is quite big achievement.
 

blackkite

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Hmmm....Thanks a lot for professional opinion. :D
I imagine that (1.4×1.4)/(1.2×1.2)=1.36

I can't understand this part.
"If you can increase the range with the boom an 19 percent and fly 17 percent faster, that is quite big achievement. "
Please explain me.
 

malipa

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I got that data from analysing a figure of the aerion site.
 

blackkite

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Anyway we strongly hope the early realization of this quiet supersonic cruising aircraft very much.
Hip-Hip-Hooray Aerion!! :)
So this topic must be moved to aerospace section. ;)

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2015-11-17/flexjet-boosts-supersonic-bizjet-plan-aerion-as2-order
 

sferrin

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I wonder if they'll have to use the Edwards dry lake bed for takeoff. :eek:
 

blackkite

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sferrin said:
I wonder if they'll have to use the Edwards dry lake bed for takeoff. :eek:
Oh AS2 need BLCS same as F-104? Is this one of the reason why AS2 needs one more engines?
 

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Rhinocrates

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blackkite said:
sferrin said:
I wonder if they'll have to use the Edwards dry lake bed for takeoff. :eek:
Oh AS2 need BLCS same as F-104? Is this one of the reason why AS2 needs one more engines?
Here's an article on the redesign:

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2014-05-19/aerion-ssbj-design-becomes-trijet-larger-cabin-more-range

Changes were led by discussions with customers - they wanted larger cabin, longer range and they wanted it sooner. As for the tri-jet layout,

Its trijet configuration yields better runway performance and a lower noise profile, which is “especially important with Stage 5 noise requirements looming,”
 

blackkite

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Thanks a lot.
Maximum speed : Mach 1.5 and 1.6, which is the correct value?

"The selected engine core will be in the 15,000-pound-thrust range–a list that includes the Pratt & Whitney Canada PW800, GE Passport and Rolls-Royce BR710. Aerion plans to announce the winning engine at the NBAA Convention in October."

Already selected?

"Aerion is going forward with the advanced design of the AS2, with detailed design slated to be completed in the middle of next year. It is also continuing testing and recently concluded a series of low-speed wind-tunnel tests at the University of Washington Aeronautical Laboratory that assessed various high-lift flap configurations. "

http://www.pw800.com/en/pw800/
 

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Stargazer2006

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blackkite said:
Anyway we strongly hope the early realization of this quiet supersonic cruising aircraft very much.
Hip-Hip-Hooray Aerion!! :)
So this topic must be moved to aerospace section. ;)
Until some amount of hardware starts being produced, I personally deem it wise to just leave it where it is now!!
 

marauder2048

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Aerion, Lockheed Plan AS2 SSBJ Announcement on Friday
by Chad Trautvetter

December 13, 2017, 10:54 AM


Aerion Corp. and Lockheed Martin today announced they will hold a joint press conference on Friday
in Washington, D.C., along with a GE Aviation executive, to discuss their plans for "exploring the joint development"
of the Aerion AS2 supersonic business jet (SSBJ). “Technologies have matured to the extent we plan to
introduce a renaissance in supersonic flight, beginning with business aviation, due to continuing advances in
performance, efficiency, environmental responsibility and affordability,” the companies said.

Reno, Nevada-based Aerion would not disclose the exact nature of the announcement. Curiously missing from the media
advisory is any mention of Airbus, which forged a partnership with Aerion in September 2014 that
involved an exchange of knowledge and capabilities in design, manufacturing and certification. Since then,
speculation has been that Airbus would eventually become the production partner for the AS2.

Aerion’s publicly known collaboration with GE Aviation has been ongoing since May, when it selected GE
as the engine provider for the AS2’s powerplant. Two months ago, veteran business aviation executive Brian Barents
was promoted as executive chairman of Aerion—a move seen as the next step in bringing its Mach 1.6 business
jet to market. “This strengthens the capability of the Aerion organization by elevating a singularly prominent
industry veteran to further relationships with key decision makers at OEMs, tier-one suppliers and other critical
constituencies,” Aerion chairman Robert Bass said in October. Bass will also be present at Friday's conference.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2017-12-13/aerion-lockheed-plan-as2-ssbj-announcement-friday
 

Mike Pryce

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Wow. It's really yuk looking.

https://www.aerionsupersonic.com/?linkId=100000001622412

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/lockheed-and-aerion-to-develop-supersonic-business-j-444243/

http://news.lockheedmartin.com/2017-12-15-Aerion-and-Lockheed-Martin-Join-Forces-to-Develop-Worlds-First-Supersonic-Business-Jet#assets_20295_128364-117:19434

http://aviationweek.com/awinbizav/lockheed-joins-aerion-advance-supersonic-business-jet

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/941720822032551936
 

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LowObservable

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Would you put your CEO on something that says Lockheed on the side and looks like an F-104?
 

Foo Fighter

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You know, there could be a use in there somewhere.......
 

Archibald

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Supersonic business jets are really flying Bugatti Veyrons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron

They are very fast, insanely expensive millionaire toys, and in the end, essentially pointless. Barely a 300 aircrafts market, with 5 competitors so far (there will be blood).

Things didn't really changed since 1999 when Dassault briefly studied their SSBJ. The market is stuck at 300 aircrafts (best case) the engines remain the hardest hurdle, if new, they are extremely expensive (especially for 300 aircrafts) if derived from military engines, reliability is bad (think Formula 1 engines, exciting but very short life) while Airbus or Boeing turbofans are stuck at subsonic, and oversized.
 

