Société des Avions Marcel Bloch (MB) designations

[Grey Havoc]

MB.120 was a colonial police transport high-wing monoplane,enlarge version of MB.110,powered by three 300 hp

Looks like it was so successful that they expanded the roles a bit:
https://elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com/2021/03/08/bloch-mb-120-sept-jours-de-joie/
I suspect that the growing procurement chaos in France at the time precluded more examples being bought.

 

[PhR]

Thanks for the link with the drawing of the MB 95 Hesham

But I don't think that the TU speaks about the MB 81. Because MB 95 is a derivative of the MB 81, and (as said in the TU's article ) MB 41 is a "derivative" (foreshadow) of the MB 95.
The MB 41 is described as a "cabine fermée" (enclosed cockpit) in the TU's article. The MB 81 don't get an enclosed cockpit.

So

MB 80 --> MB 81 (one open seat and one enclosed bunk) --> MB 95 (two open seats) --> MB41 (x enclosed seats)

I tried to find the origin of this strange designation MB-95. I was not able to find it. I think it is simply a legend. This designation does not seem to have been used by Marcel Bloch.
You can refer to Aéro Journal n° 59 June/July 2017 p.55.

 

[hesham]

I tried to find the origin of this strange designation MB-95. I was not able to find it. I think it is simply a legend. This designation does not seem to have been used by Marcel Bloch.
You can refer to Aéro Journal n° 59 June/July 2017 p.55.

I think not,here is a proof from TU magazine 171.

 

[PhR]

I think not,here is a proof from TU magazine 171.

Just a clarification: it's me who wrote this in TU magazine some years ago. From that time, I tried to look for the origin of this MB-95 designation, and finally concluded that it was probably a mistake, but I don't know from whom it comes.

 

[hesham]

Just a clarification: it's me who wrote this in TU magazine some years ago. From that time, I tried to look for the origin of this MB-95 designation, and finally concluded that it was probably a mistake, but I don't know from whom it comes.

A surprise,are you Charles Claveau ?,I find also this ?!,

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/dujin-da7279-bloch-mb81s-et-mb95--154656

 

[PhR]

A surprise,are you Charles Claveau ?,I find also this ?!,

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/dujin-da7279-bloch-mb81s-et-mb95--154656

No, I am Philippe Ricco. The text you have presented from TU magazine was a complement to Charle's chronicle about French manufacturers. I provided the photo to illustrate the 2-seater derivative from MB-81. More recently, I have published a history of MB-81 in Aéro Journal, with other photos showing this version modified in Syria.
I also provided some documents when Jean-Pierre Dujin designed this model. The plans were drawn by A.J. Roy.

 

[Deltafan]

No, I am Philippe Ricco. The text you have presented from TU magazine was a complement to Charle's chronicle about French manufacturers. I provided the photo to illustrate the 2-seater derivative from MB-81. More recently, I have published a history of MB-81 in Aéro Journal, with other photos showing this version modified in Syria.
I also provided some documents when Jean-Pierre Dujin designed this model. The plans were drawn by A.J. Roy.

I think the whole forum will be interested to know that we have another famous French aviation author among us (if you want)

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/introduce-yourself.12/page-28

 

[PhR]

Early designs

SEA-1
SEA-2 two-seat reconnaissance and fighter aircraft that did not fly
SEA-3 three-seat reconnaissance aircraft which did not fly
SEA-4
SEA-5

Hi all,
I have plenty of comments on this list. You will soon have more information about this manufacturer: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/les-avions-marcel-bloch.42831/

I just start by the first ones:
SEA I (with roman number) two-seat reconnaissance aircraft. One built.
SEA II two-seat reconnaissance and fighter aircraft that did not fly
SEA III three-seat reconnaissance aircraft which did not fly
SEA IV C2 two-seat fighter, derived from SEA II. More than 100 built.

And that's all!
Marcel Bloch left the SEA company in 1918 and did not participate to the next SEA developments. He sold its participation to his friends Henry Potez and Louis Coroller. They continued with SEA V and VI. In 1919, Potez created his own company and his first aircraft was the Potez VII, derived from SEA IV.

 

[PhR]

Société des Avions Marcel Bloch

MB 30 eight-seat twin-engined communications aircraft project (not built)
MB 301 became the MD.311
MB 303 became the MD.315
MB 304

I continue with some complements about the family of Flamant, premises of Dassault:
MB 30 covers 4 different projects
- MB 30-1 bombing and navigation school and training aircraft -> Became MB 301.
- MB 30-2 colonial police aircraft -> Became MB 302.
- MB 30-3 flight school and liaison aircraft -> Became MB 303.
- MB 30-4 mail transport aircraft. t -> Became MB 304.

