• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

XFY-1 and XFV-1 competition

Bill Walker

Per Ardua ad Nauseum
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
482
Reaction score
0
Website
rwrwalker.ca
Justo Miranda said:
Why not gyro stabilized helo deck ?
That helps 3 of the six degrees of freedom the deck has. You are still left with three translational movements, all occuring at the same time.
 

Tailspin Turtle

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
688
Reaction score
7
Website
www.tommythomason.com
I had wondered what Lockheed was thinking, but particularly with respect to the extremely poor turnover angle. The Convair delta-wing configuration had an advantage from that standpoint as well as providing a high-angle-of-attack capability that allowed a more or less level-flight transition when converting back to propeller-borne flight. It turned out that Lockheed had thought about both. In the L-200 proposal, they suggested a special landing platform manned by an LSO to allow ship-based operation. (It's not clear in the illustration, but the landing platform was mounted on actuators that stabilized it so it stayed level in roll; the ship's pitching motion was to be accommodated by a net that would be pierced by the aft end of a tip tank.) The pilot was to fly through a vertical-flight autopilot on approach, coached by the LSO. Once in position over the landing platform, the pilot would chop the throttle on the LSO's call when the deck was reasonably quiescent. Shock-absorbing struts on the tips of the tail fins would engage a net on the landing platform so the airplane could not slide. Note that at this point the airplane had three tail fins, not four. With respect to the transition advantage, Lockheed claimed that it would be achieved through the use of an autopilot. (The Navy OS-122 allowed a maximum altitude gain of 500 feet when going from wing-borne to propeller-borne flight but Lockheed wasn't about to cede any advantage to Convair.)
 

Attachments

Bill Walker

Per Ardua ad Nauseum
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
482
Reaction score
0
Website
rwrwalker.ca
So, at the end of a max performance flight with a 1950s vintage gas turbine, sitting in a high power hover, waiting for the LSO to call "deck steady". :eek: Sounds a little tense to me.
 

Mark Nankivil

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
1,523
Reaction score
123
Greetings All -

From the cover of Western Aviation 26th Annual Directory, April 1954, artwork for the XFV-1. Being a magazine cover, it was pretty well scratched up but nice to see nonetheless.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

Attachments

circle-5

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
44
Cool illustration Mark! Here's another thread on the XFV-1.
 

Mark Nankivil

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
1,523
Reaction score
123
Thanks - put it there too.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

masher47

Yesterdays dreams...
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
PROJECT HUMMINGBIRD (USN/USAAC- 1946/7): This Project is mentioned in both the Steve Ginter books on the XFV and XFY, it is mentioned by Joseph Chambers in his numerous NASA Langley histories in the VTOL chapters and his book "Radical Wings & Wind Tunnels", and most recently it is referred to in Bill Rose's new book "Vertical Take-Off Fighter Aircraft". I don't have Mr. Rose's contact, but on talking to Mr. Ginter and Mr. Chambers neither has ever seen any original documentation on this project. I have looked in the Archives, checked with the Wright Patterson historians, as well as the Air Material Command historian, and have been unsuccessful. Any help would be appreciated.
 
W

Wingknut

Guest
Further to the prone-pilot Chana variant of the Convair XFY-1, sorry if this is old news but Robert E. Bradley’s ‘Convair Advanced Designs II - Secret Fighters, Advanced Aircraft, and Unique Concepts 1929-1973’ mentions a proposed two-man development of the prone Pogo which would have had two crew-nacelles, one on each wing-tip.
(Thumbnail below – the two-nacelles design is at the bottom. If the attached is too big, I will of course remove it post-haste.)
See sample pages from Bradley's book here:
http://web.ipmsusa3.org/content/convair-advanced-designs-ii-secret-fighters-advanced-aircraft-and-unique-concepts-1929-1973
Thanks, ‘Wingknut’
 

Attachments

Steve Pace

Aviation History Writer
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
2,269
Reaction score
5
Did Walter H. "Walt" Barling - father of the Barling Bomber, beat Convair (XFY-1) and Lockheed (XFV-1) to the punch with the creation of a VTOL airplane design in 1940? -SP
 

Attachments

cluttonfred

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
1,323
Reaction score
12
Website
cluttonfred.info
Neat stuff, but what a terrible idea. What would the forces have been like on a pilot in quick roll in combat?
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,764
Reaction score
805
Nice find my dear Wingknut.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,243
Reaction score
75
Steve Pace said:
Did Walter H. "Walt" Barling - father of the Barling Bomber, beat Convair (XFY-1) and Lockheed (XFV-1) to the punch with the creation of a VTOL airplane design in 1940? -SP
That was some nice find! Wish I could have thanked Steve for it. Indeed, Mr. Barling seems to have been ahead of his time on quite a few occasions—not always with ideas that ended up working, unfortunately... (only his Nicholas-Beazley NB-3 reached some degree of success, being produced in quantity; the NB-4 was also produced but didn't fare nearly as well)
 

NUSNA_Moebius

I really should change my personal text
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
120
Reaction score
6
Is there any confirmed data on the max speeds attained for either aircraft? The XFV-1 was obviously hampered by it's landing gear rigging, so I'm particularly more interested in what the Pogo achieved.

I just feel like it should own the prop world speed record with it's kind of power to weight ratio, though I can see the induced drag of the delta wing and the parasitic drag of the fins and tall cockpit being an issue there. Also I think only the Soviets were pushing the very high blade angle of attacks necessary for achieving the very high speeds attained by the Tu-95 and Tu-114. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

RAP

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
615
Reaction score
168
Lockheed VTO parachute.
 

Attachments

Tailspin Turtle

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
688
Reaction score
7
Website
www.tommythomason.com
As I recall, the landing transition to vertical flight was a problem also. Even with perfect ergonomics, landings required a pullup maneuver that put the aircraft at a considerable altitude that required a long, fuel-consuming descent. I'd guess that the Pogo would have to descend fairly slowly to avoid putting it's highly loaded airscrew into the "swirl-mode" that's claimed at least one V-22.
One advantage of the delta wing on the FY-1 was that it not only could reach a fairly high angle of attack, it generated a lot of drag as angle of attack increased. As a result, a zoom climb was not necessary to kill speed and bring it to a vertical attitude.
 
Top