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Author Topic: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War  (Read 167892 times)

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2006, 03:53:49 pm »
I have found that the Western Press Mig-29 misidentification I posted here it its not an pure invention of Western analists. It seems that this "westen MiG-29 is based on early designs of the real work :P

Please compare this real MiG-29 design from 1972 to the Western concept (apart from the twin fin layout in the Western concept they look quite similar).
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 04:12:10 pm by overscan »

Offline Deino

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2006, 04:12:53 pm »
Hey; very nice !

Just found some additional Western MiG-29 "might-look-like" pictures ....

Cheers, Deino
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
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W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2006, 04:17:12 pm »
Deino's impression is based on the overhead satellite image. Top view is pretty accurate.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline Deino

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2006, 04:30:30 pm »
... and three more from Bill Sweetman's "The Presidio concise guide to Soviet Military Aircraft"/1981; ISBN: 0-89141-135-6

The later MiG-31 alias "Super-Foxbat", the MiG-29 and the Su-25 (similar to the colour frofile already shown) !

Deino
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 04:32:40 pm by Deino »
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2006, 01:08:10 pm »
The Pentagon explicitly denied reports in Janes and other publications that the Soviet Union is developing/flight testing 3 new projects:

a Tu-144 derived bomber
MiG-29, an air superiority fighter with capabilities between the MiG-25 and F-15
An A-10 equivalent

Air International Feb 1978

"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline frank

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2006, 01:58:35 pm »
     
      And the MiG-29 pretty much came thru as well as the A-10 equivalent. There never was a Tu-144 derived bomber tho, was there? Was it a standard Tu-144 seen in the wrong place at the wrong time or the Sukhoi T-4 or what?


The Pentagon explicitly denied reports in Janes and other publications that the Soviet Union is developing/flight testing 3 new projects:

a Tu-144 derived bomber
MiG-29, an air superiority fighter with capabilities between the MiG-25 and F-15
An A-10 equivalent

Air International Feb 1978



Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2006, 02:05:14 pm »
The Tupolev Tu-160 original configuration was heavily based on the Tu-144. Tupolev also tried to push various cruise missile carrier, recce, ecm, even interceptor versions of the Tu-144 through the 70s.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2006, 01:40:45 am »
It seems that in his presentation of the "Aviation week" Russian pseudo-Atomic plane, Matej used this page :
http://modelstories.free.fr/histokits/A-plane_P/page7.html
but he forgot to copy the other picture in that page which puts the whole affair in a totally different light. This is an editorial from the French magazine Aviation Magazine dated January 1st 1959 (hence the following week after Aviation Week article).
here is a rough translation :
" Fakes bringing gold :
we don't want to say the Russian A-plane does not exist. Our very own sources tell us that the Russian engineers put a big effort regarding this subject. But to swallow the super-bomber "discovered" by Aviation Week it needs a bold step.
We will therefore take this opportunity to reveal the politico-budgetary undertones of this question. Everyone will recall how , five years ago, Aviation Week did a big detailed article about the new Russian super-bombers Tu-200 and IL-38,(which never existed). This astonishing article was published just days before the Congress discussed the budget of the Strategic air Command which at the time was menaced by severe budget cuts. Thanks to this article and the said Soviet menace, the SAC budget became taboo.
Now , december 1958, aviation week reveals in exclusivity a Russian atomic bomber...
And we just have to reprint what our colleagues of "le Figaro" [a top political evening newspaper in France] said : by a remarkable coincidence , this affair happens when President Eisenhower has announced his will to reduce defense spendings and will today -december 2nd- review the military budgets in the National Security Council.... many interests are then to be discussed which would be served by the announcement of another "triumph" of the Soviets.
Mr Mac Elroy the Secretary of Defense is sceptical. He ought to be when seeing the drawing of the said A-plane which Aviation Week has largely distributed through many press agencies. The artist who drew it could at least have drawn a believable aircraft."

Now if Aviation Magazine did not believe in it , the model manufacturer Aurora did !


but whatever the model kit , this is very interesting in that it suggests the whole affair was not a question of misidentified "Bounder" but really a political scam using a fake aircraft to protect the "militaro-industrial complex" interests !!!