MB 301 became MD 311.
MB 302 never built.
MB 303 became MD 303. 1 built.
MB 304 never built.
MB 305 civil transport. Never built.
MB 310 sanitary or 10-passenger transport. Never built
MB 311 colonial sanitary and transport with Mars engines. Never built.
MB 315 idem with Argus engines. Never built.
MB 316 8-passenger transport with Mars engines. Never built.
MB 317 idem with Argus engines. Never built.

 

[PhR]

MB 462

Never heard of it. Maybe a confusion with Breguet 462?

MB 690
MB 730
MB 900 became SO.90, under which designation it was built
MB 1030 also known as S.O.30, under which designation it was built

I apologize, but for me, these are all wrong. I never heard of MB 690 and 730. Maybe another confusion with Breguet.
SO 30 and SO 90 started directly under these designations. They were never Bloch 900 or 1030.

 

[Stargazer]

Never heard of it. Maybe a confusion with Breguet 462?

I apologize, but for me, these are all wrong. I never heard of MB 690 and 730. Maybe another confusion with Breguet.
SO 30 and SO 90 started directly under these designations. They were never Bloch 900 or 1030.

Interestingly, these are not listed in my personal Excel file. You are quoting from an old post of mine and more research has been done since then. It is unfortunate that the wrong list remains, so I'll remove it for the time being. Thanks!

 

[hesham]

MB.1030 was a low-wing twin engined light transport monoplane,later developed into SNCASO SO.30

You are right,sorry for this mistake,the MB.1030 was later became BA.30,which
led to Flamant.

TU 158.

 

[Stargazer]

You are right,sorry for this mistake,the MB.1030 was later became BA.30,which
led to Flamant.

TU 158.

There is a BIG difference between what you wrote "later became" and what the text actually says: "An aircraft designated MB-1030 is said to have been studied in 1939 at Bordeaux Aéronautique, but this author has no details about that study. The project may have been the same as the one designated BA-30, which was to later beget the twin-engine Flamant."

 

[hesham]

There is a BIG difference between what you wrote "later became" and what the text actually says: "An aircraft designated MB-1030 is said to have been studied in 1939 at Bordeaux Aéronautique, but this author has no details about that study. The project may have been the same as the one designated BA-30, which was to later beget the twin-engine Flamant."

Of course,but we can say it's very nearly the truth,because MB.1030 had been
developed during German occupation,and a big possibility they were the same,

https://airlegend.fr/en/type-aircraft/liaison-en/​

​

 

[PhR]

Not really sure. I did not find documents mentioning a MB 1030 project, but as we know the existence of MB 1020 and 1040 in 1940, we can reasonably suppose that a MB 1030 have been probably studied at the same time.
I also found mention of possible relation between MB 1020 and BA 20, but based on the documents I have consulted, it seems that BA 1020 and MB 20 are independent.
We know that there is no relationship between MB 1010 and MB 10. There is no evidence of any link between MB 1020 and MB 20. So I see no reason to confirm that any link may exist between a hypothetical MB 1030 and the MB 30, which led to Flamant family. Charles Claveau expressed a personal hypothesis some years ago in TU magazine. His objective was to ask if any reader had complementary information to provide, but take care to don't transform it in truth.

 

[hesham]

To be sensible in this designation,

Bloch MB 800 ----- Aka SNACSO SO.80
Bloch MB 900 ----- Aka SNACSO SO.90

that means,there was Bloch 900.

 

[PhR]

To be sensible in this designation,

Bloch MB 800 ----- Aka SNACSO SO.80
Bloch MB 900 ----- Aka SNACSO SO.90

that means,there was Bloch 900.

Bloch MB 800 ----- Aka SNCASO SO.80 -> yes, MB 800-P to be more precise (cf Fana de l'Aviation n° 333 August 1997)
Bloch MB 900 ----- Aka SNCASO SO.90 -> no, never ! It's a pure invention. (cf. Tu n° 245 May-June 2009)

 

[PhR]

From Ailes 1936,

here is a Bloch MB.260.

This is a typo for the Bloch 160.

 

[hesham]

This is a typo for the Bloch 160.

Maybe that right,but generally the designation MB.260 was really existed as I know.

 

[PhR]

Maybe that right,but generally the designation MB.260 was really existed as I know.

Marcel Besson? Maurice Brochet? Maybe. But not Marcel Bloch.

