Shenyang FC-31 demonstrators / J-35 naval fighter / J-35A land-based version

SUPER=BUG said:
At present, there is some gossip, according to some more credible military fans, the J35 has been ejection-take-off and landing test on the Fujian ship. If this news is true, we may be able to see the official video in a few months.
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I mean, I want to see it, but I also know that developing the skills to operate planes off a carrier has one hell of a steep learning curve. They're going to lose a lot of people in the process. Ramp strikes, dudes sucked into intakes, dudes blown off the flight deck by jet wash, dudes dodging broken arrestor wires...
 
Scott Kenny said:
I mean, I want to see it, but I also know that developing the skills to operate planes off a carrier has one hell of a steep learning curve. They're going to lose a lot of people in the process. Ramp strikes, dudes sucked into intakes, dudes blown off the flight deck by jet wash, dudes dodging broken arrestor wires...
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The reason why J-35 taking off and landing from CV-18 is "notable" in a general historical sense is that if it had recently happened, it would be the first time a 5th gen aircraft was launched from a carrier at sea, from a EM catapult. (F-35C has yet to be launched from Ford afaik)

Everything else you described is just generic carrier aviation and deck handling stuff, which they've been doing with their two STOBAR carriers for the last decade, with substantial cross transferable skills to the CATOBAR CV-18.
By now they're well beyond developing the skills to operate planes off a carrier, and more about implementing the skills and knowledge in an effective warfighting strategy as new capabilities are rapidly introduced.
 
Blitzo said:
The reason why J-35 taking off and landing from CV-18 is "notable" in a general historical sense is that if it had recently happened, it would be the first time a 5th gen aircraft was launched from a carrier at sea, from a EM catapult. (F-35C has yet to be launched from Ford afaik)
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Ah, gotcha!


Blitzo said:
Everything else you described is just generic carrier aviation and deck handling stuff, which they've been doing with their two STOBAR carriers for the last decade, with substantial cross transferable skills to the CATOBAR CV-18.
By now they're well beyond developing the skills to operate planes off a carrier, and more about implementing the skills and knowledge in an effective warfighting strategy as new capabilities are rapidly introduced.
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Okay, so now maybe the E6-equivalents might have a clue how to not get people killed, and their O3/O4 bosses might have a clue. That still doesn't save them from people who haven't handled planes on ships being in charge and making stupid orders.

I'd expect the Chinese to get at least as competent as the French and British are at operating planes off carriers in about 20 more years, so that everyone all the way up has been handling planes on ships their entire career.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Ah, gotcha!



Okay, so now maybe the E6-equivalents might have a clue how to not get people killed, and their O3/O4 bosses might have a clue. That still doesn't save them from people who haven't handled planes on ships being in charge and making stupid orders.

I'd expect the Chinese to get at least as competent as the French and British are at operating planes off carriers in about 20 more years, so that everyone all the way up has been handling planes on ships their entire career.
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Oh they certainly wouldn't be at USN levels of carrier deck handling/ops proficiency, and there will be issues that are going to naturally emerge as part of operating their carriers under increasingly higher tempo and complex scenarios.

But I do think by now they would've gone through a few iterations of TTPs, and the steepest part of the learning curve should be behind them, considering where they started from.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Ah, gotcha!



Okay, so now maybe the E6-equivalents might have a clue how to not get people killed, and their O3/O4 bosses might have a clue. That still doesn't save them from people who haven't handled planes on ships being in charge and making stupid orders.

I'd expect the Chinese to get at least as competent as the French and British are at operating planes off carriers in about 20 more years, so that everyone all the way up has been handling planes on ships their entire career.
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Hahahaha, yes, there are still a lot of new things to learn from the Chinese aircraft carrier formation, but this is just the beginning, and it is good to achieve a breakthrough from zero to one every time. There is no need to think about the future of the Chinese army, we all know what has happened in the past 20 years. This year is an important year, and if possible, we may see a video of the Fujian ejection aircraft around September 3. At that time, something was needed to symbolize the development of the navy, and I personally thought it would be appropriate to release a video of the Fujian fleet flying fighter planes. Perhaps then the J35 Navy version will be announced for service.
 
alberchico said:
I wonder which foreign intelligence agency purchased secrets and how badly is this aircraft compromised ? If this story is true, it would be a huge black eye for Chinas's military. Any adversary that obtained the technical details the FC-31 would also be able to ascertain how stealthy and capable the J-20 would be.


www.globaltimes.cn

Researcher sentenced to death for selling state secrets after resignation: Ministry of State Security - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn
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The source is false news from Indian media.This case has nothing to do with fighter jets.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Okay, so now maybe the E6-equivalents might have a clue how to not get people killed, and their O3/O4 bosses might have a clue. That still doesn't save them from people who haven't handled planes on ships being in charge and making stupid orders.
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IIRC they from outset aimed at fast-paced promotion of carrier/aviation officers, based off US model. I am not on pay to go study PLA careers, but 12 years is enough to run through this cycle. They had both positive and negative examples before their faces, it didn't take much research to do the right choice.

