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9M730 Burevestnik (SSC-X-9 Skyfall) cruise nuclear-powered missile

Brickmuppet

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Putin announcerd that the Russians are developing a nuclear powered strategic cruise missile. Presumably it would be armed with a nuclear warhead since flying an open cycle reactor over anyone would probably be a nuclear attack anyway.

http://kcur.org/post/experts-aghast-over-russian-claim-nuclear-powered-missile-unlimited-range

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/world/putin-russia-tested-nuclear-powered-cruise-missile-impervious-to-us-defense-shields/2018/03/01/d76fc088-1d54-11e8-98f5-ceecfa8741b6_video.html?utm_term=.dab103b71d25
http://time.com/5180690/putin-russia-nuclear-weapons/
http://abcnews.go.com/International/russian-president-vladimir-putin-unveils-nuclear-weapons-listen/story?id=53435150



The announcement was made as part of the 2 hour State of the Federation Speech. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDGvrdqQZVY.
The mention of the nuclear cruise missile begins at about 1:29. note that it makes an evasive manuver to avoid detection.....around Cape Horn.
There's also mention of the Kanyon/Status 6 nuclear port buster at 1:32.


The USAF says that this is consistent with recent readings of radio active particles though they don't believe the weapon is operational, and indeed crashed during testing..

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/03/pentagon-confirms-that-russia-is-testing-a-cruise-missile-powered-by-an-unshielded-nuclear-reactor.html
http://abcnews.go.com/International/russias-cruise-missile-crashed-testing-us-official/story?id=53440771

There is much breathlessness at the links but I'm curious what those of a more technical bent think. Obviously there's nothing inherently impossible about such a weapon (Pluto was developed decades ago). I wonder if, despite the R&D expenditures these could actually be fairly cost effective from the Russian point of view, since they would involve mainly refinements of existing technology and only a few dozen might need to be procured to have a deterrent effect.


Anyway, any thoughts on this?
 

Avimimus

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

At least it is smaller than Pluto was planned to be...?? Looking for a silver lining here.

The engineering side of me is a bit interested in the power-plant. The human side of me is just, you know, scared for civilisation (as usual).
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

I kinda want this to be true if only to see how the news will be received in certain quarters. Had the US announced that we'd developed such a weapon, the outrage would break the clouds.
 

flateric

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

It's not an open cycle if you reading more correct translation:

Russia’s advanced arms are based on the cutting-edge, unique achievements of our scientists, designers and engineers. One of them is a small-scale heavy-duty nuclear energy unit that can fit inside a missile like our latest X-101 air-launched missile or the American Tomahawk missile providing it with a range dozens - dozens! - of times longer, basically an unlimited range. It is a low-flying stealth missile carrying a nuclear warhead, with almost an unlimited range, unpredictable trajectory and ability to bypass interception boundaries. It is invincible against all existing and prospective missile defense and counter-air defense systems. I will repeat this several times today.

In late 2017, Russia successfully launched its latest missile with nuclear power unit at the Central training ground. During its flight, the power unit reached its design capacity and provided the necessary thrust.

Now that the missile launch and ground tests were successful, we can begin developing a completely new type of weapon, a strategic nuclear weapons system with a nuclear-powered missile.
Corrected to match original speech from http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/56957
 

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asiscan

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

Yeah "Plutoski" it seems.."virtually unlimited range (assuming this is depending on reactor and ramjet structural integrity), low altitude, high Mach and pretty much unstoppable". Seems to be very familiar from say 1955 to 1964 and again briefly in the early 80's. The only thing missing from official news is the delivery of multiple strategic warheads which would seem to be limited due to the smaller airframe in comparison to the little Pluto, the proposed Convair "Big Stick" and probably with a TERCOM secondary nav system. Appears to be equipped with swept, tapered wings including a long single ventral fin, possibly due to the booster arrangement. There is no observable be ramjet inlet nacelle, obscured by the boosters. Given the amount of time between the "Pluto" concept studies and the neo-soviet flight hardware it appears to be nothing new but quite plausible. As it is stated as a propulsion system test vehicle from which new doomsday missiles will be based on it can only validate as" sabre-rattling" for Cold War II and perhaps keeping one's own political career more than an operational missile. Don't forget the "red mercury" claims some 20 years ago..
 

Michel Van

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

They have tested that dam thing right under our nose...

Remember those report of strange nuclear fall out over Europe and Alaska ?
in Europe it was ruthenium 106 isotope, the Alaska case particle with enrich uranium

honestly, last week i was speculating at Google+ that someone was testing Nuclear Engine in Russia or China
Now Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin presented the four column of New Russia nuclear deterrence


means, we are back to old good time of...


