I finally found time to read the rest of this article, and I'm more than a bit disappointed with it.

Not a ton of substance to that piece. Lots of vague puffery and vague allusions to stuff that is covered in great detail elsewhere. Didn't even do the best job summarizing the program either, I've seen much better summaries elsewhere.

Honestly I am kind of surprised that they'd use this as a feature story, the bar for feature stories must be underground at USNI nowadays.

The only truly interesting nugget in it was this bit:

The path to Polaris did not only cross services in the United States; it also crossed the Atlantic in a key partnership with the United Kingdom that survives to this day. Desperate to gain and maintain forward operating bases for its new SSBN strategic deterrent, the United States initially had entered an agreement to sell the Skybolt air-launched ballistic missiles to the British in exchange for valued access to the submarine tenders at Holy Loch, Scotland. In a theme that should now be familiar, the end result didn’t necessarily look like the beginning vision. The subsequent cancellation of the Skybolt program sent shockwaves through the U.S.-U.K. relationship, leading to the Nassau Accords as President Kennedy sought to repair the damage. By the time the Polaris Sales Agreement was signed on 6 April 1963, the U.S. Navy had gained a valuable partner that provided access to strategically pivotal bases in the Northern Atlantic, a partner that could diversify and reinforce the industrial base and provide an expanded test platform for continuous nuclear weapons systems improvement through the decades.

I had known about the US-British Polaris, Trident I, and Trident II sales agreements and their terms, and had been vaguely aware about the Skybolt program and its cancellation, but I hadn't realized that it was originally the Skybolt program that gave the US the critical access to base their submarine tenders at Holy Loch in Scotland rather than the Polaris program.



@Grey Havoc / @Flyaway (since I can't quote this post properly due to the nested post being automatically deleted by the forum software with no way to override it):

This is easier said than done and would cost a lot of money to do.

UK must build own nuclear missiles, say Lib Dems https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0dz1k0rr4o

I don't think the UK realizes just how expensive such a program would be.

To acquire the Trident II D5 missiles, the UK paid only the APUC for each missile plus a 5% surcharge on the APUC. This 5% surcharge represented a symbolic contribution towards the R&D costs of the Trident II D5 program.

Per US law, Britain was supposed to be charged a pro rata share of the Trident II D5 program's R&D costs. It was determined that said pro rata share would be $700–900 million (USD 1982) ($2.37–$3.05 billion (USD 2026)) depending on the number of missiles acquired. A 5% surcharge would only offer $187.5 million (USD 1982) ($635 million (USD 2026)) towards these costs. In order to fully recover their pro rata share of R&D costs, Britain should have paid a surcharge of roughly 21.3% on their missiles. The actual payment of 5% was less than one quarter of their pro rata share of Trident II D5 R&D costs, meaning that the US government directly subsidized at least 75% of their contribution.

In reality, I have heard reports that the actual surcharge paid by the British government was even lower than 5%, potentially as low as 2.7%. But I will optimistically assume that they actually paid 5%.

So Britain effectively got handed the Trident II D5 missiles without even paying more than under a quarter of their pro rata share of said program's R&D costs.

Now they want to build their own missile program from scratch. How much would that cost?

For Trident II D5, the total RDT&E expenditure was at least $29 billion dollars (USD 2026).

(Note: For the Trident RDT&E costs, I used an older lower estimate instead of a newer higher estimate because there was some uncertainty about the exact scope for the figures in the newer higher estimate (in particular it was somewhat unclear if said costs also included the cost of developing the D5LE missiles or if those were accounted for separately). In reality, the figures from the newer higher estimate are probably a more accurate representation of actual RDT&E costs. Therefore the total RDT&E costs are likely actually significantly higher than $29 billion. However we'll stick with the $29 billion figure for now just to be extra conservative.)

For comparison, Sentinel RDT&E expenditure was last estimated at $37 billion dollars (USD 2026) in the last available MSAR (which was from Dec 2023).

So... Let's say the British want to build a domestically developed and manufactured Trident killer. How are they going to pay for it?

The Trident II D5 costs $88 million (USD 2025) to acquire (APUC). Britain therefore paid roughly $5.6 billion for their 64 missiles, plus a surcharge of up to 5% ($282 million) towards partial RDT&E cost recovery, for a total program cost of $5.9 billion dollars.

So Britain paid around $5.9 billion (USD 2025) to acquire their current Trident II D5 missiles.

Now let's pretend they want to replace these. How much would it cost?

The trident missiles were comparatively relatively cheap to acquire because they were manufactured in extremely high volume. If manufactured in lower volume (like with the Peacekeeper), unit costs go through the roof. The Peacekeeper APUC was $243 million (USD 2025) for the production run of only 102 missiles. A British Trident killer sized for a deployed fleet of 64 missiles would probably require a production run of a similar size to the Peacekeeper production, ie around 100 missiles. For such a small program, I would expect unit costs to be much closer to Peacekeeper unit costs than to Trident or Sentinel unit costs.

Let's assume total procurement required is at least 89 missiles (64 production + 25 development). Realistically I would expect more than 25 missiles to be required for development.

Acquisition costs for the missiles alone would therefore be:

$7.8 billion (assuming $88 million each, ie the cost of Trident II D5)

$10 billion (assuming $114 million each, ie the cost of Sentinel)

$22 billion (assuming $243 million each, ie the cost of Peacekeeper)

I would expect actual costs to lie somewhere between the $10 billion and $22 billion estimates on the low end, or above the $22 billion estimate at the high end. Realistically, given how small the order size is (and all other factors involved), costs would probably most likely be in the $15–$25 billion range. Let's split the difference and call it $20 billion.

So already Britain is looking at spending $20 billion just to acquire the missiles. This is before spending a penny on RDT&E.

For RDT&E, based on past experiences with Sentinel, Peacekeeper, and Trident, it would probably be highly optimistic to assume that they could get away with only spending $30 billion dollars on RDT&E. Honestly I wouldn't be shocked if they ended up needing to spend far more than $30 billion on RDT&E. Let's very optimistically assume they can cap RDT&E costs at only $30 billion.

So now Britain is looking at spending $50 billion to acquire their own 100% independent Trident killer.

The alternative is buying Trident II D5LE2 for around $5.9 billion.

The choice is a no brainer.
 
Last edited:
Again?
Lord West of Spithead, ex-Admiral West.


Estimate total of £120 billion for full domestication of the Deterrent.
------
The choice is never just a cost issue.
I don't have access to that article. Could you post an excerpt or a PDF or something?

£120 billion would be about $159 billion at current exchange rates.

With a $159 billion budget, after $40 billion for new submarines, you're left with $119 billion remaining. The trident killer will be at least $50 billion, leaving up to $69 billion for everything else.

You'll need domestic enrichment capabilities for submarine fuel. I saw a British cost estimate for that at one point, but I can't find it again. It won't be cheap, especially since they'll need unrestricted use gas centrifuge technology (did Britain ever develop this capability indigenously? they don't seem to have ever operated a military or civilian plant using indigenously developed unrestricted use gas centrifuge tech, but it's possible that they built a pilot scale plant at some point?).