 

[PhR]

Hello,
my own list of aircraft projects and production from Marcel Bloch, as I established it for my book about this manufacturer:

Designations​	Year​	Category​	Nb	Engines​	Remarks​
Type V	1929	Long distance postal	1	Lorraine 18K 750 hp	Project
Type VI (6A)	1929	Postal	3	Salmson 9Ac 120 hp	Became MB 60
Type VI (6B)	1929	Postal	3	Lorraine 5Pe 120 hp	Became MB 61
Type VII	1929	T24	3	HS 500 hp	Wind tunnel
Type VIII	1930	Tourism amphibian	2	Renault 4-cyl. 90 hp	Wind tunnel
Type IX	1930	T30	4	HS 18Sb 1000 hp	Wind tunnel
Type X	1930	Tourism	1	Renault 95/100 hp	Wind tunnel
Type XI	1930	Transport	4	HS 18Sc 1000 hp	Wind tunnel
Type XII	1930	Amphibian single seat	1		Project
Type XV	1930	Colonial	3		Wind tunnel
Type XVI	1931	Heavy bomber	4		Wind tunnel
MB 16	1930	Colonial	1	Lorraine 9Na 300 hp	Project
Unknown	1930	Transport civil	3	1000 hp	Project
Unknown	1930	Transport seaplane	4	1000 hp	Project
BA 10	1944	Fighter	1	Piston engine or turbojet	Project
BA 20	1944	?	?		Project
BA 30	1944	Transport leger	2	Renault 6Q or Béarn 6D	Became MB 30
MB 30-1	1946	Bombing and navigation training	2	Renault 6Q or Béarn 6D	Former BA 30. Became MB 301
MB 30-2	1946	Colonial Police and security	2	Renault 6Q or Béarn 6D	Former BA 30. Became MB 302
MB 30-3	1946	Liaison and pilot school	2	Renault 6Q or Béarn 6D	Former BA 30. Became MB 303
MB 30-4	1946	Postal	2	Renault 6Q or Béarn 6D	Former BA 30. Became MB 304
MB 60	1929	Postal	3	Salmson 9Ac 120 hp	Former MB VI / 6A
MB 61	1929	Postal	3	Lorraine 5Pe 120 hp	Former MB VI / 6B, F-ALLO
MB 62	1932	ET-4	3	Lorraine 5Pe 120 hp	Project
MB 70	1932	T10	3	Lorraine 9Na 300 hp	Became MB 71-01
MB 71	1932	Col3	3	Lorraine 9Na 300 hp	Former MB 70. Became MB 120-01
MB 80	1931	Ambulance 1-seat	1	Lorraine 5Pe 120 hp, Then Salmson 9Nc 135 hp	Became MB 81-01
MB 81	1931	Ambulance 1-seat	1	Salmson 9Nd 175 hp	Series version of MB 80
MB 90	1932	Tourism 2-seat	1	De Havilland Gipsy III 120 hp or Renault 100 hp	c/n 01 became MB 93, c/n 1 became MB 91
MB 91	1932	Tourism 2-seat	1	Renault Bengali 120 hp	Former MB 90 c/n 1
MB 92	1933	Tourism 2-seat	1	Renault 4Pdi 120 hp	F-AMQT
MB 93	1933	Tourism 2-seat	1	De Havilland Gipsy Major I 120 hp	F-AMBO, former MB 90 c/n 01
MB 100	1933	Tourism 4-seat	1	Hispano Suiza 5Q 15 hp
MB 101	1933	Tourism 4-seat	1	Hispano Suiza 9Qa 25 hp	Abandoned
MB 110	1933	Colonial 4-seat	1	GR 7Kd Titan Major 350 hp	F-AKHJ
MB 120	1933	T10	3	Lorraine 9Na 300 hp	Former MB 70/71
MB 130 “Guynemer”	1933	BCR	2	GR 14Kirs-1/ Kjrs-1 760 hp
MB 131	1934	RB4 / RB5 / R4	2	GR 14N 10/11 870 hp	2 « head of series »
MB 132	1935	RB4	2	HS 14Ha 1000 hp	1 unachieved
MB 133	1935	RB4	2	GR 14N 10/11 870 hp	Modified as MB 131
MB 134	1937	B4 / AB4	2	GR 14P	Abandoned