Source:
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/11/22/16691374/russia-admits-mysterious-radiation-cloud
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/10/563286253/mysterious-radioactive-cloud-over-europe-hints-at-accident-farther-east
https://www.sciencealert.com/a-mysterious-radioactive-particle-has-been-detected-in-the-skies-over-alaska
 

flateric

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

Oh, please, just a little bit fact checking using at least calendar and maps next time before posting about connection of missile test and Ruthenium...
 

asiscan

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

Keep in mind that despite the *assumed* launch video with no date and no confirmed info directly corresponds with a return to incumbency political effort . Proceeding with such a concept would violate numerous treaties, otherwise it would have already happened. Me thinks there's an odor of "fake-ski news" in it to appease the domestic market.
 

flateric

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

"Unnamed source at MIC" says that missile only carried power imitator onboard during test flight (s), not the real nuclear power unit.
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

flateric said:
It's not an open cycle if you reading more correct translation:

Russia’s advanced arms are based on the cutting-edge, unique achievements of our scientists, designers and engineers. One of them is a small-scale heavy-duty nuclear energy unit that can fit inside a missile like our latest X-101 air-launched missile or the American Tomahawk missile providing it with a range dozens - dozens! - of times longer, basically an unlimited range. It is a low-flying stealth missile carrying a nuclear warhead, with almost an unlimited range, unpredictable trajectory and ability to bypass interception boundaries. It is invincible against all existing and prospective missile defense and counter-air defense systems. I will repeat this several times today.

In late 2017, Russia successfully launched its latest missile with nuclear power unit at the Central training ground. During its flight, the power unit reached its design capacity and provided the necessary thrust.

Now that the missile launch and ground tests were successful, we can begin developing a completely new type of weapon, a strategic nuclear weapons system with a nuclear-powered missile.
Corrected to match original speech from http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/56957
Ah.
Thanks for that!
 

Michel Van

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

i have question

That X-101 is that part of Kh-55 family of cruise missile ?

its about Launch of X-101 there Russian will certain use existing System, like for Kh-55
in that case the Size of X-101 must same as the Kh-55, right ?
 

AeroFranz

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

Granted it could be nothing more than a fake stunt for disinformation/propaganda purposes, but...really?
You must be a particular brand of deranged to justify the development of such weapon. Does it really add any deterrence value that SLBMs and ICBMs already don't?
By the way, for engineering development purposes, you most likely want to test fly the real thing, subsystems and all. Otherwise your predicted reliability and performance figures are BS. I didn't quite understand what was actually tested so far, i'm actually too pissed off to do the research right now. But what's a normal test program composed of? I can't imagine it's less than a couple dozen flights. How do you do that, and how do you cope with the very real probability of test flight mishaps? end of rant :mad:
 

flateric

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

Michel Van said:
i have question

That X-101 is that part of Kh-55 family of cruise missile ?

its about Launch of X-101 there Russian will certain use existing System, like for Kh-55
in that case the Size of X-101 must same as the Kh-55, right ?
They are different missiles, Kh-101 being larger and heavier. But why have you decided that a new missile will be air-launched? That's not _so obvious_.
 

Orionblamblam

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

AeroFranz said:
You must be a particular brand of deranged to justify the development of such weapon. Does it really add any deterrence value that SLBMs and ICBMs already don't?
I wouldn't think so. A weapon like this could only be used in the event of The Big War, or else it would *spark* The Big War. It would provide no advantages in capability over ICBMs; the claims about defeating American missile defenses are silly, because there's no form of US missile defense system that would be at all useful in the event of a major war between the US and Russia. Pluto only made sense sixty years ago because ICBMs were unproven and Pluto provided a way to bomb the other side of the planet.
 

Avimimus

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

It does make sense under two circumstances:

1) Russia isn't confident in its SLBM and ICBM deterrents being invulnerable by mid-century (could it be possible that ABM works really well?)

2) Russia wants to prove that 'the bomber always gets through' to NATO policy makers and the public. They think this is the only way to get the message across to idiots.

I think something which we may be missing is the possibility of boost-intercept ABM systems being used for a first-strike. This was actually a concern raised by a few years ago Putin officially (and combined with a warning that perceived first-strike capable systems would be met by developing improved deterrence weapons).