100% indigenous aeroshells, nosetips, AF&Fs, boost gas storage bottles, gas transfer systems (including loading/unloading lines for bottles), neutron generators, etc are a very expensive enterprise. They are unlikely to be able to achieve parity with the capabilities of existing warhead components without severely breaking that budget.

100% indigenous warheads are, uhh, even more ambitious. I'm sure they can design something that'd work (even if it might have inferior yield, weight, and volume), but I'd have serious questions about its reliability and credibility as a deterrent without nuclear testing for any 100% indigenous ballistic missile warheads produced by Britain.

They are not the US, and would not have access to US expertise, codes, supercomputers, shot records, historical documentation, historical design libraries, etc for development of 100% indigenous warhead designs. This is not a minor problem, it is a rather extreme one.

Without nuclear testing, even if the design they come up with is 100% credible and guaranteed to work in theory, it is questionable how much credibility it would be viewed with (rightly or wrongly) by other nuclear powers, especially so for those that the British deterrent is intended to deter.

Idk. I think it'd be quite ambitious to try to build a 100% indigenous deterrent for only $159 billion. I'm not sure that they could achieve this within that budget. Even if they did manage to come in within that budget (which is pretty questionable given the scope of work required), I think developing a 100% indigenous deterrent would probably damage the credibility of the British deterrent's perceived value for deterring other nuclear powers vs retaining the current arrangement.

The only exception to this is if they actually conducted nuclear testing, in which case I think a 100% indigenous deterrent may have similar (or perhaps only slightly lower) credibility to their current deterrent. However it seems extremely unlikely that Britain would conduct nuclear testing for many different reasons, therefore this probably isn't worth considering further.
 
Capenhurst can be expanded and potentially switched from civilian to military levels of enrichment. As was done in the past.

The total audited stock of UK military HEU was reported to be 21.86 tonnes as of March 31, 2002.

UK facilities for aeroshell design, testing and manufacturing exist. Currently used for civilian purposes. GKN, BAE Systems UK etc

UK nuclear research efforts continue and facilities for production of various components do exist. Mostly this would be retaking and expansion of existing infrastructure.

Seriously the idea the UK has nothing and no research capability is simply so false as to imply one hasn't done even a cursory search online.
 
They'd probably use something like the AVLIS, MLIS or SILEX processes.
Those processes are actually dramatically more expensive to develop compared to gas centrifuges. Historically, they have generally been considered obscenely expensive dead-end lab experiments that seemed promising at first, but never worked out to be practical (or economic) at production scales.

While some of them have some potential, there is only one process that appears to possibly have some decent level of practical and economic viability at production scales. That process is the proprietary modified SILEX process developed by the Global Laser Enrichment (GLE) consortium. After 30+ years under development, this process has finally matured to the point that it is allegedly verging on becoming practical and economic at limited production scales.

However, it has not yet reached commercial viability. The first semi-commercial laser enrichment plant by GLE is currently under license review, with estimated start of enrichment activities by 2030.

This is for a very small plant that will be purpose-built for re-enriching 300,000 tons of government-owned DU tails (0.35%) to NU grade (0.711%) over the course of 40 years.

It is expected that 100,000 tons of NU will be produced from these 300,000 tons. Over the course of 40 years, that amounts to 7500 tons/year of DU feed, and 2500 tons/year of NU product.

This is not comparable to a commercial enrichment plant, which enriches NU (0.7%) to fuel grade LEU (3–5%) for use in commercial power reactor fuel.

A typical commercial plant may look like the Orano Georges Besse II cascade, which has 7.5 million SWU/year of capacity. In terms of throughput, if assuming an average assays of 4.40% (product), 0.23% (tails), 0.711% (feed), then 7.5 million SWU/year corresponds to 9347 tons/year of NU feed, and 1078 tons/year of LEU product.

Let's look at applying those 7.5 million SWU/year towards the same task as the GLE plant to gain a sense of scale. In terms of throughput, if assuming an average assays of 0.711% (product), 0.17% (tails), and 0.35% (feed), then 7.5 million SWU/year corresponds to 30,262 tons/year of DU feed, and 10,067 tons/year of NU product.

Based on these figures, the GLE plant is approximately 1/4th the size of the Orano Georges Besse II cascade in terms of throughput capacity. This implies that the GLE plant is probably around 1.875 million SWU capacity.

It should be noted that the plans for the GLE plant appear to have changed, and it is currently estimated to only be capable of producing up to 1923 tons/year of NU, which is 23% smaller than the original plans.

If this is accurate, then the GLE plant is actually only 19% the size of the Orano Georges Besse II cascade in terms of throughput capacity. This implies that the GLE plant is probably only around 1.433 million SWU capacity.

It is critical to emphasize again that this is not a commercial plant. GLE was given a sweetheart deal on the DOE tails, which effectively amounts to a heavy government subsidy.

Furthermore, the laser enrichment process has certain limitations. While in the long term the goal is to use the laser enrichment process to handle all types of enrichment tasks, the current technology is allegedly not very well optimized for large enrichment cascades, and ill suited to producing LEU product at the moment. It is expected that the first generation machines used in the GLE plant will probably not be cost-competitive with gas centrifuges for commercial enrichment tasks, and that further development work based on results from building and operating the semi-commercial GLE plant will be required to produce further iterations on the original design in order to eventually develop a design that can actually be cost competitive with gas centrifuges for commercial enrichment. While the goal is to eventually outcompete gas centrifuges, there is a very long way to go before laser enrichment can achieve parity with gas centrifuges, let alone surpass them, and it is premature to consider this a "solved" technology.

Additionally, the GLE technology is proprietary, export-controlled, and infeasible to reproduce independently without irrationally huge expenditures of time and capital. For the time being, this is a technology that is far out of the reach of any other actors beyond GLE.

Anyways, simply put, laser enrichment may be flashy, but it's far from practical. Gas centrifuges are the best available technology at the moment, and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

Therefore for Britain (or any other nation for that matter), the only practical option is the gas centrifuge.
 
I'm willing to accept that the UK can make a W76/Mk4 comparable warhead that they know will work. Nothing wrong with using a known design even if it's old. The Insensitive Munition adaptations have likely been shared already (W76Mod1 equivalent), so it's about as modern as you get, if limited to 100kt.

So for the purposes of developing a fully national nuclear weapons program "all" that is needed is:
  • the large solid rocket production facility complete with a composite wrapping system,
  • enough HEU refining capability,
  • a pit manufacturing facility, (already have this)
  • a secondary manufacturing facility,
  • a completed warhead manufacturing facility,
  • an RBA manufacturing facility (as I understand UK trident, the warheads are UK but they're placed in US RBAs),
  • the Strategic Weapons Facility that puts all those pieces together into a working missile,
  • someplace to test their missiles,
  • BALPARS weather satellites with their launchers and someplace to launch them (how expensive are extreme-detail weather satellites and how many do you need) The UK has access to the same European weather satellites as France
  • a place to design new guidance systems and/or reverse engineer the US stuff to be able to maintain it
  • and probably a couple other things I've forgotten or don't know about
If you add "design a clean-sheet warhead" to the list, you would need a place to test nuclear weapons, at least to minimal yield (fission primary only, ~10-20kt I think) most of the time. You'd likely need to do one full yield test as well.

