Re-arming the UK: What equipment? and how much?

I did not know that the GCAP would be going to go to the boom method from the off bob225?
 
bob225 said:
My un-expert thoughts:

1. why not buy the F-35C instead? has the longer range than the B, but already had the probe.

2. as the whole things in theory modular, could they take the front off a C or B, which has the probe and swap? i get there's lots of plumbing to change etc but doable?
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1: IIRC only the A is cleared for the gravity bombs they want us to pay for the pleasure of hosting and maybe using if we're allowed to.

2: Whilst the F-35 is meant to be, in effect, one plane with three variants as I understand it this is a polite fiction like the Super Hornet being the Hornet. Whilst there is more commonality it's still too low to readily allow such changes.
 
bob225 said:
1. why not buy the F-35C instead? has the longer range than the B, but already had the probe.
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F-35C is more expensive, has lower availability than A and only 1 user, who aren't local to UK. Which means some maintenance would have to be in US....F-35C is also not, and never will be, nuclear capable...

Atomic Coyote said:
Are there any hard details out for when these are planned to go into testing/service, or (the eternal UK question) how they're being paid for?
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Don't be silly....
bob225 said:
2. as the whole things in theory modular, could they take the front off a C or B, which has the probe and swap? i get there's lots of plumbing to change etc but doable?
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It's not modular in theory or reality...

But we now have managed to get ourselves into a position where half the UK's current or future aircraft need booms, and the other half dont....C-17, P-8, E-7, RC-135, F-35A and GCAP all boom.....Typhoon, A400M and F-35B are probe and drogue...

Incredibly...whilst other A330 MRTT have boom receptacles...the RAF ones don't....so we can't actually refuel our AAR platforms in flight...

Like the RN's gun and VL situation, decades of short term and bad decisions have led us to this point....
 
Why not buy the KC-46? I know that it has it's problems but it has both probe and drogue already fitted and ready to go we could purchase ten KC-46 to replace the A330 tanker transports when the PPP contract has ended (don't know when that will be?) with AirTanker.
 
FighterJock said:
Why not buy the KC-46? I know that it has it's problems but it has both probe and drogue already fitted and ready to go we could purchase ten KC-46 to replace the A330 tanker transports when the PPP contract has ended (don't know when that will be?) with AirTanker.
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KC-46???

You're having a laugh aren't you?

The newer A330 MRTT come with the boom receptacle...
 
I had forgot about that the A330 MRTT has a boom fitted, though France does not use the Flying Boom method, when we eventually buy the A330 MRRT with the Flying Boom fitted we will be the only country outside of the US that uses the method.
 
FighterJock said:
I had forgot about that the A330 MRTT has a boom fitted, though France does not use the Flying Boom method, when we eventually buy the A330 MRRT with the Flying Boom fitted we will be the only country outside of the US that uses the method.
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Doesn’t Australia already have 330s with booms?
 
FighterJock said:
I had forgot about that the A330 MRTT has a boom fitted, though France does not use the Flying Boom method, when we eventually buy the A330 MRRT with the Flying Boom fitted we will be the only country outside of the US that uses the method.
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Come on ...
Saudi Arabia uses the MRTT boom for it's F-15 fleet. The UAE for their F-16
Australia, South Korea, The Netherlands, Norway all already use it for their F-35A…. Germany, Belgium, Finland and Denmark will probably before the UK.
South Korea, Norway and Autralia could use the MRTT boom for their P-8 Poseidons, but i don't know if they do.

Some countries also use the boom for C-17, E-7 or an other MRTT … the list goes on.
 
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What I forgot to say was we will be the only country inside Europe to use the Flying Boom method. :oops:
 
FighterJock said:
What I forgot to say was we will be the only country inside Europe to use the Flying Boom method. :oops:
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The Netherlands and Norway are in Europe and curently use the boom.
When they get their first F-35As, Belgium, Germany, Finland and Denmark will also still be in Europe ...

But the RAF will be the first air force of the British Isles to use the MRTT boom, so hey, there's that !
 
Titus K said:
The Netherlands and Norway are in Europe and curently use the boom.
When they get their first F-35As, Belgium, Germany, Finland and Denmark will also still be in Europe ...

But the RAF will be the first air force of the British Isles to use the MRTT boom, so hey, there's that !
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Pretty sure the American aircraft in Britain are using the MRTT boom from allied MRTTs.
 
Yeah the US was complaining Spain wouldn't refuel their aircraft conducting strikes on Iran.
 
Lets just say I'm a little dubious....particularly after a few minutes research on companies house etc...

A new UK tracked armoured vehicle "manufacturer" has appeared....based in (of all places) Harrogate (no address published....and Harrogate not exactly a manufacturing hub, or with any facilities that could be used).

https://armexis.co.uk/home

Allegedly.... they'll be making 2 vehicles...an IFV and APC...and have some CGI of armed UGV as well...

Apparently they've secured a £17.5m contract (not sure from whom, or on what basis) to build 4 vehicles for testing in 2027 in Ukraine....

Spidey sense tingling and all that...
 
Let's wait and see what happens in the new government over the next few months, it is going to be interesting whatever happens.
 
Reuben James said:
John Healey is Andy Burnham's chancellor. This could be a great thing for UK defence, presuming he retains some of the interest he had shown under Starmer.
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Or he's been chosen out of spite to prove that there's no money available for Defence...

It leaves open the question of who becomes defence secretary? Jarvis is rumoured not to be in the good books over hiding the £4.7Bn gap in the DIP so perhaps Carns' backing has secured him the job?
 