The direst interpretation would be simply that they want the weapons for prestige purposes. I think the best way to test Russian intent would be to return to disarmament talks and see how they react.
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

The concern is at least with Mk41 Aegis ashore that can hold BGM-109 in theory and that to be used for a first strike.
As for missile defense, well they might be useful to counter missile trowed at Europe, but even that will not work against a Russian large attack, unless Russia can't manage a large scale attack... Which is not the case.
 

kcran567

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

Are cruise missiles likely targets for the F-35 and other fighters? would that type of patrol be a good counter to these in a wartime situation or is that unlikely if the cruise missile is stealthy? Would a fighter force like F-35, Mig-31 etc. be overwhelmed dealing with other air targets? If it works seems like Russia is making good use of its resources and have some very good deterrents while busting the USA budget.
 

sferrin

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

tomcat1974 said:
The concern is at least with Mk41 Aegis ashore that can hold BGM-109 in theory and that to be used for a first strike.
As for missile defense, well they might be useful to counter missile trowed at Europe, but even that will not work against a Russian large attack, unless Russia can't manage a large scale attack... Which is not the case.
BGM-109 isn't a first-strike weapon. It's not even nuclear. (Gryphon wasn't a first strike weapon either. Pershing II on the other hand. . .)
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

But that is exactly what they are pedaling on...
 

Avimimus

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

I think the Russian argument was that depressed trajectory missiles aren't that different technologically and could be concealed among the high energy ballistic missile interceptors stationed on their borders. At least that was my impression.
 

sferrin

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

tomcat1974 said:
But that is exactly what they are pedaling on...
Who is "pedaling" on what? Russia is trying to say Aegis Ashore is a first strike weapon?
 

Avimimus

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

sferrin said:
tomcat1974 said:
But that is exactly what they are pedaling on...
Who is "pedaling" on what? Russia is trying to say Aegis Ashore is a first strike weapon?
ArcLight?
 

marauder2048

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

tomcat1974 said:
The concern is at least with Mk41 Aegis ashore that can hold BGM-109 in theory and that to be used for a first strike.
As for missile defense, well they might be useful to counter missile trowed at Europe, but even that will not work against a Russian large attack, unless Russia can't manage a large scale attack... Which is not the case.
It's all premised on a conjectural US first strike where:

1. The US destroys all Russian boomers at sea or in their ports
2. US stealth bombers + stealth cruise missiles destroy all Russian heavy ICBMs in their siloes.
3. US SLBMs destroy the Russian heavy rail-mobile ICBMs
4. US SLBMs destroy most of the road-mobile lCBMs
5. The remaining road-mobile ICBMs which survive to launch are intercepted by Aegis Ashore or some boost/ascent or other BMD system
6. The US threatens to use its full inventory of ICBMs in a counter-recovery attack unless the Russians submit

The Russians interpret the deliberate vulnerability of the Aegis Ashore sites as evidence that it's part of
a preemptive/first strike plan.
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

The nuclear engine. if it's truly indirect cycle. then it would be the smallest known nuclear jet engine. I'm curious about the heat exchange medium, and perhaps the design of the reactor, perhaps the medium would be some kind of fins. jet engine layout would be a turbofan with kinda large bypass ratio.
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/2018/03/01/752503-ssha-usomnilis

A source close to the military-industrial complex told Vedomosti that radiation safety during the testing of the missile was ensured. The nuclear installation on board was represented by an electric mock-up, the source said.
 

sferrin

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

Avimimus said:
sferrin said:
tomcat1974 said:
But that is exactly what they are pedaling on...
Who is "pedaling" on what? Russia is trying to say Aegis Ashore is a first strike weapon?
ArcLight?
Was cancelled years ago.
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

An idea of using a nuclear powered cruise missile is very shaky, especially knowing Russian technological reliability. Such a missile would be a threat to Russia itself as it could create a radioactive fallout .
All this circus comes right before the upcoming elections in Russia, or a mockery of elections one might say. Putin can not brag about economy being diversified, salaries increased and promises kept, so he goes North Korea gangnam style by threatening west with new weapons. By creating external enemies Putin is trying to sidetrack the gullible people from realizing that he is the actual enemy and warrant of endless poverty in Russia. Putin even said that the west was not listening to him, and that now they will. No Mr . Putin, west is not going to listen to you ever. As long as you attack neighbouring countries and spread poverty everywhere you go, the west will strangle you with new and new sanctions.
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

flateric said:
https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/2018/03/01/752503-ssha-usomnilis

A source close to the military-industrial complex told Vedomosti that radiation safety during the testing of the missile was ensured. The nuclear installation on board was represented by an electric mock-up, the source said.
I'd be interested to know how they power it. A heat exchanger with the same thermal power output as a nuclear reactor is certainly doable, but the power required to heat the heat exchanger would mean that any known system would be able to run probably for only a few seconds. Maybe enough to demonstrate thrust.

