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Aerion SBJ

galgot

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Just for look factor, its much nicer with that wing.
Funny in the article they call it a "delta wing" , when its a swept wing to me. Or look a bit like an arrow wing like there was many Boeing studies of, less swept though.
 

Zootycoon

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Aerion is a real supersonic groupie, its now been with pretty much every major player. Each time they move on, it leaves a mark. I guess some changes could be the new partner’s company ego and others could be avoiding IP restrictions from where the design originated. It must be a nightmare working the IP because even if a few details of background IP could be traced back to the Airbus partnership days, it isn’t going to fly with Boeing.

I can’t understand why it has three engines, if the central engine has an S ducts, it’s a nightmare, I can’t believe anyone is is left from 727 who knows how to make them work, the airflow into the central engine comes off the top surface of the wing which is inherently dirty, not nice for the compressor face, then when that engine surges, the intake spill air washes out the HTP (OMG that’s nasty) and I’ve lost count of the number of time I’ve heard Boeing guys say no commercial aeroplane will ever be designed again with more than two.
 

Grey Havoc

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I’ve lost count of the number of time I’ve heard Boeing guys say no commercial aeroplane will ever be designed again with more than two.
But is anyone listening to them now, I wonder?
 

TomcatViP

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@Zootycoon : I don't think there is an S-duct. It appears to me only as if the rear engine is canted rearward (Trim?).

The IP question would be interesting to debate. Airbus precipitation to test flight commercially the device in France could be a consequence of their exit from the program.

B/w, are they going to change their logo?
 
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Sundog

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Article says they are looking at M1.2 boomless over land, exploiting the Mach trap that keeps the boom from reaching the ground. It also gives a maximum speed of M1.6, which I think is a subtle upgrade from the earlier M1.4 and may contribute to the planform change.

(As noted in another thread, the current issue is downloadable here: https://aviationweek.com/awst_current)
Thanks. I find it interesting that they think they can achieve boomless with the design, as it appears shorter, but that's probably just an affect of the arrow wing on the fuselage. The Mach 1.6 top speed makes complete sense with the new wing design.

Edit: BTW, their web site has been updated with the new design.
 
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litzj

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I love the special characteristics of F-104 or F-5 style SLFC wing of the AS2, but newly updated one become more similar to the conventional supersonics
 

TomcatViP

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@Zootycoon : I now understand the central engine placement that you criticized according to the experience with the 727:
I see the bumb created by the larger forward fuselage section (cabin) creating a recompression zone in front of the engine inlet. Something that the 727 didn't have with a constant fuselage section and an inlet raised to avoid ingesting the boundary layer.

In the high alpha low speed regime the canted engine axis offset the low efficiency due to turbulent air injection. Since they have a third engine to reduce noise during those phases only, the accepted lower efficiency makes sense.

My 2 cents only.
 

Moose

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Well my. I have to admit, those are nice lines.

(Taken from their website)
Are the nacelles narrower now? For me it looks so.
According to the article, yes:
Unlike the previous design, in which the engines were shown enclosed behind relatively thick-lipped subsonic--type inlets, the AS2 now features axisymmetric spiked, external compression inlets. “I won’t say a lot about what we do with that inlet, but it meets all of the really tough requirements for inlet distortion for engines that try to be all things to all speed regimes,” says Vice. The spike, which shocks the flow down to subsonic speeds for inlet recovery, forms part of what Vice describes as a “quite sophisticated inlet.”
 

Dynoman

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I believe they are breaking ground in Melbourne, FL for a manufacturing plant soon with production to begin in 2023.
 

TomcatViP

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Military derivatives:

[Aerion's chief executive Tom Vice] sees demand for military derivatives, saying the AS2’s altitude capability and range would make it a valuable intelligence-gathering or electronic warfare aircraft. Aerion does not have military contracts, but would develop military AS2 derivatives with open software architectures – designs that enable systems to be more easily updated, modified and linked to other systems.

 

Grey Havoc

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Why do I get the feeling they may already be regretting their design overhaul?
 

