S-IVB as reusable SSTO

Michel Van

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Around end 1960's Douglas proposed
several projects for reuse of S-IVB Stage

the final Idea was a reusable S-IVB with Aerospike engine
to use as upperstage on Saturn launcher or as SSTO

got some one more info (like payload) on that proposal ?
thanks in advance
 

XP67_Moonbat

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Try Philip Bono and Kenneth Gatland's book FRONTIERS OF SPACE.

Moonbat
 

Michel Van

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XP67_Moonbat said:
Try Philip Bono and Kenneth Gatland's book FRONTIERS OF SPACE.

Moonbat

I have the German edition but there only picture, no information about preforms
 

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Michel, in my edition there is full chapter on SASSTO and SARRA (fourth, n my edition) with data. Moreover, there is a color comparison chart between SASSTO and two two-stage reusable winged launchers. SASSTo is given at a launc weight of 97,887 Kg, max thrust of 125,647 Kg, empty weight (w/o payload) 3995 Kg and a low-orbit payload of 2812-3617 Kg.
 

Michel Van

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yes SASSTO had to be final version of this SSTO study

but i looking for S-IVB version of that
challed "Phase D - Singel Stage to Orbit - Stabel Entry Body"

see the picture
simply the Tanks of S-IVB with Aerospike engine and landinggear
 

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Brickmuppet

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Yes that is indeed in Frontiers of Space, but it is the later edition (there were at least two). I had both before hurricane Isabel :mad: (stoopid Isabel)
There was IIRC not much more info than that on the craft itself, however it was presented as part of a multi step program that was intended to start with Apollo hardware and incrementally develop via trial and error a VTOVL launch capability of the sort that Bono advocated ultimately building up to the ROMBUS design he had proposed some years earlier. I think SASSTO was the last in the line that used direct developments of more or less existent hardware, later ones like Hyperion (a mountainside-sled launched vertilanding craft) Peagasus, Ithacus and ultimately ROMBUS itself would have relied heavily on lessons learned during the program and so their designs would have been somewhat fluid. ISTR an offhanded mention in the book that there was interest in using Salked's tripropellant scheme in some of the later designs.

Note that the crazy ass concept of build...test...learn...build better...test...learn...build even better...is the way technology generally develops successfully.
 

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Michel Van said:
yes SASSTO had to be final version of this SSTO study

but i looking for S-IVB version of that
challed "Phase D - Singel Stage to Orbit - Stabel Entry Body"

You've seen this, yes?
http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocspacesaturn.htm#spacedoc63
Advanced Saturn/Apollo Missions
http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/sdoc53ani.jpg
 

Michel Van

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Orionblamblam said:
You've seen this, yes?
http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocspacesaturn.htm#spacedoc63
Advanced Saturn/Apollo Missions
http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/sdoc53ani.jpg

i have buy them !
"Advanced Saturn/Apollo Missions" and "Saturn Mission Payload Versatility"
last one is Boeing study how to transform the S-IC in S-ID SSTO
sadly, both do not have a detail Information about this S-IVB SSTO :mad:
 

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While the search is on, let me advance a suggestion. SASSTO and SARRA were just two of the ideas explored at Douglas for advanced uses of derivatives of S-IVB. The one that more strictly adheres to the configuration you are searching is in my opinion the LASS concept (direct mode cargo lunar carrier). It used a normal or uprated bell exhaust J-2, but for the rest it was very similar. Look for LASS (Scott has a presentation by Donald Douglas on LASS on his site).
 

Michel Van

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LASS is show in "Advanced Saturn/Apollo Missions"
a direct landing S-IVB for AAP or Lunar Base build.
S-IVB with multy restart J-2S and 2x RL-10 engines for landing
nice idea: use S-IVB empty tanks as "Wet" moon Base

not close to phase D S-IVB SSTO :(
but i will take the STASSO data for Aerospike engine and return fuel
an made crude calculation payload in 100 n.m. orbit
 

Michel Van

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I made my (very crude) calculation

payload 3500 kg in 200 km orbit
with replace J-2 (1588 kg) by a Aerospike Engine (3176 kg)
(Scott Lowther say once something about they heaver as normal engine)
Plus
7483 kg on return system
(heatshield on S-IVB tanks, parachutes, Landing gear, and Fuel - about 37% empty mass)
2155 kg Instrument unit (Saturn IB-V)
105 kg payload faring
525 kg Payload holder

makes in total:
138268.45 kg lift off mass
but it got only a delta V of 7440 meter/sec
need in to 200 km orbit are 8036 meter/sec

but in some literature and Wiki claim that Aerospike engine
use 30% less fuel as a bell engine in lower atmosphere

recalculated that makes
a delta V of 9088 meter/sec

so in theory it works.
 

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