I've been wondering if what this is *supposed* to represent is not a conventional nuclear reactor, but a hafnium isomer "nuclear battery" that gained all kinds of attention a decade or so ago. The fact that the isomer system seems to not pass theoretical muster might not preclude clever charlatans or deluded zealots from getting the funds to test a demonstrator.
 

flateric

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

The other interesting question is - if we trust the speech in regards of missile test with nuclear power unit onboard (I'm rather not a believer in the case) - what you gonna do with the missile when the test is _over_?
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

flateric said:
The other interesting question is - if we trust the speech in regards of missile test with nuclear power unit onboard (I'm rather not a believer in the case) - what you gonna do with the missile when the test is _over_?
The US side of story
The Tory series of Nuclear Ramjet was tested in Nevada desert at Area 26 aka "Jackass Flats" from 1961 and 1964.
after successful testing the plan was to build SLAM Airframe for Tory-IIC Engine and fly it remote controlled in Pacific, i thing it was at Johnson Atoll.
but as program enter that stage, McNamara pult the plug out the SLAM Program.
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

Michel Van said:
The Tory series of Nuclear Ramjet was tested in Nevada desert at Area 26 aka "Jackass Flats" from 1961 and 1964.
after successful testing the plan was to build SLAM Airframe for Tory-IIC Engine and fly it remote controlled in Pacific, i thing it was at Johnson Atoll.
The suggested flight path featured a terminal dive into the ocean over the Marianas Trench so that the reactor and airframe would sink to the deepest spot on Earth. I have doubts how effective that would be... even as rugged as the missile was supposed to be, smacking into the water at high speed while still heat-soaked would probably have caused it and the reactor to break up into itty-bitty-bits.
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

flateric said:
The other interesting question is - if we trust the speech in regards of missile test with nuclear power unit onboard (I'm rather not a believer in the case) - what you gonna do with the missile when the test is _over_?
Reel in the long tether. ;D
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

Hi,
some interesting news (in Russian only...).

https://lenta.ru/articles/2018/08/23/burevestnik/

Bye

Temistocle
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

Nagumo said:
SSC-X-9 SKYFALL = Burevestnik https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/1064991343624237059
 

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Re: New Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile

Orionblamblam said:
Michel Van said:
The Tory series of Nuclear Ramjet was tested in Nevada desert at Area 26 aka "Jackass Flats" from 1961 and 1964.
after successful testing the plan was to build SLAM Airframe for Tory-IIC Engine and fly it remote controlled in Pacific, i thing it was at Johnson Atoll.
The suggested flight path featured a terminal dive into the ocean over the Marianas Trench so that the reactor and airframe would sink to the deepest spot on Earth. I have doubts how effective that would be... even as rugged as the missile was supposed to be, smacking into the water at high speed while still heat-soaked would probably have caused it and the reactor to break up into itty-bitty-bits.
It would make them pretty hard for another power to retrieve though.
 

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Re: 9M730 Burevestnik (SSC-X-9 Skyfall) cruise niclear-powered missile

Staff Writers for Launchspace, "Russia's New Hypersonic Nuclear Weapon", 29 January 2019
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russias_New_Hypersonic_Nuclear_Weapon_999.html

… was a catchy misleading news "article" confusing the Buresvestnik (supersonic) with Avangard (hypersonic)

A.
 

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Re: 9M730 Burevestnik (SSC-X-9 Skyfall) cruise niclear-powered missile

Sorry guys and girls,

This topic should be moved to Aerospace. It's not unbuilt, seemingly…

But the hypersonic propulsion statement of a catchy headline tricked me with Avangard, as already stated in my two-previously published and edited posts.

So I tried to change the topic / subject to "Supersonic", but I can't. (Just made it)

FWIW, a interesting video showing the Buresvestnik production line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuwMsJlM-pg

A.
 

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Re: 9M730 Burevestnik (SSC-X-9 Skyfall) cruise niclear-powered missile

That doesn't look like the front end of a supersonic missile. (My impression is that it's more of a super long range Kalibr.)
 

flateric

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Re: 9M730 Burevestnik (SSC-X-9 Skyfall) cruise niclear-powered missile

Burevestnik is not supersonic. Has zero ties to Kalibr.
 

flateric

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Re: 9M730 Burevestnik (SSC-X-9 Skyfall) cruise niclear-powered missile

antigravite said:
Staff Writers for Launchspace, "Russia's New Hypersonic Nuclear Weapon", 29 January 2019
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russias_New_Hypersonic_Nuclear_Weapon_999.html

… was a catchy misleading news "article" confusing the Buresvestnik (supersonic) with Avangard (hypersonic)

A.
Article clearly depicts Avangard, Poseidon and Burevestnik as different weapon systems, neither I see mention of Burevestnik there as 'supersonic'.
So I don't know why do you call article 'misleading'.
 
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