JCC

Offline frank

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2006, 10:14:47 am »

      ISTR reading in an issue of The Bulletin of the Russian Aviation Research Group of Air Britain some years ago a listing of misidentified a/c. I think the most prominent one was the MiG "Fearless", which I think was a twin engined version of the MiG-23, or maybe a VG version of the MiG-25, supposedly. I don't know if "Fearless" turned out to be "Fencer" or what, but it went away. The fact it was given a NATO code name was a big deal. Also listed were altered photos, but not shown, a number of types. One that comes to mind is an altered photo of the CF-105 Arrow, supposed to be a MiG of some sort. There was also reported a USSR 'copy' of the F-4 Phantom II. I know there were others, but these are the ones that come to mind.

Offline frank

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2006, 06:25:40 pm »

      Was that the one that looked like Tu-144 wings & tail with hardly any fuselage? I always wondered if there was a Tu-144 bomber variant. In an old Wings or Airpower magazine there's a a small drawing of a Tu-144 with shorter aft fuselage & conventional nose / windshield claimed to be an early Tu-160 proposal, but I've never seen it elsewhere that made it seem 'official'. I believe the issue was from arund 1990. I saw some mention somewhere that RAM-H was the Tu-144D, so maybe that was the Tu-144 bomber they thought.


The Tupolev Tu-160 original configuration was heavily based on the Tu-144. Tupolev also tried to push various cruise missile carrier, recce, ecm, even interceptor versions of the Tu-144 through the 70s.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2006, 04:29:15 pm »
Found the Fearless.

Its described as a "new variable geometry air superiority fighter developed by the Mikoyan bureau", undergoing flight testing, according to US sources.

T/W Ratio: 1.2:1
Gross weight: 40,000lb
2 x 24,000lb turbojets

Source:
Air Enthusiast December 1971
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2006, 03:55:01 am »
Service testing of a new single seat single engine fighter with double delta (a la Viggen) wing, closely resembling the "Faithless", intended as the MiG-21 successor.

Air International October 1974
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Offline Hood

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2006, 08:05:48 am »
I picked up this handy book in a charity book fair in the UK, 'Future Fighters and Combat Aircraft' by Bill Gunston Salamander Books 1984. (This book is almost as old as me!)

In it is loads of 1980s projects and some of the MiG-29 and Su-27.

Unfortunatley I haven't got a scanner  :-[ so I can't give you any pics. These following profiles were drawn specially from the latest data in 1984.

It has the An-124, here as the An-400 Condor. It looks a bit like the real aircraft but a bit fatter with a upward hingeing door like the Galaxy event hough the text ndicates such a door was unlikely.

The MiG-29 has the LERX with the intakes under them, they are similar to the F-15 intakes , the canopy is very large for all-round vision, twin fins mounted above the engines and ventral fins. Wingtip missiles are also shown.

The Su-27 is very similar and looks more like the early T-10 designs, boxy intakes are well back from the leading edge under the LERX. Outward canted twin fins are mounted above the engines and there are ventral fins, the parachute/radar housing between the engiens is also present. In all this design looks very neat, of note are conformal packs like FAST along the lower fuselage.

A DOD drawing of the Tu-160 was included but the Mil-28 Havoc was not illustrated.

This book also has tons of other projects many here will find very interesting. :)

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2006, 10:50:22 am »
Hi Hood,

I have this book and it's a very nice source for this kind of fake Soviet aircraft. I'll dig again on my archives in search of a An-400 profile you'll love.

By the moment two new additions from Revista de AeronŠutica Number 208 March 1958

1. Romboidal wing fighter

2. Professor Blagonrawow (can you confirm its existence Flateric?. I haven't heard that name ???). shown this drawing in a conference about Soviet existing projects on nuclear powered aircraft. The tilt-wing design is particulary amazing!

Enjoy folks :)


Offline elmayerle

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2006, 09:33:01 pm »
Service testing of a new single seat single engine fighter with double delta (a la Viggen) wing, closely resembling the "Faithless", intended as the MiG-21 successor.

Air International October 1974

Consdiering some of the Mikoyan OKB's studies, this one likely isn't that far off in describing a study, just nothing that metal was cut on.