S-IVB as reusable SSTO

[publiusr]

The Titan 'launch vehicles' were not standard Titans and had to be made on specifically designed (and rebuilt) lines and that was before costs went up when they stopped being operational missiles but that costs was still being 'hidden' by being "operational production models' which they weren't. Yes the Air Force used a lot of "accounting methods" to keep Titan "cheap" until they couldn't anymore and the price skyrocketed.

Saturn, especially Saturn 1 was from the start aimed at being as cheap as possible while being the most powerful booster possible for the US during the period.

I said the Air Force was against using Saturn 1 and used the cost and difficulty of having to put one there to defend using the Titan which had existing pads. It was just another argument aimed at making Titan "look" better.

I am so glad you spelled that out instead of me.

One question about museums…in Florida, why was a USAF Thor put in place of the Jupiter-C (more Redstone still) pad where Explorer I launched from

Was that the Air Force’s joke?

 

[Byeman]

I am so glad you spelled that out instead of me.

And you both are wrong. Saturn I wasn't cheap.

One question about museums…in Florida, why was a USAF Thor put in place of the Jupiter-C (more Redstone still) pad where Explorer I launched from

Was that the Air Force’s joke?

Because a Redstone was at the other pad

 

[Byeman]

Uh never said there was, I said the Air Force was against using Saturn 1 and used the cost and difficulty of having to put one there to defend using the Titan which had existing pads. It was just another argument aimed at making Titan "look" better as a deal. (There was some real worry about the USAF and NASA being forced due to budget cutting of having to go with one or the other. The Air Force wanted all the arguments they could get to NOT have to use Saturn. The Air Force remembered quite well being forced to go with the Titan rather than the new system of the Space Launching System they had really wanted for the space launch mission)

No. Titan didn't need to "look" better, it was better plain and simple.
Titan III did not use existing Titan pads at Vandenberg. They converted Atlas Agena pads for Titan IIB and then Titan IIID.
Air Force wasn't "forced" to go with Titan III.

again, this is about Saturn IB being used in the seventies for Viking, Voyager and Helios vs Titan IIIE

 

[Padamme]

I made my (very crude) calculation

payload 3500 kg in 200 km orbit
with replace J-2 (1588 kg) by a Aerospike Engine (3176 kg)
(Scott Lowther say once something about they heaver as normal engine)
[…]
but in some literature and Wiki claim that Aerospike engine
use 30% less fuel as a bell engine in lower atmosphere
[…]

About the aforementioned engine: an aerospike derivative of the J-2 named "J-2T" was built and test fired.
Since it was designed as a plug-in replacement for the older J-2 for the Apollo Applications Program, it uses the same plumbing interface as a regular J-2.
This is probably the aerospike that the SSTO S-IVB would have used.

 

[Archibald]

Mars-Voyager could have been Saturn IB Centaur "foot in the door" for robotic science exploration. But Saturn IB Centaur lost that robotic probe battle late1965; when Mariner 4 atmospheric analyzis proved Mars pressure was extremely low. And thus Mars-Voyager had to be redesigned and took so much weight, Saturn V became mandatory - dooming the program in Congress, summer 1967.

One question I often wonder is why, in 1967-68 (when Voyager was buried and early Viking studies happened), Saturn IB Centaur was not considered, even briefly - with Titan IIIE happening instead.

https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/sp-4212.pdf
Are we 100% sure Saturn IB Centaur was not briefly considered in Viking early, pre-history ?

 

[Byeman]

Mars-Voyager could have been Saturn IB Centaur "foot in the door" for robotic science exploration. But Saturn IB Centaur lost that robotic probe battle late1965; when Mariner 4 atmospheric analyzis proved Mars pressure was extremely low. And thus Mars-Voyager had to be redesigned and took so much weight, Saturn V became mandatory - dooming the program in Congress, summer 1967.

One question I often wonder is why, in 1967-68 (when Voyager was buried and early Viking studies happened), Saturn IB Centaur was not considered, even briefly - with Titan IIIE happening instead.

Are we 100% sure Saturn IB Centaur was not briefly considered in Viking early, pre-history ?

$? and con ops easier.

 

[Archibald]

A whole lot of Bono technical papers related to SSTOs.

 

[publiusr]

He lives on embodied by Stoke's reusable second stage.
https://www.stokespace.com/introducing-andromeda/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoke_Space_Nova

On cones
https://techxplore.com/news/2026-05-flight-angles-affect-turbulence.html

Sonny and U2's front man aren't fit to rock Phil's last name.
https://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/2025/06/rombus-reusable-orbital-module-booster.html