MB 134	1938	B4	2	GR 14N 48/49 (or GR 14R3/4)	1 built. Abandoned
MB 135	1938	B4	4	GR 14M 4/5, then 14M 6/7	02 planned but not built
MB 136	1937	B4 / Hy	2	GR 14 P	Abandoned
MB 140	1939	B3	2	GR 14N or 14R or HS 12 Z	Former MB 163. Abandoned 6/40
MB 140	1934	Tourism 2-seat	1	Renault 4Pei 140 hp	Abandoned. Became MB 170
MB 141	1934	Tourism 2-seat	1	HS 5Q 150 hp
MB 150	1934	C1		GR 14Kfs 780 hp
MB 150M	1937	C1	1	GR 14N 07 810 hp, then GR 14N 01 810 hp, then GR 14N 21 875 hp, then GR 14N 11 810 hp	Former MB 150
MB 151	1938	C1	1	GR 14N 11 870 hp, then GR 14 N-35 810 hp
MB 152	1938	C1	1	GR 14N 25 870 hp or GR 14N 49 920 hp
MB 153	1938	C1	1	P&W R 1830 SC3G 1050 hp
MB 154	1938	C1	1	Wright R-1820	1 unachieved
MB 155	1938	C1	1	GR 14N 49 1050 hp
MB 156	1938	C1	1	GR 14R	Abandoned
MB 157 / SO 157	1939	C1	1	GR 14R 4 1700 hp
MB 160	1935	T20 colonial	4	HS 12Xirs 720 hp	2: F-AREO, 3: F-AREP
MB 161 / SO 161 / “Bordeaux”	1938	T33 / T44	4	G&R 14N.38/39
SE 161 “Languedoc”	1945		4	G&R 14 N44/45 or G&R 14N.54/55 or G&R 14N.68/69 or P&W R-1830 or SNECMA 14R.200
MB 162 Raid	1936	Race / expedition	4	HS 12X with compressor	Abandoned unachieved 8/1937
MB 162 / SO 162	1938	B5	4	GR 14N 48/49	+ 2 unachieved
MB 163	1939	B3	?		Became MB 140
MB 164 / MB 161E	1945	Maritime patrol	4	GR 14N	Abandoned
MB 165	1938	B5	4		Became MB 162
MB 170	1935	Tourism 1-seat or 2-seat	1	Renault 4Pei 140 hp	Former MB 140. Abandoned
MB 170	1937	T3	2		Became MB 171
MB 170	1936	AB2	2	GR 14N 6/7 970 hp	MB 170-01
MB 170A	1936	A3	2	GR 14N 6/7 or GR 14N 20/21	MB 170-02
MB 171	1936	C3	2	HS 14AA 1120 hp	Abandoned
MB 171	1937	T3	2		Abandoned
MB 171	1937	T6	2		Became MB 500
MB 172	1937		2	Wright?	Abandoned
MB 173	1937		2	18L 00 or 14P	Abandoned
MB 174	1938	A3	2	GR 14N 20/21 1030 hp, then GR 14N 24/25, then GR 14N 48/49 1040 hp
MB 174Z	1941		2	HS 12Z 17/18 1500 hp	Former MB 174 c/n 20
MB 175 / SO 175	1938	B3	2	GR 14N 48/49 1140 hp
MB 175A	1940	C2	2	GR 14N	Project attack version
MB 175B	1942	B3	2	HS 12Z 1150 hp	Project
MB 175B / SO 175B	1942	C2	2	HS 12Z 1150 hp	Project "Destroyer"
MB 175C	1942	A2 / A1	2	HS 12Z 1150 hp	Wind tunnel
MB 175T	1945	Torpedo bomber	2	GR 14N 66/67 1150 hp or GR 14N 70/71 1120 hp	Prototype: former MB 174 c/n 53
MB 175Y	1941		2	HS 12Y	Became MB 177
MB 176	1938	A3 / B3	2	P&W R-1830-SC3G 1050 hp, then P&W R-1830-S3C4G 1215 hp	Prototype A3
				R-1830 SCB3 1400 hp	Série B3
MB 177	1939		2	GR 14R 1500/1600 hp	Abandoned
MB 177 / SO 177	1941		2	HS 12Y 31 860 hp	Former MB 175Y
MB 178	1940		2	HS 12Y 31 with compressor or HS 12Z 1320 hp	Project
MB 178	1940		2	GR 14R 1620 hp	Captured?
MB 178	1940		2	P-engine (jet prop)	Project
MB 179	1940		2	GR 14N 48/49 1078 hp or 14R	Project pressurized
MB 190	1937	Tourism 2-seat	1	DH Gipsy XV 135 hp	Made of wood
