Re-arming the UK: What equipment? and how much?

In what might only be described as 'taking a machine gun to the nation's metatarsals', Kier Starmer has been forced out of office.

He'll be replaced by Andy Burnham in all likelihood, a man who could be good for defence, given his penchant for reindustrialisation. Certainly, I can't imagine his leadership allowing the collapse of British shipyards.

The big problem, though, is delay. The long-promised DIP may now simply be released, then retracted with the arrival of a new administration.

The best-case scenario would probably be for the next PM is simply adopt the current defence policy. The spending is not enough, but at this point, further reviews would be fatal.
 
All bets are off, it may well be that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will change in the inevitable Cabinet reshuffle that will result. It may be that we end up having a General Election within the next 9 months. The future is up in the air and the DIP is likely to languish on someone's laptop/backseat of a taxi/pub toilet (delete as applicable) for some time to come.
 
zen said:
Possibility is Stratus RS concept has been further evaluated and the anti-aircraft capability is better focused on a new AAM.
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Stratus RS was only ever an AAM for HVT like AWACS or AAR. And its being procured for that role still. Allegedly operational on Rafale in 2033. But...I suspect the air to air capability won't be available from the off...

zww11455 said:
France is also planning to develop missiles similar to AIM174B, and it feels that there is too little information known about various missile projects in the UK
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In the timeframe that France is talking about the only 2 solutions are a Meteor with booster from a wing pylon, or air launched Aster 30. With the booster attached Aster 30 is around 4ft longer than Meteor, so again it would be centreline or wing pylon launched. For reference an Aster 30 with booster would be only slightly longer than SCALP-EG.

My money is on air launched Aster 30 1NT with Booster.....France does not have a large enough stake in Meteor (c10-11%) and would need agreement from all parties, which might not be forthcoming....(see JNAAM).
 
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timmymagic said:
In the timeframe that France is talking about the only 2 solutions are a Meteor with booster from a wing pylon, or air launched Aster 30. With the booster attached Aster 30 is around 4ft longer than Meteor, so again it would be centreline of wing pylon launched. For reference an Aster 30 with booster would be only slightly longer than SCALP-EG.

My money is on air launched Aster 30 1NT with Booster.....France does not have a large enough stake in Meteor (c10-11%) and would need agreement from all parties, which might not be forthcoming....(see JNAAM).
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Concur, Aster 30 makes the most sense for the French "AIM174B."

That said, the 15" booster will cause some headaches. I'm assuming a drop release instead of firing off a rail, which would allow you to use a custom rail that supports the booster as well as the missile. There's a big reason the USN didn't keep the booster on the SM6.
 
Air launch of Aster ought to need less booster.
Ideally a similar diameter to the 'dart' which could make the rail easier to integrate.
 
Might be some issues with the warhead? The current B1NT and B1 use a modified BMD-specific warhead, not sure whether that'd be best for classic AAW duties.
 
zen said:
Air launch of Aster ought to need less booster.
Ideally a similar diameter to the 'dart' which could make the rail easier to integrate.
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Well, Air Launched Aster 15 is looking at ~180km range. Based on the usual rule of thumb.
 
As expected, the Telegraph is reporting that Burnham wants a delay to the DIP until he’s in No.10 (and likely a new chancellor) while Starmer still wants it published before the NATO summit.
 
"But look at my official document!"
 
Do we actually know who is writing the DIP? Carns said he'd never seen it, Healey only saw it on the Monday before it was due. Which group of civil servants is actually doing the sums and making decisions and who are they accountable to?
 
TorpedoJ said:
Do we actually know who is writing the DIP? Carns said he'd never seen it, Healey only saw it on the Monday before it was due. Which group of civil servants is actually doing the sums and making decisions and who are they accountable to?
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Pollard and Eagle seem to be the guys with the most access to the document as it stands. They're the procurement ministers.
 
Burnham & co seem more keen on borrowing to pay for infrastructure. And also further decentralisation of government heck knows what that means for defence. I’m never sure if politicians regard defence as infrastructure or not.
 
Flyaway said:
Burnham & co seem more keen on borrowing to pay for infrastructure. And also further decentralisation of government heck knows what that means for defence. I’m never sure if politicians regard defence as infrastructure or not.
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But are they wrong? If the UK does join the Defence, Security, and Resilience Bank reduced interest rates will apply to both kit procurement and infrastructure repair/extension.

From: https://www.navylookout.com/royal-navy-attack-submarine-fleet-update-all-boats-alongside/

HMS Audacious is scheduled to come out of dry dock in Devonport today. This should be an unremarkable routine activity but its significance shows how much dock infrastructure has impacted the readiness of the submarine force. [...]