And Wes Streeting for Defence Secretary. Hmmm.

I know that many though Carns would be well-suited, but given he's on the drone-hype train, perhaps Streeting will end up being more malleable. It just depends as to whether it the Chiefs, or the PM, doing the moulding.
 
Reuben James said:
And Wes Streeting for Defence Secretary. Hmmm.

I know that many though Carns would be well-suited, but given he's on the drone-hype train, perhaps Streeting will end up being more malleable. It just depends as to whether it the Chiefs, or the PM, doing the moulding.
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I have been increasingly alarmed by Carns' drone radicalism, he had a decent chance of doing real damage if he was given the reins despite his enormously sensible attitude to national resilience and readiness.
Streeting, for better or worse, has a DIP to deliver now which he can't change or influence so his is a managerial rather than formative role. IIRC he was pretty good, while at Health, at listening to and working with his civil servants and NHS 'chiefs' so while he may be itching to try to shift the direction of travel he is bound to follow existing policy.

That's assuming the Chiefs don't also want to change the DIP, and doesn't mean he won't influence what happens to any extra money...
 
TorpedoJ said:
IIRC he was pretty good, while at Health, at listening to and working with his civil servants and NHS 'chiefs' so while he may be itching to try to shift the direction of travel he is bound to follow existing policy.
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He was an absolute disaster...he ran for the hills before the full costs and impact of his re-organisation of the centre has been understood by the public...or our useless parliamentarians...

So far its costing over £1bn...with the net result that more contractors will be needed for delivery at enormous long term cost as all of the people have left....many of whom are now working for the contractors on daily rates of £800 minimum...

The enormity of his cockup really hasn't hoved into view yet....it will do from April 2027...
 
I'll crosspost in the SDB2 thread....

I really cannot see the point in this....

- Cuts across SpearGlide...
- Is not 'Sovereign' or ITAR free
- I don't think it would get integrated on F-35 quicker...
- It's not 'affordable'....it costs more than Paveway IV...the Primes still aren't getting the message...
- Strikes me as Raytheon UK needing it more than RAF...
- Why not just buy SDB1 for 2/3rds the cost now....

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/ray...-weapon-at-raf-stockpile-gap/#comment-1127765
 
I thought that SDB2 had taken over from SDB1 timmymagic? Or are they continuing production for export purposes of SDB1.
 
FighterJock said:
I thought that SDB2 had taken over from SDB1 timmymagic? Or are they continuing production for export purposes of SDB1.
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GBU-39 is a different rather than a previous weapon. Different seeker, many times cheaper.
 
SDB2 is potentially like PrSM and F-35A with B61, a sop to the Americans and will undermine SPEAR 3 and collaborative efforts for strike systems.
 
FighterJock said:
I thought that SDB2 had taken over from SDB1 timmymagic? Or are they continuing production for export purposes of SDB1.
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SDB1 is cheap and GPS/INS (there is a laser SDB1 in limited service with SOCOM as well)...originally cost $25k. Designed to be affordable and mass produced. Essentially the JDAM equivalent (in guidance as well) of small gliding munitions...

SDB2 is expensive (like 5-10x as expensive) and services a different target set (moving targets, relocatable etc)

They're complimentary munitions, both carried on the same racks but from different manufaturers at different price points for different targets, 1 complex (SDB2) 1 simple (SDB1).
 
There was talk of the RAF buying some SDB2's as a fall back until the SPEAR 3 missile enters service. But I think that they should buy some SDB1's as well.
 
TorpedoJ said:
I have been increasingly alarmed by Carns' drone radicalism, he had a decent chance of doing real damage if he was given the reins despite his enormously sensible attitude to national resilience and readiness.
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I think he's product of his background - Marines and SF, so a light infantryman by trade and not by nature a vehicles (ground, air or naval) guy. Easier to see drones as a replacement for vehicles if you don't value the vehicles particularly.
 
You may well be right on that point timmymagic that the Protector could be the first aircraft to get the Spear3.
 
TorpedoJ said:
Or he's been chosen out of spite to prove that there's no money available for Defence...

It leaves open the question of who becomes defence secretary? Jarvis is rumoured not to be in the good books over hiding the £4.7Bn gap in the DIP so perhaps Carns' backing has secured him the job?
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Andy Burnham has declined commit to his new Chancellor John Healey's demand to increase defence spending to 3% of GDP by 2030 and flatly rejected his plans for war bonds

The PM has said that the appointment of Healey is a "signal of intent" on defence spending. It is currently due to rise to 2.7% of GDP by 2030.

The PM's spokesman: 'As the Prime Minister said yesterday we will honor our commitments on defense to our international partners. We'll set out more on defense in due course'


Good that Miliband is out of Energy, even if its to Foreign Office, problem is another possibly even worse Net Zero zealot has replaced him.
 
bob225 said:
Just posting the link, i struggle to see the RAF going Boom and Drogue, thats a lot of training to keep up with, i guess it possible,
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GCAP carries so much fuel that it needs the boom to refill in a timely manner. The drogue doesn't flow anywhere near as much fuel per unit time.


FighterJock said:
I thought that SDB2 had taken over from SDB1 timmymagic? Or are they continuing production for export purposes of SDB1.
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SDB1 is for things like hardened aircraft shelters, bunkers, or other non-moving objects, it has a semi-armor-piercing HE warhead. SDB2 has a shaped charge wargead and 3-mode seeker to chase moving vehicles.
 

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