Granted, it's too early for fully carrier aviation pilots to grow to command, but this isn't an absolute must requirement.
Decade isn't that short to anyhow dismiss chinese carrier branch - not anymore.
 
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Ainen said:
IIRC they from outset aimed at fast-paced promotion of carrier/aviation officers, based off US model. I am not on pay to go study PLA careers, but 12 years is enough to run through this cycle. They had both positive and negative examples before their faces, it didn't take much research to do the right choice.

Granted, it's too early for fully carrier aviation pilots to grow to command, but this isn't an absolute must requirement.
Decade isn't that short to anyhow dismiss chinese carrier branch - not anymore.
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12 years is still only the E6s and O3s/O4s.

It really requires E9s and O6+ that have flown planes off carriers for their entire careers. And that's ~20 years or so.
 
Scott Kenny said:
12 years is still only the E6s and O3s/O4s.

It really requires E9s and O6+ that have flown planes off carriers for their entire careers. And that's ~20 years or so.
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I assume requirement of normal progression and full careers from ground up isn't mission critical. Full career deck pilots are important as such(carrier pilots), but this isn't necessary for command personnel to have deep enough exposure.
Core requirement is having flag officers with personal experience of deck ops from different points of view. PLAN officers should have that by now, and a lot.

What they lack at this point is being shot (and hit, and sunk) on carriers - i.e. low level, but critical regulations and institutional knowledge. The kind that can only be obtained with blood.
 
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Any thoughts on the total production numbers for the J-35A Deino since it has entered production? Or will that come later.
 
NMaude said:
What naval ranks are these?
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Petty Officer 1st Class and Lieutenant/Lieutenant Commander.

So maybe the squadron commander or the Squadron Operations Officer, Maintenance Officer on the brass side, and not even the technical experts on the enlisted side (at least using US standards, I'm not sure which model the Chinese are using)
 
www.janes.com

Pakistan to start inducting FC-31 fighters

China is set to start supplying the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) with its Shenyang FC-31 ‘Gyrfalcon' multirole stealth fighter aircraft, a senior Pakistani government...
www.janes.com www.janes.com
"will begin arriving within months"

I wonder if that means this year. It does seem though that Pakistan will have their own J-35 just as China starts operating them. India will be left without any 5th gen to counter J-35 should they not act upon it, as we have discussed in the AMCA thread.
 
Maro.Kyo said:
www.janes.com

Pakistan to start inducting FC-31 fighters

China is set to start supplying the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) with its Shenyang FC-31 ‘Gyrfalcon' multirole stealth fighter aircraft, a senior Pakistani government...
www.janes.com www.janes.com
"will begin arriving within months"

I wonder if that means this year. It does seem though that Pakistan will have their own J-35 just as China starts operating them. India will be left without any 5th gen to counter J-35 should they not act upon it, as we have discussed in the AMCA thread.
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The same author wrote this. Has anyone ever seen an "unveiled" model of the "next generation JF-17 PFX"?
www.janes.com

Pakistan unveils JF-17 PFX fighter

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has publicly revealed for the first time a model of the next generation of its Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC)/Chengdu Aircraft...
www.janes.com www.janes.com
 
Obviously, on September 3 this year, military enthusiasts can take pictures of their favorite fighters, and there are many fighters that have been rehearsed recently.;)
 
Maro.Kyo said:
www.janes.com

Pakistan to start inducting FC-31 fighters

China is set to start supplying the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) with its Shenyang FC-31 ‘Gyrfalcon' multirole stealth fighter aircraft, a senior Pakistani government...
www.janes.com www.janes.com
"will begin arriving within months"

I wonder if that means this year. It does seem though that Pakistan will have their own J-35 just as China starts operating them. India will be left without any 5th gen to counter J-35 should they not act upon it, as we have discussed in the AMCA thread.
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Janes isn't what it once was imo.
 
Blitzo said:
Janes isn't what it once was imo.
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Like I already said so often! Jane's IMO is a shadow of its once former standard and lost a lot in recent years.

Well, my point is that Jane's was once and for long the golden standard on credibility for any military news and for me it was a great honour to be asked to write for them on Chinese military aviation news! In fact it was a great time and I learnt a lot on how to post short summarised news stories, I appreciated on how they always checked the sources, preferred to be careful in case it was not 100% confirmed or if there was at least a minor chance of being wrong, so it wasn't allowed to be posted until proven or at least terms like reportedly, allegedly or based on XXX had to be added.

Then there were some internal changes, my editor was fired and replaced by a new one who often changed my text, added always his name additional or even in place of mine on-top of the reports as if he had written them and when they even "has some internal issues" on payment for more than a year I left!

By then I was replaced my an Indian, who is now responsible for the China news section and since then I think I do not need to tell you more ... at least IMO Jane's totally lost its former glory!

As such I remain sceptical. ... but maybe they are just rating a delivery within months as 24-36 months are also "within months"?
 
