Douglas Cloudster II

Triton

Triton

Donald McKelvy
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What engines installed on the Cloudster II?

In Francillon. McDonnell Douglas Aircraft since 1920. Putnam
Two 250 hp Continental E-250 six-cylinder air-cooled engines

In aerofiles.com:
Two 250hp Continental W-670 in tandem

W-670 - radial, seven cylinder
E-250 - variant Continental O-470? Six-cylinder, horizontally opposed?
 
Good question lleu. An online copy of a 1977 article by R.E. Williams says that the Model 1015 was designed for 250 hp Continentals but that the Cloudster II prototype flew with 200 hp engines.

http://www.valleyflyers.club/ewExternalFiles/197708.pdf

I presume that this is a reprint of an article by Robert E. (Bob) Williams who created the 'Yesteryear...' series for the inhouse mag, Douglas Service. The Model 1015 was designed for the 250 hp E250 ... which were never installed. Instead, the Cloudster II prototype flew with 200 hp Continentals.

Those horsepower ratings are probably the source of confusion. Perhaps the Aerofiles writer simply looked for a Continental that matched the planned 250 hp power output and the W670/R-670 radial fit the bill?
 
From Le Fana 454.
 

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Here is a series of three photos captioned "Waco Experimental Model aircraft Howard Allor" and dated April 1946.
"Howard Allor" may have been the designer, but he could also have been only the photographer. (1)

To anyone familiar with the experimental types of that period, the likeness of the model with the Douglas Model 1015 Cloudster will be obvious. To such an extent, in fact, that one is tempted to wonder whether it really is a Waco model or a Douglas one... (continue reading underneath the photos)

1711587136809.png

If you take a look at the Cloudster II, of course, you'll notice it has squared-off tail fins, just like the XB-42 Mixmaster or the projected "DC-8" pusher.
But if you consider earlier Douglas projects such as the DS-312A (the unbuilt XP-48), you'll see that the tail looks almost exactly the same as the Waco model. In fact, by grafting the rounded tail of the DS-312A to the Model 1015 (minus the second propeller/engine), we would get an aircraft that looks almost exactly the same as the "Waco"!
Can we assume, therefore, that this is just a case of a mislabeled set of photos?
Probably... Let's keep in mind, though, that Waco produced their own commercial pusher in 1947, the Model W Aristocraft (although it was an A. F. Archer design, extremely different from the model above).

1711586946458.png

Original (uncropped) photos of the model HERE.

1. I've located one Howard Allor in that period, who lived in St. Clair, Mich. and was 25 at that time, but wasn't able to establish his profession. Another Howard Allor is more likely the right individual, since he appears in a Flickr album entitled "Aviation Related People" (photo HERE).
 
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Stargazer said:
Interesting. The photo caption said "Allor", and so did the NASM photo of him I found, which explains why I couldn't find him.

I provided the link at the bottom of the post. Sorry if it wasn't visible enough.
Click to expand...

I did miss it - cheers.
The picture is from the John Drennan collection. This actually also has a photo of Howard Ailor.
https://nyheritage.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16694coll109/id/20646/rec/1
Ailor / Allor is a pretty simple typo or misinterpretation.

John Drennan – Drennan (1906 – 1986) was a news reporter and commercial photographer. He worked at Roosevelt Field from 1927 – 1951, except during World War Two. He started out as an aviation photographer, based at Roosevelt, who supplied photos of the many notable aviators and happenings on the field to the New York newspapers and wire services. Thus he photographed many famous figures from the early years of American aviation history.
Click to expand...

Ailor was a Waco aircraft dealer in New York. He owned a company called "WACO Sales of New York" at one point. The magazine advertisment below is his invitation to the public to view the new line for 1933 at Roosevelt Field, LI, NY.
 
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So I'm thinking it is an early model of the Douglas Cloudster II which didn't fly until a year after the date of these model photos.

Perhaps John Drennan labelled them in error as WACO because they came from Howard Ailor, the WACO salesman guy. Maybe Mr Ailor was considering selling the Cloudster, with WACO in trouble and stopping new aircraft design, and that's why he had these model shots?
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
Maybe Mr Ailor was considering selling the Cloudster, with WACO in trouble and stopping new aircraft design, and that's why he had these model shots?
Click to expand...
I'm thinking more and more along the same lines, though I wonder if Douglas would have circulated, among potential buyers, some images of the design before it was frozen.
 
Stargazer said:
Here is a series of three photos captioned "Waco Experimental Model aircraft Howard Allor" and dated April 1946.
"Howard Allor" may have been the designer, but he could also have been only the photographer. (1)

To anyone familiar with the experimental types of that period, the likeness of the model with the Douglas Model 1015 Cloudster will be obvious. To such an extent, in fact, that one is tempted to wonder whether it really is a Waco model or a Douglas one... (continue reading underneath the photos)

View attachment 723802

If you take a look at the Cloudster II, of course, you'll notice it has squared-off tail fins, just like the XB-42 Mixmaster or the projected "DC-8" pusher.
But if you consider earlier Douglas projects such as the DS-312A (the unbuilt XP-48), you'll see that the tail looks almost exactly the same as the Waco model. In fact, by grafting the rounded tail of the DS-312A to the Model 1015 (minus the second propeller/engine), we would get an aircraft that looks almost exactly the same as the "Waco"!
Can we assume, therefore, that this is just a case of a mislabeled set of photos?
Probably... Let's keep in mind, though, that Waco produced their own commercial pusher in 1947, the Model W Aristocraft (although it was an A. F. Archer design, extremely different from the model above).

View attachment 723798

Original (uncropped) photos of the model HERE.

1. I've located one Howard Allor in that period, who lived in St. Clair, Mich. and was 25 at that time, but wasn't able to establish his profession. Another Howard Allor is more likely the right individual, since he appears in a Flickr album entitled "Aviation Related People" (photo HERE).
Click to expand...
The Aristocraft, as you said rather different

Capture d’écran 2024-03-28 à 10.21.54.png
 

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