EDR - Leonardo Vulcano 120 mm ammunition: guided indirect fire capability for MBTs
One reason why i like the ARC 3.0. The double trunnion could allow hire gun elevations, especially when combined with an active suspension.
There looking at 25° right now but one could probaly get even more with an active suspension
Good question. We could see a convergence between the mbt and Self-propelled artillery especially with the larger 130/140mm cannons. Especially with the larger system of system approach this may become a new standard
Hmm, the really silly part is the gun, not the APS, just within internal logic
If you re-read my comment you will notice that our statements are not mutually exclusive.
Drones and ATGMs with HEAT warheads are the greater-in-number threats to an MBT. But composite armor and ERA/NERA works well enough at the moment.
Most MBTs and AFVs today only have enough armor at the front, and will not be able to resist a tandem charge carrying drone or ATGM to the sides, let alone the top and rear.
That's great. But actually meeting another tank in combat is a rare thing.
This so far goes against the wisdom of any APS adopter but I will wait and see.
he doesn't say that …
Well then you could just say the caption was a mistranslation.
At least the KNDS realizes the importance of bringing a gun ,not a knife, to a gun fight ie the 140mm. They realize the need for a modular removeable turret & gun. When is the rest of the world going to catch up?
Indeed the 140mm would rarely be necessary but when the modular capability is there it is good, especially as range becomes more tyrannical.
You get less ammo for ~zero benefit and substantial development cost.
1% is of course a huge overestimation.
The rest of the world tested 140mm guns decades ago. These were abandoned because no one yet procured anything with a protection level that could warrant that.
It has APS on par with those of about a dozen other vehicles. But its base armor protection is unknown. As we know, APS is not a substitute for physical armor.
Obviously turrets r removable. The Russian ones aren't even anchored but free sitting, thus the lollipoping, I heard. KND is ahead on modularity IMHO.
Armor protection is likely to remain classified/proprietary and likely to change per manufacture.
The Nammo is not a tank & rightly over amored as a troop carrier.
Please elaborate on "CAPINT"..have not heard of.
From the looks in the KND vid these are fragment curtain APS mature German designs..Plenty of vid available on web.
Modularity means a lot of things. Changing a whole turret is something that could be done a long time ago, but it's generally a very undesirable thing to do. What they more likely mean is the turret is modular in a way that allows switching out existing equipment for other vendors'. Like the optics, sensors, ammunition, comms etc.
Then the Merkavvo is a good example. It is the only MBT right now that comes by default with an all around composite armor protection. Some others attempted this, but due to starting off with an excessively front-biased design, still leave out numerous easily exploitable weak spots.
The Frenchie tank you see in the video a few posts above.
Germany has one mature APS and that is Rheinmetall's StrikeShield (previously RAP and AMAP-ADS).
Maximum modularity at multiple levels (turret, gun, systems etc.) seems to be a goal here.
Tank air et al mobility is up there w/ weight & cost. The Merk doesn't need be all that air mobile.
KNDS being a Franco German concern Diamant & AMAP tech is probably overlapping & the tech is not new & resembles AMAP IMHO.
Yes Mobility is a large part. Based on the latest MTU statements the goal weight for MGCS is/was 54 tons.
AMAP ist Not an KMW product but Rheinmetalls.
Options for possible futures always seems smarter.
agreeing too much and those tradeoffs should be primary elsewhere.
absolutely the uncrewed should find & finish whenever possible. cant be enough emphasis. Thus it follows that the 140mm is a candidate as an indirect fire finisher for uncrewed finders.
The below appears a be more mature. Getting the MARTE cats hearded sounds difficult.
Who needs 140mm when there's a 100km range 120mm Vulcano round in existence?
more payload space, more solid fuel ie greater range especially for a munition/missile.
Where is that magic round? For now the, estimate 30km range at most. Even if we are optemistic and say that with a maximum elevation of 30° i highly doubt the range will more than triple
That is not necessarily a good goal. Higher levels of modularity come at a cost of specialization for the customer's needs.
The Merkava and Leclerc both are from a generation of tanks that also started low (most at 50-ish tons) and gradually grew over the years.
KNDS has no access to StrikeShield and AFAIK made no arrangements for industrial cooperation with Rheinmetall on it.
The 140mm is pitched as a direct fire option. The Vulcano is an indirect fire round. The two are entirely incomparable.
I was responding to a statement of "140mm is a candidate as an indirect fire finisher for uncrewed finders."
I agree.
that is great contractor answer.
airmobility demands ~60t. one can accomplish but @ great compromise.
have no reason to believe
Thanks.
The compromise comes mostly in the form of lower protection.
Exactly.
NO. It is the Rheinmetal proposal, not the german top brass choice.
I agree.
And it often is true.
Air mobility is one thing but train as well as just driving is just as important and both have severe limitations on your vehicle.
Which is why the or any of the concept unmanned turrets are less protected.
For the next Leopard 2 upgrade / refit, which would 2AX, the german goverment contracted Rheinmetall for the development of 3 types of munition. For now its almost certain the 130mm will be bought atleast for Leopard.
Or stay with the 120mm which is more than good enough without any extra costs.
I would disagree. The current calibers didn't only get so large just because of AT capabilities but also because it brought the needed HE firepower for direct fire. The purpose of an MBT shouldn't be that of an SPAA.
For whats worth ironicly MGCS was allways shown with a C-UAV Wingman (sure often with lasers but some say we aren't that far off). The thing is you still need your big HE slinger yeeting anything from east to west into dust.
We have 1 refit, 1 refit but french and 1 completely newely developted platform with the italien mbt which honestly is the most disapointing vehicle for me. Okay we also got the PSM Tank concept but thats as generic as it can be.
Didn't say peak protection. To re emphasize we r is "model a+" aps evolutionary phase. As far as curtains go, the euros seem to got 'contemporary' going. APS need to be more preemptive, counter any swarm/complex atk than currently deployed.