So that's a hell of a lot of capital infrastructure that would need to be built.
 
Last edited:
We have pit manufacturing. Aldermaston et al exist.

Navigation technologies isn't a problem.
Space rated companies.

Granted some capabilities seem either very small scale or civilian oriented. But it's not a empty cupboard. There is the basis for expansion or addition to military requirements.

The rocket is a problem and obviously flight testing.

And yes, a test site for the warhead is currently a big question.
 
We have pit manufacturing. Aldermaston et al exist.
Touche. Edited my post.

Navigation technologies isn't a problem.
Space rated companies.

Granted some capabilities seem either very small scale or civilian oriented. But it's not a empty cupboard. There is the basis for expansion or addition to military requirements.
Precision ballistic missile IMU/inertial platforms are a royal pain in the butt. Especially at Trident II or MX accuracy levels.

An early US SSBN IMU is in the Smithsonian as the most complicated mechanical computer ever built.

And the MX accuracy requirements were best met by a mechanical system, not a solid-state electronic or ring laser setup!
 
Capenhurst can be expanded and potentially switched from civilian to military levels of enrichment. As was done in the past.
It is a civilian plant using technology developed by a FR-NL consortium that is explicitly embargoed for civilian use purposes only and not provided to foreign partners for unrestricted use. I don't think the UK even has access to Urenco centrifuge designs, let alone manufacturing capabilities for them – I'm pretty sure they imported those centrifuges from France or the Netherlands, and it sounds like Urenco also built and operates the facility. So unless they want to nationalize a civilian facility and violate the technology use terms in such a flagrant manner that would be almost as disruptive to UK political relations (and access to global enrichment and uranium markets) as restarting nuclear testing, that's not a serious option.

The total audited stock of UK military HEU was reported to be 21.86 tonnes as of March 31, 2002.
Great, but they still buy HEU for their submarine cores from the US, and that doesn't appear to have changed. This is hardly a secret, many open discussions about their dependency on the US to supply their submarine fuel have been held.

UK facilities for aeroshell design, testing and manufacturing exist. Currently used for civilian purposes. GKN, BAE Systems UK etc

UK nuclear research efforts continue and facilities for production of various components do exist. Mostly this would be retaking and expansion of existing infrastructure.

Seriously the idea the UK has nothing and no research capability is simply so false as to imply one hasn't done even a cursory search online.
Let me use a modern analogy to make this a little clearer for you.

Instead of aeroshells and gas transfer systems and arming fuzing firing devices and nosetips and such, let's use a monolithic modern item as an analogy for all this hyperspecialized technical complexity.

The best example that comes to mind is the leading edge computer chip fabrication nodes.

There are precisely three companies in the entire world capable of manufacturing leading edge computer chip fabrication nodes. These are Intel, TSMC, and Samsung.

Now, the UK currently imports a great number of computer chips that have been fabricated on leading edge nodes. For example, Intel and AMD CPUs, or Nvidia GPUs. These chips are fabricated, manufactured, and integrated by foreign companies in foreign countries using proprietary capabilities.

The UK currently possesses the capability to purchase individual components that utilize these chips (e.g. an Intel/AMD CPU or a Nvidia GPU), import said component into the UK, and assemble a computer system using said chip domestically.

This is analogous to their capabilities with respect to nuclear warheads, where they assemble the reentry vehicle / warhead combo (let's call this a warhead package – which is distinct from the physics package) domestically using exclusively imported components outside of the warhead physics package.

You claim that because the UK can currently assemble these computer systems (warhead packages) themselves, then even though the components used are imported from foreign companies, designed by foreign companies, manufactured by foreign companies, and manufactured using proprietary foreign processes that are exclusive to a bare handful of foreign countries/companies on earth, they should logically also be capable of manufacturing all of the components used domestically.

In other words, your claim is analogous to saying that because the UK can assemble a computer system domestically containing an Intel CPU or Nvidia GPU, then therefore the UK possesses the capability to domestically manufacture Intel CPUs or Nvidia GPUs (ie domestically manufacture leading edge computer chip fabrication nodes) with no more than a modest amount of time and capital expenditure, since they technically already have existing facilities to work with these chips, even though said existing facilties are geared towards integration of off-the-shelf components only, and effectively zero engineering, design, RDT&E, manufacturing, or production capabilities exist domestically for those specific capabilities.

Saying that you're overstating things here is a criminally optimistic take on the situation. Quite frankly, I don't think you truly understand the scope or level of intricacy involved with any of these critical key technologies that the US has been providing to the UK on a turnkey basis for decades.

Your claims are analogous to claiming that the UK can build a 2 nm fabrication plant and start churning out Nvidia GPU chips at TSMC scales for a cost of a couple billion dollars and a couple years of time. Its ludricously unrealistic, and shows that you simply don't come anywhere close to grasping the level of difficulty involved with mastering any of the prerequisite processes.
 
So first we'll just dump that analogy as fundamentally wrong. Though the aspects which might ring true be not the one's you're reaching for.

Irony, the UK does have chip fabrication, not just assembly. But not high end outside of very niche military elements.

Fundamentally there is no impediments bar time and money. Ultimately the will to do it is what matters.

Throwing up impediments based on "it's not in place at the moment" is to ignore that changes can be made. Much as "treaty X" being presented as a fundamental physical law, when it is not.
The State is not fixed forever to plot a course set by long dead hands, to the profit of foreign powers.

These "because X isn't in place" is a disingenuous argument to demoralise the weak willed and undermine those intent of the pursuit of as much independence as is reasonably possible.

The signal from first Lord West and now the LibDems is a sign of a shifting political concensus over the toleration of the Deterrent being reliant on the US.
The "reasons, reasons, reasons" that justified the current state of affairs was no more than a political choice by those then in power.

It is a correct view, that if the UK is to increase Defence spending, that it should be spent in the UK providing greater independence of UK capabilities.
Lord West states the increase for full independence of the Deterrent is 0.4% of GDP taking Defence budget to 2.7%.
If in fact such independence as we deem needed takes even 5%. Then that is monies better spent than to benefit foreign powers. Our defence budget is for our defence.

It's clear we disagree.
But I don't pretend it's because of something technical.
 
Fundamentally there is no impediments bar time and money. Ultimately the will to do it is what matters.
I absolutely agree with this.

The "reasons, reasons, reasons" that justified the current state of affairs was no more than a political choice by those then in power.
Sure, and it was one made for rational and expedient reasons, ie to minimize the cost of maintaining the deterrent to the maximum extent possible, ensuring that the UK can get the absolute highest possible "bang for its buck" on their nuclear defense dollar spending.