MB 200	1932	BN4	2	GR 14Kdrs 760 hp	Prototype
			2	GR 14Kirs/jrs 870 hp	Series
MB 201	1933	BN4	2	HS 12Hbrs 650 hp
MB 202	1933	BN5	4	GR 7Kdrs 350 hp	Abandoned
MB 203	1935	BN4	2	Clerget 14F 01 500 hp	Former MB 201-02
MB 210	1934	Hy (seaplane)	2	GR 14Kirs/Kgrs 870 hp ?	Became MB 210 Hy
MB 210 Hy	1934	Hy (seaplane)	2	GR 14Kirs/Kgrs 870 hp, then 14N 00/01 950 hp	Former MB 210
MB 210 “Verdun”	1934	BN5	2	GR 14Kirs/Kjrs 800 hp, then 14 N-10/11 870 hp
MB 211 “Verdun”	1934	BN4	2	HS 12Ybrs 860 hp
MB 212	1936	BN4	2	HS 14Aa00/01 940 hp	MB 210 c/n 7 re-engined
MB 218	1936	B4 Hy	2	GR 14N 915 hp	Abandoned
MB 220	1935	T16	2	GR 14N 16/17
MB 221	1944	T16	2	Wright R-1820-97	MB 220 re-engined
MB 261	1942	Passenger transport	4	GR 14N	Abandoned
MB 300 “Pacifique”	1934	T30	3	GR 14Kfrs-1 900 hp, then GR 14N0 910 hp	F-AONB / F-AOUI + 1 unachieved
MB 301	1946	Bomber training	2	Béarn 6D 375 hp, then Renault 12S	Former MB 30-1. Became Dassault 311
MB 302	1946	Colonial police	2	Béarn 6D 375 hp	Former MB 30-2. Abandoned
MB 303	1946	Liaison and pilot school	2	Béarn 6D 375 hp	Former MB 30-3. Became Dassault 303
MB 304	1946	Postal	2	Béarn 6D 375 hp	Former MB 30-3. Abandoned
MB 305	1946	Passenger transport	2	Béarn 6D 375 hp	Abandoned
MB 310	1946	T10	2	Argus	Abandoned
MB 311	1946	Sanitaire colonial	2	Mars, Then Renault 12S	Abandoned
MB 315	1946	T10	2	Argus As 411, then Renault 12S 02 580 hp, then Snecma 12T 605 hp	Became Dassault 315
MB 316	1946	T8	2	Argus	Abandoned
MB 317	1946		2	Mars	Abandoned
MB 360	1945	T40 / T110	6	GR 18R 2200 hp	Project
MB 361	1945	T40	6	P&W 3500 hp	Project
MB 400	1936	T40	4	GR 14N 16/17 915 hp	1 unachieved
MB 480	1937	Combat scout seaplane	2	GR 14N 2/3 1060 hp
MB 500	1938	T3	2	Lorraine 9N « Algol » 300 hp	Former MB 171
MB 500	1945	Tourism 4-seat	2	Bloch 4B2 220 hp	Abandoned
MB 600	1937	Light defense / training aircraft	2	Renault 220 hp, then De Havilland Gipsy 210 hp	1 unachieved
MB 700	1937	C1 light	1	GR 14M 6
MB 720	1939	C1 naval	1	GR 14M	Wind tunnel
MB 800	1938	P3	2	Bloch 6B 1 180 hp
MB 800	1938	T3	2		Unachieved
SO 80 / MB 800P / SO 800 “Biarritz”	1940	Postal	2	Béarn 6D 410 hp	Former MB 800 T3
MB 810	1939		2		Wind tunnel
MB 820 / SO 820	1940	Postal	2	P&W R-1830, then Béarn 6D	Wind tunnel
SO 830	1941	T12	2		MB 175 civil transport variant
MB 1010	1940	C1	1	GR 14N 49 1020 hp	Wind tunnel
MB 1011	1940	C1	1	PW R-1830 S1A4G 1470 hp	Project
MB 1020 / BA 1020	1940	T20	2	GR 14N 43/44 1000 hp	1 unachieved.
MB 1020A	1944	T20	2	GR 14N 43/44 1000 hp	Project
MB 1020N	1944	T30	2	GR 14N	Project
MB 1020?	1944	Postal	2	GR 14R	Project with tricycle landing gear
MB 1020R	1944	T30	2	GR 14R	Project
MB 1040	1940	C2	1	PW R-1830 S1A4G 1470 hp	Project
MB 1050	1940	C2	2	PW	Project