Sundog

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I guess I'm in the minority, as I like the latest version of the Aerion, compared to the original or intermediate design. I would like to know why they moved the wing up and the front engines below it? I'm thinking weight, since you can carry the wing structure across the top of the fuselage, but now the mlg loads have to be carried by the fuselage. Aerodynamically, it might be to maintain good airflow over the top of the wing, since it's supposed to be a laminar design.
 

MaxLegroom

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LowObservable said:
Would you put your CEO on something that says Lockheed on the side and looks like an F-104?
Yes, especially if it were a Lockheed executive.
 

Flyaway

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Aerion eyes billionaire market for AS2 as it awaits GE study

Aerion estimates that it will be able to launch the AS2 supersonic business jet in 18 to 24 months, as it awaits the results of an engine study being conducted by General Electric.
He admits that while the type is a niche aircraft, aimed at individuals with $120 million to spare, the number of billionaires in the world is rising. Aerion estimates that there are 3,600 billionaires in the world today, and this number is growing at 8% a year.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aerion-eyes-billionaire-market-for-as2-as-it-awaits-449554/
 

Boxman

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Expanding a little more on the information cited in Flyaway's most recent post, it looks like it is "back to the future" for the CFM56 and the Aerion AS2 SBJ. Of course, the core of the CFM56 is derived from the General Electric F101 engine that was originally designed to propel the Rockwell B-1A bomber at supersonic speeds. Now a derivative of the "core" of the CFM56 is to power the Aerion at Mach 1.4. IF all goes to plan...

http://aviationweek.com/business-aviation/aerion-closes-supersonic-as2-program-launch
Aviation Week & Space Technology - "Aerion Closes In On Supersonic AS2 Program Launch" - by Guy Norris - July 3, 2018

LOS ANGELES—Supersonic business jet developer Aerion says it remains on track to launch the Mach 1.4 AS2 within the next few months.
Aerion also said it is targeting a transatlantic flight from New York to London in October 2023 to mark the 20th anniversary of the retirement of the Anglo-French Concorde.

“We are finalizing the trades on the aircraft so we can launch this year,” Aerion AS2 program manager Mike Hinderberger says. “The plan is two years from now to have preliminary design review (PDR) and first flight in 2023.” Updating progress on the long-running development effort at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics Aviation 2018 forum in Atlanta, he adds that the return to supersonic travel has “been a long time coming and it is about time.”
. . .
The AS2 will be powered by three 18,000-lb. thrust General Electric engines based on the core of the CFM56 turbofan. Describing the search for the right engine as a “huge challenge” for the program, Hinderberger says “we are finalizing the specifications right now. The engine has been very, very difficult. We scoured the industry but are now adapting an existing core.”

For the AS2, GE is adding a smaller fan, thought to be 52 in. in diameter, and a new booster and low-pressure turbine to the baseline eight-stage, high-pressure compressor and single-stage turbine of the CFM56 core. “We need a relatively big core, and before selecting GE we worked with all the major engine makers, and there are only so many cores out there you can use,” Hinderberger says. “On top of that, with regulations for landing and takeoff noise and trying to drive Stage 5 requirements, it is very difficult, and that’s what we have been focused on.”
 

Archibald

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The aerion SSBJ will fly as soon as
- NASA will launch JWST
- Roscosmos will launch their MLM module
- Mars sample return will get funded :(
 

Flyaway

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Archibald said:
The aerion SSBJ will fly as soon as
- NASA will launch JWST
- Roscosmos will launch their MLM module
- Mars sample return will get funded :(
The first example isn’t relevant as the JWST will fly & fairly probably in 2021.
 

TomcatViP

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You have to understand that any tech startup need to reach its basic promised goal before standing down (liability and reputation). A 120M$ Mach1.4 airframe is just the new Concorde...
 

Archibald

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It was to be launched in 2007, not 2021. Aerion SSBJ has been in the news for more than a decade, too.
 

Flyaway

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Aerion reveals timeline for supersonic test flight

Supersonic business aviation broke a crucial barrier at NBAA today with Aerion’s chief executive Tom Vice laying down a firm timeline for first flight with a new engine variant from GE and what was described as a “revolutionary” new cockpit design with Honeywell for the world’s first faster-than-sound business jet.

“We’re on track to fly in June 2023, and before that year is out we will cross the Atlantic at supersonic speed – the first supersonic crossing since the Concorde’s retirement 20 years earlier,” Vice said at a press conference today.
 

TomS

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Short video on the Affinity supersonic engine from GE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pESZu-m8IR0

Says it uses "the world's most popular core." CFM56, then? Can GE actually pull that core out and use it in a non-CFM joint venture design?
 

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David Richardson, Skunk Works’ director of air vehicle design, said that the finalization of the engine specs allows for Skunk Works to move on from conceptual work to developing a prelimary design, and he sees no major technical hurdles ahead. “There are no showstoppers, there are no technologies that have to be invented for us to get to where we need to be to make this airplane happen.”

[...]

Given the small number of aircraft envisioned by Aerion, GE Aviation isn’t going ahead with the project just for that company alone. “We don’t view this as one application,” Mottier [(GE)] said

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2018/10/15/ge-reveals-engine-that-could-make-aerions-ambitious-supersonic-business-jet-take-flight/#583f03d21a50
 
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