Those same concerns still hold true today.

The signal from first Lord West and now the LibDems is a sign of a shifting political concensus over the toleration of the Deterrent being reliant on the US.
It is a correct view, that if the UK is to increase Defence spending, that it should be spent in the UK providing greater independence of UK capabilities.
Is it?

Sure, in an ideal world, many countries should aim to maintain at least some level of domestic military industries whenever its feasible to do so, to the maximum practical extent achievable without making politically or financially unreasonable compromises.

But the reality is, outside of a handful of countries (US, China, Russia, and to a lesser extent France), practically every other country in the world depends heavily on foreign military suppliers for at least part if not most of their defense needs.

Sure, some countries (e.g. Germany, UK, Italy, Israel) may have fairly robust domestic defense industries, but even these countries generally still tend to end up procuring a significant portion of their military capabilities from foreign sources. And these are unusual outliers, not typical examples. Most counties are far more dependent on foreign sourcing than the few outliers with semi robust domestic defense industries.

The problem ultimately comes down to realpolitik. Does the UK have the national will to substantially cut non-military spending, severely cut social services, and massively raise taxes to the extent necessary in order to afford funding a 100% domestic deterrent? Keep in mind that the conventional military capabilities of the UK are already severely neglected, so every dollar of additional funding should ideally first go towards fixing the situation with the conventional military capabilities.

From a political perspective, advocating for this is a bit of a poison pill. Sure, it sounds great on the campaign trail, but it's unlikely to end up being followed through on once said politicians are elected, as if they follow through, they will shortly end up getting voted out of office by pissed-off citizens.

I personally believe that Britain should ideally build their own 100% independent deterrent.

But I also believe that they are unlikely to ever follow through on doing this, as they have gotten such an absurdly sweetheart deal from the US that even considering any other option looks like financial malfeasance in comparison.

And given that they can't seem to gather the political willpower to address things like the gap in defense funding or the gap in conventional military capabilities, I believe that there's absolutely zero chance of them switching to a 100% independent deterrent.

On another note, I also feel that the current US-UK deal is needlessly absurdly slanted in Britain's favor, and that the US should be requiring that Britain pay their fair share in full for the proportional cost of Trident RDT&E, not for a tiny fraction of it (I found updated numbers which indicate the actual amount paid was actually equivalent to a less than 3% surcharge, and that the US actually directly subsidized over 85% of the UK's pro rata share of Trident RDT&E costs – so the British actually only paid for less than 15% of their pro rata share of Trident RDT&E costs!).
 
Fundamentally there is no impediments bar time and money. Ultimately the will to do it is what matters.
And I believe that the Powers That Be in the UK are grossly underestimating just how much money they're going to need to pay to have all the pieces necessary to have a full nuclear weapons industry.
 
Has anyone got an official document that says that the UK Holbrook warhead uses the EDC-37 explosive? I've not seen any official docs stating this, but from other sources I am pretty sure it does use EDC37. I am looking to do a dive into claims that Holbrook is an IHE warhead.
 
Has anyone got an official document that says that the UK Holbrook warhead uses the EDC-37 explosive? I've not seen any official docs stating this, but from other sources I am pretty sure it does use EDC37. I am looking to do a dive into claims that Holbrook is an IHE warhead.
This is perhaps one of the most damming examples I've seen from official sources:



Pay close attention to author affiliations.

There's ample evidence elsewhere to support the affiliation and discredit the assertion that EDC 37 is an IHE. Less sensitive CHEs are still CHEs. A vast gulf exists between CHE and IHE sensitivity.
 
This is perhaps one of the most damming examples I've seen from official sources:



Pay close attention to author affiliations.

There's ample evidence elsewhere to support the affiliation and discredit the assertion that EDC 37 is an IHE. Less sensitive CHEs are still CHEs. A vast gulf exists between CHE and IHE sensitivity.
I agree, but I am trying to find something that leaves no wiggle room, which I've struggled to find.
 
I agree, but I am trying to find something that leaves no wiggle room, which I've struggled to find.
I don't think it exists in the declassified literature. The UK doesn't have the same kinds of freedoms that we are used to having in the US in terms of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of information, etc. There is no corpus of FOIA'd and MDR'd records available. Sure, there's a small amount of historical documents that have been declassified, but very little compared to what has been declassified in the US. They don't even release the same information on major parts of their weapons programs that the US has. A lot of the information we have comes from US disclosures.

I think the only source that might possibly be able to find this type of document, if it even exists, would be the people running https://www.nuclearinfo.org/. They have access to a lot of documents, including ones that are not available anywhere online. It's unclear how many of them they retain copies of, but their internal reports on the UK nuclear weapon program are absurdly well researched, and some of the documents they refer to are outright inaccessible on the public internet.

Their researchers seem to have some level of access to the British nuclear weapons establishment's research library – probably something similar to the situation in the US where certain documents are technically available to the public, but in practice are only accessible by sending a physical researcher to a single physical location to dig through physical archives. I assume they have retained copies of at least some of the documents they have repeatedly referenced on the topic.

I would recommend trying to get in touch with them regarding this project and try to see if they can get you any information or copies of related documents that aren't available online, or perhaps see if get you in touch with any of the people who were involved in writing the internal research reports that mention/cover the EDC 37 component of the British nuclear weapons program (there are a number of these).
 
When three villagers from China’s Sichuan province wrote to local officials in 2022 asking why the government was confiscating their land and evicting them from their homes, they received a terse reply: It was a “state secret.”

That secret, a CNN investigation has found, centered on China’s covert plans to massively expand its nuclear ambitions.

More than three years after the evictions, satellite images show, their village has been flattened and, in its place, new buildings erected to support some of China’s most important nuclear weapons production facilities.

The expansion of the sites in Sichuan province, observed in satellite imagery and a review of dozens of Chinese government documents, supports recent claims by the administration of US President Donald Trump that Beijing has been conducting its most significant nuclear weapon modernization campaign in decades.

Trump is set to visit Beijing on a landmark trip next month where he is expected to try to begin a dialogue about a deal to curb Chinese leader Xi Jinping’s nuclear ambitions. Earlier this year, the latest arms reduction agreement between Russia and the United States – known as New START – expired, with Trump wanting to strike a new and improved deal with Moscow that would also include China.

But the dramatic changes seen at sites in Sichuan suggest that the nuclear weapons development of China’s military, known as the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), shows little sign of abating.

[snip]
 
France’s government is seeking to increase defense spending by a further €36 billion ($42 billion) between 2026 and 2030 in a bid to accelerate rearmament and build up stocks of weapons and drones.

Defense Minister Catherine Vautrin outlined proposals for a revised military programming law (LPM) to lawmakers on April 8, describing it as a “new course” for transforming the French Armed Forces.

….

The LPM also incorporates plans to expand France’s nuclear deterrent, as outlined by French President Emmanuel Macron in a speech in Brittany last month.