Until the major refurbishment of number 10 dock at Devonport is completed sometime in 2027, the UK has only three nuclear-licensed facilities where submarines can be taken out of the water. The ageing shiplift at Faslane and two dry docks in Devonport. Number 9 dock is currently occupied by HMS Victorious, undergoing a multi-year Deep Maintenance Period (DMP), and number 15 dock, just vacated by Audacious. Number 14 dock is being prepared for the defuelling and eventual dismantling of decommissioned submarines, a project that will take decades.
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Which is IIRC still 3bn below what Defense says is the bare minimum funding needed to cover all their missions.

Time for the new man to ask Parliament which missions Defense will no longer do.
 
15 years or more of Mk41 this and Mk41 that and did anyone in the course of all that time ever check if Mk41 is ITAR free?

Because it isn't.

So that means UK money to MBDA is in part of state and company access to permission by US government to intigrate Aster into Mk41. In essence not just engineering a new cannister to fit Mk41, but the legal abd diplomatic mechanisms for gaining permission.

And now we know why UK Gov has finally gone to UK industry for information on domestic silo systems.
Unmanned vessels low maintenance requirements is just icing on the cake.
 
The new Minister of Defence has altered the plans of his predecessor and reallocated £500m previously budgeted for long lead development of the Type 83/Type 32 designs to purchasing the stealth landing craft, there is two designs in the running at the moment the Leidos Sea Dagger or BAE Systems’ Littoral Strike Craft. The Times says hes negotiated an increase in the DiP up from £13.5bn to £15bn.
 
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Are there any photos of the Sea Dagger or the BAE Systems' Littoral Strike Aircraft WatcherZero?
 
Drones are the better option for armament, but unless you plan to build a 10,000t drone to carry your radar, they simply cannot replicate the same capability.
 
However, until we see the DIP, we won't know whether this a full cancellation of the manned element, a delaying of the manned element, or a significant reworking of the manned element.
 
Found another snippet from the article:

'While it is understood that some form of new crewed vessel will be commissioned in the near future, autonomous vehicles will be prioritised in a shift towards modernising the armed forces in the face of the rising threat from Russia and other hostile states.'
 
From a dutch perspective, since the gov seems to have settled on ESSM/Aster/(Aquila) for the FuAD frigates, is the cancellation of T83 bad news for the integration of Aster into Mk41 ?
 
Titus K said:
From a dutch perspective, since the gov seems to have settled on ESSM/Aster/(Aquila) for the FuAD frigates, is the cancellation of T83 bad news for the integration of Aster into Mk41 ?
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I doubt it, the RN want Aster to be capable of operating on all ships (inc unmanned) which will mostly consist of mk41s in the near future
 
LightningFan1959 said:
I'll believe it when I see it, given Healy and Carns didn't mention this during their resignations (and how much of a hot button topic the RN is for the British public) I'mmsomewhat dubious.
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Aye. I'll want to know the specific circumstances of the 'cancellation" first.

T32 is meaningless, it was never a real programme.
 
TylrrTylrr said:
I doubt it, the RN want Aster to be capable of operating on all ships (inc unmanned) which will mostly consist of mk41s in the near future
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Yet they just asked industry for options, particularly for solutions that require no maintenance checks for 30 days and which should be cheaper and quicker to intigrate new weapons.

And that came after they contracted MBDA to prove integration of Aster in Mk41.

And BAE Systems has shown off a strange silo arrangement on it's Type 91 model.
 
LightningFan1959 said:
I'll believe it when I see it, given Healy and Carns didn't mention this during their resignations (and how much of a hot button topic the RN is for the British public) I'mmsomewhat dubious.
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You're assuming that as part of the horse-trading and the suggestion that Jarvis is more "drone" focused, that changes haven't occurred since the two resigned? As everyone has said the 32's effectively never existed anyway so no savings there, while pushing the 83 back saves money in the short term while BAE are still full with the 26 order for at least another decade at the rate they are going.

Of course its wait and see, but between current pressing needs (SSN availability) and the big tickets of Tempest/AUKUS/Dreadnought still consuming money, something has to give for £15 odd billion.
 
Weird. The cancellation of 82 means that the naval equivalent of the RAF will be stuck with the Eurofighter T.1 into the 2060s.

Frankly speaking, given the problematic nature and rather outdated design of 45, that program was more important to UK's standing than GCAP is.
 
Definitely kqcke for you, to have only ordered 12 F-35As for the nuclear mission was in my view daft. I would have thought if they were wanting F-35As for the nuclear role it would have been better to have ordered a whole squadron or two and have them wired for both nuclear and conventional so that they would not be on QRA all the time.
 
WatcherZero said:
The new Minister of Defence has altered the plans of his predecessor and reallocated £500m previously budgeted for long lead development of the Type 83/Type 32 designs to purchasing the stealth landing craft, there is two designs in the running at the moment the Leidos Sea Dagger or BAE Systems’ Littoral Strike Craft. The Times says hes negotiated an increase in the DiP up from £13.5bn to £15bn.
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It is really incredible that at the start of 2040 there will only be about 10 modern Mayor air defenders in Europe and 8 will be from Germany. How the mithy have fallen.
 

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