Deino said:
Then there were some internal changes, my editor was fired and replaced by a new one who often changed my text, added always his name additional or even in place of mine on-top of the reports as if he had written them and when they even "has some internal issues" on payment for more than a year I left!

By then I was replaced my an Indian, who is now responsible for the China news section and since then I think I do not need to tell you more ... at least IMO Jane's totally lost its former glory!
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How did Jane's lose its way and can these changes be reversed?
 
Deino said:
Then there were some internal changes, my editor was fired and replaced by a new one who often changed my text, added always his name additional or even in place of mine on-top of the reports as if he had written them and when they even "has some internal issues" on payment for more than a year I left!
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Man this is sad.

Such kind of news do give unrealistic expectation and fueling more into jingoistic side of people.

NMaude said:
How did Jane's lose its way and can these changes be reversed?
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Better pay for writers or researchers maybe ?
 
NMaude said:
How did Jane's lose its way and can these changes be reversed?
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Actually off topic, but I don't know ... from my limited understanding the former owner was very strict and even special in its own way. Not sure if there was a change in management and even in its policy on what is rated credible or confirmed and what is not!

At least - but this again is a very personnel opinion - to install an Indian (and one not known to be specialised on that topic) as head for the China section is certainly an issue and I must admit I tried to get in contact with him after a first "strange" report, but my contact was accepted with great reluctance at best and questions or objections were not further addressed.

IMO there si simply NO interest at all!

On the funny side: When the first photos of the WZ-7 drone with serial numbers 21x7x surfaced, I wrote my article and ended with the statement that the 16th Special Mission Division, 48th Air Regiment at Shuangliao (then still as "most likely") was a new regiment to be confirmed. This was rejected on the grounds that this regiment didn't exist... My objection that the serial number would clearly confirm this was again rejected on the grounds that a unit not listed in Jane's database simply couldn't exist.

Well, this was, for me — now looking back — proof of the beginning of the end.
 
NMaude said:
How did Jane's lose its way and can these changes be reversed?
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Revenue loss was the primary reason. While Janes has a website it previously derived a lot of revenue from their publications and from their subscription data feeds they could provide. I've used the subscription feeds and they frankly weren't very good, the data was okay but the interfaces were clunky and outdated.
 
Ozair said:
Revenue loss was the primary reason. While Janes has a website it previously derived a lot of revenue from their publications and from their subscription data feeds they could provide. I've used the subscription feeds and they frankly weren't very good, the data was okay but the interfaces were clunky and outdated.
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If they value clicks over reliable, well sourced military reporting then just do what disreputable “military enthusiast channels” in China do — hire an attractive TikTok starlet with pronounced features to regurgitate weapon factoids from a teleprompter.
 
Besides the discussion on Jane's and maybe the PAF getting them "soon", this was totally omitted:

1. A J-35A allegedly at an AF-base (some say at Wuhu) and also two J-35 seen in late 2024 at Wuhu, and while some say, the 9th AB has received its first J-35A as the PLAAF's first operational unit (IMO still unlikely) other suggest these two could be the two Zhuhai-birds making a stop there.
J-35A allegedly first ones for PLAAF - 20250604 - 鼎盛大彪.jpg J-35A 2x at Wuhu - late 2024 allegedly.jpg

2. Two PLAN J-35 were also posted recently as well as for the first time two J-35 flying together with three J-15T (maybe preparing for the parade in September?)

J-35 2x naval - 鼎盛大彪.jpg J-35 2x + J-15T maybe first operational - 20250604 - 御风卸甲.jpg
 
totoro said:
well, this is supposedly Pakistani government x.com account.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1930903310384439604
View: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1930903310384439604


mentions 40 J35, KJ500 and HQ19 being purchased...

Can someone check if that X account is actually Pak Gov?
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really? they have quite a lot of AEW aircraft. about 9 or 10 Erieyes.
I think they had some Chinese AEW too but supposedly repurposed them for other roles

the J-35, I've always believed they would get, just a matter of when
 
40 J-35 export variants?
That's a huge order...

KJ-500 and HQ-19 are equally interesting... HQ-19 is an ABM similar to THAAD... KJ-500 would be notably better in capability as well to what they currently operate.
totoro said:
well, this is supposedly Pakistani government x.com account.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1930903310384439604
View: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1930903310384439604


mentions 40 J35, KJ500 and HQ19 being purchased...

Can someone check if that X account is actually Pak Gov?
Click to expand...
 
EmoBirb said:
Would there be any drawbacks with such an offer?
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The biggest drawback is that Pakistan would be undergoing the JF-17 saga all over again, getting a brand new aircraft that will likely have the kind of technical issues and gremlins that all new aircraft have when entering service, which will give their technicians many long sleepless nights. Not to mention the likelihood of having to undertake costly upgrades in the future as more advanced Block variants are put into service. They were wise to wait for the J-10C variant to become available before finally placing their order for that aircraft. But the tradeoff is that Pakistan becomes the first country in South Asia to get a stealth fighter jet.
 

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