“Recent conflicts have confirmed the relevance of these choices,” Vautrin said. “But the profound and brutal evolution of international balances now requires us to move faster and more forcefully.”

She added that uncertainty in the transatlantic relationship demanded a “strategic awakening” in Europe. “The possibility of a significant withdrawal of American capabilities from our continent can no longer be dismissed,” she warned.

 
@bobbymike asked me to copy my comments on warheads from the Pershing Missiles thread into here so that they can be more easily searchable.



Comment #1 (original link)

Interesting I have this book and can’t recall reading about the “Advanced Mobile ICBM Warhead” at 500kt. Cannot find any other references to this weapon.
Sounds like Midgetman, but that was to be fired from CONUS.
That's just the original W87-1, which was actually literally just a reimplementation of the initial version of the original W87-0 design prior to it being forcibly converted to use a non-HEU secondary.

Yield is thought to be in the 455–475 kt range (most estimates cite 475 kt), but it is also considered a 500 kt nominal warhead, the same as the W88, which is probably why it's listed as 500 kt. Originally not a lot of information was known about the exact expected yield, so many earlier estimates simply called it a 500 kt warhead (which technically wasn't even all that far off from the mark either).

Basically, it's what the W87 was originally supposed to be.

Couldn't NATO have fielded a shorter range missile that would be able to hit Soviet FOBs without threatening Moscow?
Ironically this is exactly what the Pershing II was. It was never even close to being capable of hitting Moscow, but the Soviets had done their own technical analysis on the Pershing II's capabilities, and had somehow arrived at the (wholly inaccurate) conclusion that the missile had a 2500 km range and could therefore be used to hit Moscow when fired from within Western Germany, when in fact it only had a 1770 km range and was incapable of hitting Moscow when fired from Western-controlled soil.

They also thought that Pershing II had been deployed with an earth penetrating warhead, which was also false – we were working on developing a new warhead for the Pershing II which would have some level of earth penetrating capability, but this warhead was never completed and its development program was terminated before it could be deployed. The only warhead that was ever actively deployed on the Pershing II was wholly incapable of being used for earth penetration.

And even the one under development wasn't really much to write home about – it was a pretty good EPW design, but the warhead yield was extremely low, so it wouldn't have been very useful against many types of deeply buried targets. I guess it could have possibly posed a threat to Moscow if they had extremely shallow bomb shelters with the exact position known super precisely, but the yield was so comedically low that you'd have had to use a salvo of them just to have a somewhat plausible-ish chance of cracking a single shelter, and that's assuming unrealistically good accuracy, targeting knowledge, and penetration.

Also it overlooks the whole issue that it'd be impossible to hit Moscow from Western-occupied territory in the first place, which makes this a pointless exercise to begin with – by the time the Pershing units have moved close enough to attempt that kind of decapitation strike, we'd be deeply embroiled in a conventional war which would probably have already long since gone nuclear given American and Soviet doctrine at the time, and therefore the politburo would have had plenty of forewarning to evacuate Moscow long before any Pershing unit got anywhere near being within range of Moscow.

IMO the W86 was kind of pointless – the EPW research was certainly quite useful down the line, but the utility of such a low yield EPW warhead is very limited against many deeply buried targets. It could be useful for cracking open extremely shallow bunkers, but that's about it.

I can kind of see why they funded it given the other zany stuff that was still considered reasonable back in that era, but there were better ways to spend that money. Then again, I suppose it could have been intended from the start as a bargaining chip to apply pressure against the Soviets with.

Or maybe there truly were a lot of shallowly buried command posts scattered across Eastern Europe that the Pershing II EPW would have been ideally suited for taking out. Idk. It's somewhat plausible I suppose.

If nothing else, it could simply have been intended as a vehicle to get funding to conduct more R&D on nuclear EPWs, in which case I suppose it did its job reasonably well.

Not even close.

Early missiles were liquid fueled, and the really early ones were cryogenically fueled. The whole rigamarole with hours of preparation from when the rocket is put on the pad that we have with space launch rockets now? They had to do that for all the ballistic missiles back in the 1950s. It was super obvious, for hours or even days ahead of time, that missiles were being prepped for launch. And anything that would be coming down in Europe could be *seen* from Europe, by aircraft.

Switching to storable liquid propellants in the 1960s cut the prep time by a fair chunk, but there was still prep time, and it was still obvious enough to be seen on satellites. Now you had a couple of hours warning that the missiles were being prepped.

Switching to solid fuel in 1976 meant that there was next to no prep time. You'd know the missiles were being prepped to launch when you couldn't find them in their garrison parking lots, because they'd dispersed into the forest, and when the missiles were detected in the air.

Of course, the US had adopted solid fuel missiles in the 60s instead of going with storable liquid propellants, but the number of missiles they had in Europe was relatively tiny - there were only 180 Pershing I launchers total, but they were based in Germany and couldn't hit Russia at all (Belarus, Ukraine and Poland, yes, but not Russia). The Soviets started out deploying 300 SS-20s with three warheads each - five times as many warheads as the Pershings, and they could hit all of Europe, all the way to Iceland.
Storable liquids did not have any significant or detectable prep time. As long as the guidance systems were kept spun up, then the only limiting factor was the time to open the silo door and go through the launch sequence, which was extremely short for both storable liquids and solid propellants.

For example, the (storable liquids) Titan II could be hot launched from within the silo in under 60 seconds (some sources say under 58 seconds).

Similarly, the (solid propellant) Minuteman III can also be hot launched from within its silo in under 60 seconds.

The Soviets developed the technique of "ampulization" of their storable liquids ICBMs to allow leaving them fueled for extended periods of time (initially 5 years, then 10 years, and eventually as high as 15 years). This was deployed starting with the second generation of Soviet ICBMs, which were deployed in the 1965–1973 period.

There was no "couple of hours" warning once solids and ampulized storable liquids became mainstream, which happened quite rapidly.

For the Soviets, their ampulized storable liquid missiles were every bit as good as a solid propellant missile when it came to missile launch times.



Comment #2 (original link)

This was a1984 publication that mentions the MX/W87 so not sure why they wouldn’t mention it again in the context of a warhead for this missile.

It may very well be the W87 but Munster and Calmendro were floating around figured this might denote an additional possible warhead specific to this missile.
This was after the W87 had been forcibly reworked to remove the HEU and downgrade the yield. (There is even an in-text reference to this event having occurred in the source.)

The W87-1 was not officially designated as an independent program to the public until later. This would have been from early on in the program before the warhead officially received a public designation number (it is also possible that it had already received an internal designation number by this point (presumably XW87-1), but these are usually not shared with the public directly until program development is complete enough to assign a non-X designation number to the weapon).

There were only a very limited number of warhead secondaries tested in the time period prior to the TTBT, and of those with a yield of 500 kt in a full yield (HEU secondary) configuration, the only one known to exist is the Almendro/Cursa secondary design that was used in the W87-0, W87-1, and W88. Based on public nuclear test yield records, it is extremely unlikely that another 500 kt secondary design was tested to a sufficient extent to allow use during this period, as there simply weren't enough tests of the prerequisite yield occurring during that time period to support this assertion.