 

[Stargazer]

Hello,
my own list of aircraft projects and production from Marcel Bloch, as I established it for my book about this manufacturer:

Thanks, Philippe!

Just so that it's clear: the column "Number" gives the number of engines, not the number of aircraft produced.

 

[PhR]

Thanks, Philippe!

Just so that it's clear: the column "Number" gives the number of engines, not the number of aircraft produced.

Yes, I confirm: it's the engine number.

 

[hesham]

Amazing work as usual my Philippe,

and can I ask you about BA.10 and MB.1050 ?,more Infos please,and thanks.

 

[Stargazer]

Hello,
my own list of aircraft projects and production from Marcel Bloch, as I established it for my book about this manufacturer:

Before dumping my own, very incomplete Bloch list, I made a quick comparison, and I've come up with a few questions/possible additions:

• Were there not two distinct MB.141 projects?
• An MB.550 project was mentioned in Le Trait d’Union #166
• An MB.800 B was wind-tunnel tested in Apr. 1939
• An MB 810 A was wind-tunnel tested in June 1939 (unclear if MB or SO, no detail known)
• An MB.900 project is said to have become the S.O.90, under which designation it was built
• An MB.1030 project is also known as the S.O.30 under which designation it was built
• Didn't the "Flamant" name also apply to the MB.303 prototype, or am I mistaken?

 

[PhR]

can I ask you about BA.10 and MB.1050 ?,more Infos please,and thanks.

I don't have a lot of details about these projects.
- The BA 10 was a single-seat fighter studied during the war and not well defined in 1944 when it was abandonned.
- The MB 1050 is a 2-seat fighter cited in 1940 in a production prevision for next years by the Air ministerium. No known details.

• Were there not two distinct MB.141 projects?
• An MB.550 project was mentioned in Le Trait d’Union #166
• An MB.800 B was wind-tunnel tested in Apr. 1939
• An MB 810 A was wind-tunnel tested in June 1939 (unclear if MB or SO, no detail known)
• An MB.900 project is said to have become the S.O.90, under which designation it was built
• An MB.1030 project is also known as the S.O.30 under which designation it was built
• Didn't the "Flamant" name also apply to the MB.303 prototype, or am I mistaken?

- MB 141: I know only one project.
- MB 550: this is a typo from Les Ailes and L'Intransigeant in May 1938 for the MB 500.
- MB 800B: no trace. In Toulouse wind tunnel inventory, there is only MB 800, 800F and 800P.
- MB 810A: yes, but in most Eiffel wind tunnel reports, they just added a letter at the end to indicate the modification in a position of a subpart presented in the same report, for example the position of the horizontal tail. I did not cited all these pseudo-variants, that were just used to identify the curves of the same model configuration.
- MB 900: this is definitely wrong. MB 900 probably never existed, and the SO 90 never previously bore any MB xxx designation.
- MB 1030: I never found any trace of such aircraft designation. Even if it ever existed, there is no link with SO 30.
- Flamant: maybe used later for MD 303, not for MB 303 during its 11 flights, before its designation changed from MB to MD for conveyance to CEV.

 

[Stargazer]

Thanks a lot, Philippe!

 

[hesham]

Many thanks to you my dear Philippe,

and about MB.1030,the TU magazine spoke about it ?,

 

[PhR]

and about MB.1030,the TU magazine spoke about it ?,

In TU magazine, Charles Claveau only expresses hypothesis and precises that he do not have any evidence.
The MB 1030 studied on wind tunnel in November 1939 is not an aircraft, it's just a wing profile for the Bloch 155.

 

[hesham]

Hello,
my own list of aircraft projects and production from Marcel Bloch, as I established it for my book about this manufacturer:

Can we consider those two projects as Type XVIII & XIV,specially they
were from the same period ?!.

 

[PhR]

Can we consider those two projects as Type XVIII & XIV,specially they
were from the same period ?!.

No.

If their designer, Marcel Riffard, or his boss, Marcel Bloch, had wanted to assign them a number, it would have been indicated on the plans. This is not the case. It's not up to us to decide for them.

Please do not invent false information, fake or legend based on nothing reliable.

 

[hesham]

Please do not invent false information, fake or legend based on nothing reliable.

I don't invent anything,I am just asking,that's not true accusing ?!.

 

[PhR]

I don't invent anything,I am just asking,that's not true accusing ?!.

By simply asking for no reason and without providing any information or evidence, creates a reference that will appear on search engines. This is a starting point for future legends with false interpretation.

Look at the example of LeO 48 recently discussed: just because an author used a descriptive term as a title for his article, other people, however serious, believed that it was a designation of the aircraft and it now appears in other publications and in your lists.