Zootycoon

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With COVID induced world recession imminent, potentially of epic proportions, right when they need orders, they’ve turned to the military. No surprises there then.
 

TomcatViP

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Why wouldn't they go to Boom instead? It's faster, has greater available internal volume, less engines and similar range*.
The value of having a lower shock boom doesn't seems to be that much relevant for a military aircraft (non-penetrative).


*And soon will have a flying technology demonstrator.
 
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yasotay

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I suspect that governments will be some of the first customers for small numbers. Probably not much faster than Gulfstream, but perhaps in the diplomatic courier/crisis response scenario it might be worth having a few around.
 

MihoshiK

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Why wouldn't they go to Boom instead? It's faster, has greater available internal volume, less engines and similar range*.
The value of having a lower shock boom doesn't seems to be that much relevant for a military aircraft (non-penetrative).


*And soon will have a flying technology demonstrator.
Err, the Boom Overture also has three engines?
 

TomcatViP

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Why wouldn't they go to Boom instead? It's faster, has greater available internal volume, less engines and similar range*.
The value of having a lower shock boom doesn't seems to be that much relevant for a military aircraft (non-penetrative).


*And soon will have a flying technology demonstrator.
Err, the Boom Overture also has three engines?
Absolutely correct, obviously. My mistake.
 

mboeller

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And I thought that Boom until now has no engine at all.
 

Helix88

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E-V Bomber

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Even so, it looks like Boeing are managing this program into the ground. :(
What program? Where’s the hardware? All I’ve seen are fancy renders, whilst Boom on the other hand are posting pictures of their sub-scale prototype jet being assembled on a daily basis. Boeing made the right decision by jumping ship before Aerion’s inevitable collapse, they likely realised they’d bet on the wrong horse...
 

TomcatViP

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Notice that Boeing just jumped out of everything it did last year. I am not sure that reflects anything about the supposed seriousness or not of Aerion (and I have voiced my critics often as you may know).

The transformational effect of Boeing design (see the last renders) is so significant that I wonder where IP will rest. IMOHO that's could help solve this enigma.
 

fredymac

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For what its worth. They lost me at a hybrid/electric supersonic jet. I'll have to see the concept design for an electric fan propulsion for supersonic performance. The Boom aircraft is shown at the 12:30 mark which looks a lot more plausible.

 

lowboom

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Even so, it looks like Boeing are managing this program into the ground. :(
What program? Where’s the hardware? All I’ve seen are fancy renders, whilst Boom on the other hand are posting pictures of their sub-scale prototype jet being assembled on a daily basis. Boeing made the right decision by jumping ship before Aerion’s inevitable collapse, they likely realised they’d bet on the wrong horse...
You make a good point about hardware versus pictures, but then one must ask how relevant the Boom XB1 is as a supersonic demonstrator. What exactly do you think it is demonstrating and what is the opportunity cost of the resources put toward that effort? Or more appropriately, what is it demonstrating that wasn't demonstrated by the late 1950's. The AS2, while pretty, does not appear to be configured to meet Chapter 14 community noise requirements (or even the FAA's NPRM of Chapter 4 -3.5dB).
 

TomcatViP

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Boeing possibly out soon:
A Boeing spokeswoman issued the following written statement in response to questions from AIN about the future of its urban air mobility activities: “Aurora will remain a subsidiary and will continue to be part of NeXt for the remainder of the year. Management is assessing several options regarding when this talented organization can make a meaningful and productive impact. In the meantime, it continues to run its business as usual. Our continued investment in and participation with Wisk is being evaluated and no decisions have been made.” She added that the same situation applies to Boeing’s investment in Aerion.
 

djfawcett

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I would really hate to see Boeing pull out of the program. Without Boeing, I don't see Aerion has much chance of ultimately going beyond PDR.
 

TomcatViP

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IMO, It's performance related. Without the project moving forward, Boeing will punch out.
And honestly, this project has lasted way too long without manufacturing anything. It looks now like a soviet administrative bureau with a registration in the Caïmans.
 
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