Due to the TTBT having entered into action, it was no longer possible to develop a new secondary design from scratch for use in a new warhead with a yield exceeding approximately 300 kt (and arguably it was no longer possible to develop any new secondary with a yield exceeding 150 kt given how the previous custom had been to always conduct multiple full yield tests during each test campaign), and therefore any new 500 kt warhead would have to rely on using a secondary design that had already been fully tested and qualified prior to the TTBT entering into force.

The other options evaluated for MX had significantly higher yields, and are therefore not a plausible explanation for this option.



Comment #3 (original link)

Why did the downgrade occur?
It is not widely known, but the W87 was actually originally developed as a ~500 kt warhead, and it had originally been planned for it to be much more widely deployed than it actually ended up being, with over 1000 W87 warheads planned for deployment aboard Peacekeeper (MX) missiles.

The issue that appeared was that this was the same time period that several other major new warhead programs were being developed, chiefly the W88 and the B83. While the number of B83s being procured was somewhat limited, the exceptionally high yield of the weapon demanded a huge quantity of high enriched uranium (HEU) per weapon, and multiplied across 650 warheads, this was a huge quantity of weapons-grade HEU needed. There were multiple other smaller new warhead programs other than the B83 which also needed correspondingly large quantities of HEU. But the single biggest issue was the W88, which was expected to be deployed in quantities ranging from 3500–4600 warheads or greater aboard the forthcoming Trident II missile, which was planned to be carried across the entire Ohio class submarine program – a program that at one point was planned to procure at least 24 submarines. Therefore, a total of potentially as many as 4000–5000 W88 warheads would need to be manufactured for the Trident/Ohio fleet.

Each W88 required copious amounts of HEU in order to meet its planned yield of approximately 455–475 kt, and when this was multiplied across as many as 4000–5000 W88 warheads, this represented an enormous drain on US stockpiles of HEU. When this was combined with the projected need to manufacture a minimum of 1000 W87 warheads, it became clear that the US simply did not have enough available weapons-grade HEU remaining in inventory to be able to construct the 5000–6000 500 kt warhead secondaries needed for both programs.

For various reasons, it was eventually determined that either the W87 or the W88 would have to modify the weapon's design to remove the HEU in its secondary, as the US simply did not possess enough HEU to supply both programs with HEU secondaries at their planned production run sizes.

While it would be quite easy to replace the HEU with NU or DU in either weapon, and such a change would be unlikely to require any significant additional nuclear testing, this change would reduce the yield of either warhead from nearly 500 kt (455–475 kt) to only around 300 kt.

It was eventually decided that the Air Force would have to take the hit despite their program's much smaller number of warheads. The Air Force was not at all happy about this decision, and vigorously protested, but it was to no avail, and they were forced to have the W87 redesigned to use a NU/DU secondary in lieu of the originally planned HEU secondary.

This was an especially painful defeat for the Air Force, as the MX had long been envisioned as carrying 10–11 very high yield 500 kt warheads, and indeed much of the justification for building the Mk21/W87 instead of sticking with the Mk12A/W78 (the missile was actually initially planned to reuse the Mk12A/W78 until fairly late in its development) had been based in the substantial increase in warhead yield from switching to the W87.

Indeed, warheads of a variety of yields were considered for the MX when it was decided to build a new warhead instead of continuing with the original plan of reusing the Mk12A/W78, as the ABRV had been designed to be capable of being scaled up to carry larger warheads. Specifically, 600 kt and 800 kt warheads were considered before the 500 kt warhead design was chosen as the final candidate. There are no indications that any design with a yield under 500 kT was ever considered. This was of course in part because the W78's 340 kt yield, while considerable, was still not perfectly ideal for cracking ultra hard targets, especially given the Mk12A's inherently significantly inferior accuracy relative to the ABRV.

While the MX possessed admirably high accuracy, a rather large part of the accuracy of any ICBM lies in the design of the reentry vehicle, and in fact a very large part of why the MX ultimately attained as high of an accuracy as it did was due to the exceptionally large amounts of effort that had been invested into developing the ABRV, which was carefully optimized from the start to minimize every possible source of accuracy loss to the maximum extent that was technologically feasible. This went as far as to replacing the entire RV separation system with a completely new design, because the existing system on the Mk12A imparted a slight amount of error during separation. There are dozens if not hundreds of other micro-optimizations like this one that were incorporated into the ABRV. All of that added up to make the ABRV an absurd leap in RV performance.

While you could in theory have integrated the W78's warhead into the ABRV, doing so would have been a waste of money. One major goal with the W87 was to improve safety and reliability, and part of that goal was achieved by redesigning the entire warhead. The W78 used conventional high explosives, lacked advanced safety devices, lacked a fire resistant pit, and had various other deficiencies. The W87 had been built from scratch with insensitive high explosives, incorporated all of the latest and greatest safety devices (drastically improving safety compared to the W78), had a fire resistant pit cladding added, and incorporated various other improvements. Unlike the Navy, the Air Force missiles were under constant maintenance, and the amount of warhead handling and long-distance transport required to maintain the ground based ICBM force was immensely greater than what was needed for naval SLBMs. Accordingly, the Air Force placed a very high value on obtaining a safer warhead that was less hazardous to its personnel.

Also, by using IHE, different methods could be used for constructing the warheads and installing them in their reentry vehicles. These different methods allowed for drastically higher throughput and much less labor and facility space requirements to perform construction steps, which significantly reduced assembly costs, and therefore significantly reduced the cost to construct each warhead vs the cost to construct a warhead utilizing traditional conventional high explosives.

The biggest issue was the one of using bays vs cells for construction.

With IHE, bays can provide adequate isolation, as the probability of an explosion is extremely low, and warheads in adjacent cells are unlikely to detonate as the shielding between cells is sufficient to protect from the blast igniting the IHE in other warheads.

With CHE, cells are the only option that could meet minimum safety standards. If bays were used for CHE, then a blast in one bay could conceivably detonate the CHE in adjacent bays even through the blast shielding between bays (admittedly it may be more likely to act by bypassing the shielding and channeling through the corridor rather than by propagating through the shielding, but the effect from either is identical), and that was an unacceptable safety hazard.

There was also a concern about warheads being moved between bays and their exposure to blast effects. With IHE, a warhead in transit may not go off. With CHE, a warhead in transit is all but guaranteed to also go off.

You can look up information on the Pantex plant bays and cells and explosive handling procedures to find out more about this.

Anyways, once the Air Force decided that they needed a new warhead, they decided they wanted a 500 kt warhead instead of a 600 or 800 kt warhead, likely because this allowed for cramming more warheads on the missile. As for why they didn't go for a smaller warhead, well, the existing W78 was already a 340 kt warhead, and they had a 500 kt design available that wouldn't be much larger or heavier than the W78, so it seemed like a no-brainer to adopt that design, especially so as doing so would even further increase the SSKP of the new warhead against the hardest of target classes. MX was intended from the start to be the ultimate hard target killer, and a 500 kt warhead paired with the accuracy of the ABRV+MX combo would substantially outperform every other land based missile that had ever been fielded in terms of hard target performance.