 

[hesham]

The questions are not to prove anything,because it could be wrong,and for LeO 48,Mr.
Charles Claveau is the source,not me.

 

[PhR]

for LeO 48,Mr. Charles Claveau is the source,not me.

Yes, I know. I asked him and he confirmed me that he took this from Liron's article and made this mistake that you have repeated without verification. I already explained to you that this is an error, but you still maintain this error in your list.

 

[PhR]

The questions are not to prove anything,because it could be wrong

Sure: it is wrong.

Why ask this question without any sources? There is no evidence to support this absurd idea. It provides no information for anyone and can only lead to misinterpretations. Why not imagine that its name was "Lemon" or MBMR-MCMXXXI for "Marcel Bloch Marcel Riffard 1931"?

 

[Archibald]

After hesitating a while, I've decided to separate the Bloch and Dassault designations, as several numbers duplicate each other and also because the name change of the company's founder also corresponds to a change of decade and a real change in design philosophy.

Another modification I made was to remove the dot between the MB prefix and the design number. Sources are not all consistent on that point, but Bloch aircraft types are more often refered to as "Bloch 174" or "MB 174", for instance, than "MB-174" or "MB.174".

I have tried to give some details as much as I could in a one line format. Some aircraft are still missing their description but I'm working on it... Any additions/corrections are most welcome!



Early designs

SEA-1
SEA-2 two-seat reconnaissance and fighter aircraft that did not fly
SEA-3 three-seat reconnaissance aircraft which did not fly
SEA-4
SEA-5

Société des Avions Marcel Bloch

MB 30 eight-seat twin-engined communications aircraft project (not built)
MB 60
MB 61
MB 70
MB 71
MB 80 all-metal low-wing monoplane (1 built)
MB 81 air ambulance developed from MB.80 prototype (20 built)
MB 90 private aircraft to compete in the 1932 international Challenge of aeroplanes (2 built)
MB 91 equipped with a Pobjoy Niagara of 120 HP engine; displayed with Renault engine; not flown (1 built)
MB 92 variant with twin rounded fins, metal propeller and a 120 hp Renault 4Pei engine (1 built)
MB 93 variant with single rounded fin and a 120 hp De Havilland Gipsy Major I engine (1 conversion from MB 90)
MB 100 single-engine high-wing monoplane
MB 110
MB 120 all-metal three-engine high-wing cantilever monoplane colonial transport; prototype re-worked from the MB.71 (10 built)
MB 130 all-metal, twin-engine, low-wing monoplane reconnaissance and tactical bomber with retractable landing gear (1 built)
MB 131 improved version of above (2 built)
MB 131R4 initial version with one central machine gun (13 or 14 built)
MB 131Ins dual control instructor version (5 built)
MB 131RB4 four-seat reconnaissance-bomber aircraft with internal bomb bay and revised equipment (100 or 121 built)
MB 133 prototype with redesigned tail (1 built)
MB 134 prototype with two 820 kW (1,100 hp) Hispano-Suiza L4 AA engines (1 built)
MB 135
MB 136
MB 140(1) single-seat, single-engine low-wing monoplane derived from the MB.80, with a 140 hp Renault 4 Pei engine
---MB 140(2) three-seater four-engine, sort of a "Super 175" type
MB 141 small civilian transport, a development of MB.140(1) with a 150 hp radial Hispano-Suiza 5Q engine
MB 150 low-wing, all-metal monoplane fighter aircraft with retractable landing gear and enclosed cockpit, unsuitable to mass production (1 built)
MB 151 redesigned model (1 built)
MB 151.C1 initial production version (144 built)
MB 152 redesigned model (1 built)
MB 152.C1 uprated version produced in parallel with MB.151.C1 (482 built)
MB 153 prototype with Pratt & Whitney R-1830 Twin Wasp engine (1 built)
MB 154 proposed version with Wright R-1820 Cyclone engine (not built)
MB 155 redesigned variant with slightly broader wing and revised aerodynamics (35 built)
MB 156 proposed version with Gnome-Rhône 14R engine (not built)
MB 157 prototype of advanced version, converted from the MB.152 and equipped with a 1,580hp Gnome-Rhône 14R engine (1 built)
MB 160 speedy twelve-passenger long-range civil transport (3 built)
MB 161 derivative of above developed as the SO.161/SE.161
MB 162 Raid, mailplane derivative of the MB.160 (not built, replaced by bomber variant)
MB 162 four-engine, long-range bomber developed from the MB.160 (1 built)
MB 162 Bn.5 canceled production model
---MB 163 development of MB.162 (not built)
MB 170(1) civilian transport version of first MB.140 project
MB 170(2) twin-engined reconnaissance aircraft / light bomber (2 built)
MB 171 proposed development of the MB.170
MB 172 proposed development of the MB.170
MB 173 proposed development of the MB.170
MB 174 one prototype and main production version (1+56 built)
MB 175 prototype of second production version (1 built)
MB 175B.3 dedicated bomber version with redesigned bomb bay (23+56 built); later developed as the SO.175
MB 175T post-war torpedo bomber version for the Aeronavale (80 built)
MB 176 version with Pratt & Whitney R-1830 radial engines (1 built)
MB 176B.3 production batch (5 built)
MB 177 single prototype, powered by two Hispano-Suiza 12Y-31 inline engines
MB 178 further development whose construction was halted by arrival of German forces
MB 179 high altitude project with Type 14R engines which prefigured the MB.140 project
MB 200 high-winged all-metal cantilever monoplane day/night bomber (3 built)
MB 200B.4 main production version (>208 built + 124 license-built in Czechoslovakia)
MB 201 version of MB.200 with two Hispano-Suiza engines, prototype only
MB 202 version of MB.200 with four Gnome-Rhône engines, prototype only
MB 203 version of MB.200 with two Clerget diesel engines, prototype only
MB 210 derivative of MB.200 with more deeply-set, cantilever wing and fixed undercarriage (1+298 built)
MB 211 Verdun, similar to MB.210 but with retractable undercarriage, two 641 kW (860 hp) Hispano-Suiza 12Y inline engines (1 built)
MB 212 former MB.211 re-engined with two 940 hp Hispano Suiza 14 Aa00/01 engines (1 conversion)
MB 218 projected floatplane derivative of MB-210, eight aircraft ordered then canceled (not built)
MB 220 all-metal low-wing cantilever twin-engine monoplane passenger transport (17 built)
MB 221 surviving examples modified post-war with Wright Cyclone R-1820-97 engines (at least 5 conversions)
MB 300 Pacifique twin-engined bomber and navigation trainer (1948)
MB 301 became the MD.311
MB 303 became the MD.315
MB 304
MB 462
MB 480 twin-engined torpedo-bomber/reconnaissance floatplane first flown June 1939 (2 built)
MB 500 (1) three-seat training aircraft first flown June 1938 (1 built)
MB 500 (2) twin-engined five-seat light commercial transport project; mock-up presented in 1946 (not built)
MB 690
MB 700 fighter aircraft developed with SNCASO; flown on 19 April 1940 (1 built)
MB 720 naval variant of MD.720
MB 730
MB 800 (1) three-seat light training aircraft, later developed into the SNCASO SO.80 and SO.90 (1 built)
MB 800 (2) transport design with 4 x RR Dart turboprops (1948-49)
MB 900 became SO.90, under which designation it was built
MB 1010 fighter project from 1939, also known as S.O.10 (not built)
MB 1011 development of the MB.1010, also known as S.O.11 (not built)
MB 1020 proposed commercial transport for 20 passengers; only a fuselage completed by June 1040; also known as S.O.20
MB 1020 R transport design with 2 x G&R 14R engines (1946)
MB 1030 also known as S.O.30, under which designation it was built
MB 1040 two-seat version of the MB.1010, also known as S.O.40 (not built)


Great links:
- http://www.dassault-aviation.com/
- http://www.aviafrance.com/constructeur.php?ID_CONSTRUCTEUR=213

Ok, so in that list, the 140 and 163 are wrong. For a start it was the same plane; which had a pair of 14R engines.

@PhR Do you agree ?

 

[PhR]

Ok, so in that list, the 140 and 163 are wrong. For a start it was the same plane; which had a pair of 14R engines.

@PhR Do you agree ?

For the Bloch 163 and 140, ok. For the rest of the list, I suggest to compare with mine in message #61, as well as discussion in #66.

 

[Stargazer]

Ok, so in that list, the 140 and 163 are wrong. For a start it was the same plane; which had a pair of 14R engines.

@PhR Do you agree ?

I wish forum members would stop quoting entire lists every time, because after someone edits their initial list to correct mistakes, the quoted versions remain and add confusion in Google and other search engines. It's so easy to just quote one sentence of it (the circled red arrow will take to the initial post whoever is interested in it).

 

[Archibald]

Typical. You try to help, you get annoyed by a pisse-vinaigre.