But when the Navy designed the W88, they wanted basically the same thing, except they didn't give a rat's ass about warhead safety (or cost), didn't need it to survive being fired from as long of a range as the land based missiles, and placed such a high premium on slashing every kilogram of weight (and liter of volume) from the RB that they demanded a number of special design features be incorporated into their warhead to optimize it for naval use.

(I originally started going into detail on everything involved in the naval W88 program here, but I excised that section from my final answer as it was still an incomplete draft and was promising to end up being far too lengthy to incorporate into this comment without veering way too far off topic and making it too hard to read my reply.)

You can sum this up as "the Navy demanded that they get a special variant built just for them, which reused the same secondary design and much of the same RV design (albeit heavily modified), but changed tons of other things to adapt it for naval use and incorporate a newer upgrades (some very major, some less so) into the design".

Now, a solid argument exists that the Navy went overboard on yield. However the Navy wanted a hard target killer, and the 500 kt Cursa/Almendro secondary was a perfect fit for their ambitions. And with this being the Navy, if they downgraded to a more reasonable 300 kt, they'd have probably demanded that this be done using a scratch-designed secondary in order to optimize warhead weight and volume. It's unclear if a well-tested 300 kt secondary option existed at this time, and thanks to the TTBT, new secondaries for these higher-yield warheads could not be developed anymore. There is a good argument that they could have used a W78 secondary, but the Navy wanted 500 kt, and that's what they got.

You may be wondering why the Navy won out over the Air Force, especially when the two platforms had fairly similar CEPs (and even more so considering how the Naval platform was the one packed with CEP-enhancing tech like the SSNT and the RUPL).

From a technical standpoint, there was actually a robust technical argument that the HEU should have been allocated to the W87 instead of the W88.

However from a political standpoint, the W87 was married to the hyper-controversial MX program (which had little political capital left to defend itself when what little political capital they had was tied up in defending the MX missile itself, and therefore minimal leverage to protect against the loss of HEU), while the W88 was tied to the comparatively totally uncontroversial Trident submarine/missile programs (which had tons of political capital, and therefore far more leverage to demand that the HEU be allocated to them).

So unsurprisingly, the Navy won the fight, and the HEU was allocated to the Navy's W88 program, with the Air Force being ordered to redesign the W87 to remove the HEU from its secondary (producing what we now know as the W87-0 or W87 today). The resulting decrease in yield left the warhead with even less yield than its predecessor (300 kt vs 340 kt), but the dramatic increases in accuracy from the massively improved missile guidance and reentry vehicle meant that it was still a far more capable warhead than the W78, even if it still wasn't quite as powerful or effective as the initial plan had called for.

This all happened during the early development of both programs.

The earliest reference to the yield downgrade that I am aware of occurred in an article published on January 17th 1983 that was covering the decision by the Navy to develop a new warhead for the Trident missile (ie the W88).

The decision by the DoD to replace the Peacekeeper's original Mk12A/W78 warhead with the new Mk21/W87 warhead was only made in 1982.

Due to the lack of reliable detailed information regarding the timelines of the W87 and W88 programs (largely because most documents on these warheads are still highly classified as active weapon systems and therefore largely immune to FOIA/MDR), it is not possible to say exactly when the HEU shortage issue was first flagged, exactly when the conflict between the two forces happened, exactly when the conflict was first resolved, etc.

Part of this stems from the fact that the warhead secondary was developed far in advance of the actual warhead itself, and part stems from the fuzzy boundaries between weapon system development start, weapon system development authorization, design finalization, etc.

If I had to hazard a guess though, I'd assume the problem likely first cropped up and got addressed sometime in the 1980–1982 time frame.

Probably something like XW-87-X1.
Developmental designations can vary. If it had been developed normally, it would have likely been assigned a XW-87 or XW-87-X0 designation, and the actual W87-0 would likely have been assigned the XW-87-X1 designation. But we don't know at what phase this issue occurred. If it had been early enough, there may not even have been two variants by the time that the designation was being assigned. If it was later, then odds are the X0 variant is the original design, the X1 variant is the W87-0, and either the X0 or a X2 variant was the original W87-1 design. If that's the case, then the current new W87-1 variant could potentially be labeled the XW-87-X3. But without FOIA'd/MDR'd files (which are unlikely to get released within either of our lifetimes at this point given how entrenched both warheads are in the long term plans for the US nuclear arsenal), we'll never know for sure.

The EPA and FBI storming the Rocky Flats production area and shutting them down for massive violations of more or less every environmental and radiological-controls law.
Nah, this is simply why the W88 program ended up only producing ~10% of the planned production run. It has no relation to the original decision to force either the W87 or the W88 to give up their HEU secondary in order to ensure adequate HEU stockpiles would be available to construct the full planned production run of both warheads, the resulting decision to force the Air Force to be the one to drop their HEU secondary, the subsequent redesign of the W87 to use a non-HEU secondary and consequent loss of yield relative to the originally planned design, or any of the other related events.

It is highly ironic though, since thanks to the rocky flat fire the government was forced to deploy the Mk4/W76 aboard the D5 missiles, and as a result all of a sudden we had a huge surplus of weapons grade HEU due to the de facto forced cancellation of the W88 program.

Then the Cold War ended and subsequent reductions in warhead numbers thanks to the peace dividend and multiple new arms control agreements flooded the DoE/NNSA with more surplus WGHEU than we could ever use, to such a degree that we started downblending huge amounts of it with DU tails and selling it to commercial reactor operators just to get rid of the stuff.

(Okay, that last bit was technically part of a bilateral arms control agreement to permanently draw down surplus military HEU stockpiles via disposal in commercial power reactors rather than a necessity, but the point still stands – it's kind of hilarious how much WGHEU we simply declared as surplus to requirements and disposed of, and just how much still remains even after all of that.)


 
It is a civilian plant using technology developed by a FR-NL consortium that is explicitly embargoed for civilian use purposes only and not provided to foreign partners for unrestricted use. I don't think the UK even has access to Urenco centrifuge designs, let alone manufacturing capabilities for them – I'm pretty sure they imported those centrifuges from France or the Netherlands, and it sounds like Urenco also built and operates the facility. So unless they want to nationalize a civilian facility and violate the technology use terms in such a flagrant manner that would be almost as disruptive to UK political relations (and access to global enrichment and uranium markets) as restarting nuclear testing, that's not a serious option.
Which french-dutch consortium are you talking about ?
And why would the German and British partners of Urenco not have access to centrifuge designs ?
France is not part of Urenco since France's enrichement company is Orano.
 
Which french-dutch consortium are you talking about ?
Enrichment Technology Company (ETC), which is a joint venture between Urenco and Orano.

ETC is the sole source for design, manufacturing, supply, installation, and support of gas centrifuges used by its customers worldwide since 2003. Every modern Urenco gas centrifuge plant uses ETC centrifuge technology. The ETC centrifuge technology is export restricted and has mandatory peaceful use obligations attached to it.

The original Urenco centrifuge technology also has the same restrictions and obligations attached to it.

And why would the German and British partners of Urenco not have access to centrifuge designs ?
The national partners do not have access to the technology. It is supplied in a "black boxed" form to all EU/US enrichment sites. In fact, Urenco and Orano employees also don't have access to the technology. The only ones with access are ETC's direct employees. All of the manufacturing and R&D work is confined to ETC.

Some limited amount of information is shared with national partners for the purposes of allowing oversight to take place for the purpose of ensuring non-proliferation and safety, however the core technology is not shared.

There is some indication that the agreement between the national partners may permit a national partner to take LEU produced at their national enrichment plant using Urenco technology and further enrich it to HEU for military purposes. So for example the U.K. government would be permitted to take LEU produced by Capenhurst, and futher enrich it to HEU.

However, this requires that the uranium feedstock used to feed the cascade is 100% sourced from suppliers that do not attach peaceful use obligations to their uranium. My understanding is that unless you operate your own national uranium extraction and processing companies, it is effectively impossible to source unobligated uranium.

So from a practical standpoint, this carve-out in the agreement is pretty much completely useless to the U.K.

France is not part of Urenco since France's enrichement company is Orano.
Yes, but Orano has 50% ownership of ETC, and therefore France has a 50% stake in Urenco's sole source for centrifuge R&D, manufacturing, installation, and support.

The Urenco share in ETC is also structured weirdly, with the NL DE division holding an outsized share.
 
Last edited:
The United Kingdom holds significant, long-term stocks of uranium, primarily composed of depleted, natural, and low-enriched uranium (DNLEU), which are managed as resources for future energy production rather than waste. As of recent inventory reports, there are roughly 110,000 tonnes of heavy metal (tHM) of DNLEU in stock, with future arisings estimated at another 88,000 tHM.

The UK is exploring options to re-establish a nuclear fuel cycle for defense purposes, specifically to secure fuel for its nuclear-powered submarines and the future AUKUS-class submarines, partly because the US has reduced its own production capacity.
 
@JTR So the french wiki is completely wrong ?
For example, the french share (50%) is not owned by Orano but Areva (or do they mean NewAreva which became Orano ?) ... also there are major installations in the UK and Germany…
How is the Urenco share more Dutch than British/German ?


Enrichment Technology is a company that designs, manufactures, and installs gas centrifuges. These are used in enrichment plants by Enrichment Technology’s customers to make uranium usable in nuclear reactors.

Enrichment Technology also designs and builds uranium enrichment plants for its customers. These facilities operate based on gas centrifugation technology. Enrichment Technology employs nearly 2,000 people across seven sites in five countries: the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Germany, the United States, and France.

Structure​

Enrichment Technology is a joint venture between Urenco and Areva. It makes its gas centrifugation technology available exclusively to the subsidiaries of these two shareholders.

Enrichment Technology’s activities are divided into three main areas:
  • Research and development in gas centrifugation technology;
  • Manufacturing of centrifuges and cascade piping;
  • Design of enrichment plants and project management (as contracting authority).
The Enrichment Technology joint venture, founded in 2006, is registered in the United Kingdom. Its headquarters are located in Almelo, in the Netherlands. Enrichment Technology Company Limited is the holding company of the Enrichment Technology group. Enrichment Technology currently has five subsidiaries located in five countries, in Europe and the United States:
  • In the Netherlands: headquarters and main manufacturing site;
  • In the United Kingdom: center for plant design and project management;
  • In Germany: manufacturing site and research and development center;
  • In France: construction site;
  • In the United States: construction site.

History​

Enrichment Technology was created in 2003 to provide Urenco with centrifugation technology and equipment.

In 2006, the company became a joint venture between Areva and Urenco, becoming a global leader in enrichment technology.

Gas centrifugation technology​

Gas centrifugation uses centrifuges to separate different uranium isotopes so that the enriched form can be used in a nuclear reactor.

Previously, different technologies were used for this purpose: laser processes, electromagnetic separation, liquid thermal diffusion, and gaseous diffusion. Gas centrifugation consumes less than 2% of the energy required by the older gaseous diffusion process.
 
Last edited:
For example, the french share is not owned by Orano but Areva (or do they mean NewAreva which became Orano ?)
The original JV was between Urenco and Areva. When Areva was split up, New Areva inherited the JV. Eventually New Areva was renamed to Orano.

I used the most widely used terms for ownership, which state that it was a JV between Urenco and Orano. To the best of my knowledge, this continues to be the case into the present day, as only old Areva has been renamed back to Framatome, while new Areva has continued to operate under the Orano name.

also there are major installations in the UK and Germany
There are two types of installation – enrichment plants, and ETC operations.

In the UK, there are two entities.

One is an Urenco enrichment plant. This houses a cascade of black boxed ETC centrifuges.

The other is an office for ETC. This office does not house any R&D, manufacturing, assembly, or other services. It is only a business office.

In Germany, there are two entities.

One is an Urenco enrichment plant. This houses a cascade of black boxed ETC centrifuges.

The other is an actual R&D/manufacturing facility for ETC.

How is the Urenco share more Dutch than British/German ?
Sorry, I got it backwards, it's actually more German than UK/NL.

The ownership of ETC is supposedly 50% Orano (née Areva), 22% Urenco Ltd, and 28% Urenco Deutschland.

I'm not sure quite why the ownership split was done this way, but I suppose it may be because Germany has played an outsize role in Urenco centrifuge tech R&D since the early days of Urenco centrifuges (notably the first NL design was a flop and the next design used was a German centrifuge).
 
Last edited:
In regards to some of the publicly available technical details of the W88 wasn't there a fair bit revealed in an article in the 1998 or 1999 GQ magazine (A September issue IIRC) around the time of the Wen Ho Lee scandal?
 
The United Kingdom holds significant, long-term stocks of uranium, primarily composed of depleted, natural, and low-enriched uranium (DNLEU), which are managed as resources for future energy production rather than waste. As of recent inventory reports, there are roughly 110,000 tonnes of heavy metal (tHM) of DNLEU in stock, with future arisings estimated at another 88,000 tHM.

The UK is exploring options to re-establish a nuclear fuel cycle for defense purposes, specifically to secure fuel for its nuclear-powered submarines and the future AUKUS-class submarines, partly because the US has reduced its own production capacity.
They also have the largest weapons grade Pu stockpile in the world thanks to THORP.
 
So in that case what is stopping us from building our own new nuclear bombs or even missiles?
 
Somebody messing with the budget unfortunately, then finds out there is no money to spend on defence which is now more important than ever.
 
I would think getting your own SLBMs would be high on the list. Right now, as I understand it, the US and UK draw D-5s from a common pool? While that is convenient for both parties, if you want to go your own way, I'd think you'd want to cut that leash.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom