• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

XFY-1 and XFV-1 competition

devi

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
118
Reaction score
4
I where read that (precisely I do not remember), that in competition participated ten firms:

1) Convair Model 5--------------XFY-1
2) Lockheed Model 081-40-01---------XFV-1
3) Goodyear Model GA-? (or ?)
4) Martin Model 262
5) Northrop Model 63A
6) ? Model ?
7) ? Model ?
8) ? Model ?
9) ? Model ?
10) ? Model ?
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,064
Reaction score
3,745
I think Temco model-39 submit to this competition.
 

devi

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
118
Reaction score
4
Hi hesham.
Show us please 3-view drawings, figure and characteristics of Temco Model 39
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,064
Reaction score
3,745
Hi Devi,

you can find it and anther design for Northamerican in this topic

US VSTOL projects (page 6).
 

devi

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
118
Reaction score
4
Hi hesham.
I think, that Temco Model 39 did not participate in this competition because had no the turbo-propeller engine.
 

devi

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
118
Reaction score
4
Hi Skybolt.

I too so think, it should be Grumman Model 92 (If it participated in competition)
 

devi

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
118
Reaction score
4
Friends

"among the dozen projects subjected by industry, those of Convair and Lockheed were kept by BuAer as the most promising."

I have taken this information from the French site.

What can you tell in this occasion?
 

Tailspin Turtle

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
697
Reaction score
84
Website
www.tommythomason.com
Note that variable attitude gun pods are implied...
 

Attachments

  • XFY Spec-01L.jpg
    XFY Spec-01L.jpg
    694.8 KB · Views: 957
  • XFY Spec-02LR.jpg
    XFY Spec-02LR.jpg
    641.2 KB · Views: 804
  • XFY Spec-03LR.jpg
    XFY Spec-03LR.jpg
    592 KB · Views: 713
  • XFY Spec-04LR.jpg
    XFY Spec-04LR.jpg
    672.8 KB · Views: 659
  • XFY Spec-05LR.jpg
    XFY Spec-05LR.jpg
    707.3 KB · Views: 642
  • XFY Spec-06LR.jpg
    XFY Spec-06LR.jpg
    633.6 KB · Views: 188

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,577
Reaction score
3,871
I've always wondered why this concept got to the stage of prototype hardware when it seems, on the face of it, rather a non-starter.
 

Tailspin Turtle

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
697
Reaction score
84
Website
www.tommythomason.com
To go along with XFY-1...
 

Attachments

  • XFV 3 view later LR.jpg
    XFV 3 view later LR.jpg
    370.6 KB · Views: 195
  • XFV 3 View early LR.jpg
    XFV 3 View early LR.jpg
    373.2 KB · Views: 177
  • XFV Spec-28LR.jpg
    XFV Spec-28LR.jpg
    441.6 KB · Views: 95
  • XFV Spec-27LR.jpg
    XFV Spec-27LR.jpg
    380.4 KB · Views: 84
  • XFV Spec-26LR.jpg
    XFV Spec-26LR.jpg
    376.1 KB · Views: 85
  • XFV Spec-25LR.jpg
    XFV Spec-25LR.jpg
    387.7 KB · Views: 91
  • XFV Spec-24LR.jpg
    XFV Spec-24LR.jpg
    371.8 KB · Views: 108

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,490
Reaction score
2,777
Hi! I used to saw surprising XFY-1 flying,take off/landing Youtube video in this forum. Any one know where? Is that real movie?
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,085
Reaction score
982
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4pHRZxgus0
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,490
Reaction score
2,777
Flateric! Many thanks again. We really enjoy these videos. Very dangerous plane.
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,085
Reaction score
982
...and I'm enjoying Tailspin Turtle postings!
 

OM

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
752
Reaction score
12
Website
www.io.com
...The 1950's produced a lot of aviation weirdness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ1D_eiHafY&feature=related

...But that's what made that era so much fun to study ;D
 

OM

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
752
Reaction score
12
Website
www.io.com
Triton said:
Moderator,

This a duplicate video attachment and duplicate topic to:

<BIG FAT SNIP FROM HELL>

...Merge the threads if he wishes, but be advised that when I ran the search beforehand, *nothing* turned up after the page sat there churning for about two minutes.

[shakes head in mild dismay]
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,577
Reaction score
3,871
I'd be interested in any other reports of similar issues, its never taken me more than a couple of seconds for a search. Topic merged.
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,227
Reaction score
467
An aircraft proposal designated Goodyear GA-28A/B appears in the Spangenberg Index at the very same time and in the same box as the Martin 262 (November 1950).
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,227
Reaction score
467
Confirmed. The Goodyear GA-28A is variously described as a "research and transition trainer" and a "transition training and research aircraft", while GA-28B is simply described as a "convoy fighter".
 

OM

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
752
Reaction score
12
Website
www.io.com
...Found another clip of the XFY-1. This one's from Langley of a 0.13 scale model, with one of the wildest paint jobs I've seen. Which, considering how, er, "dull" some of those paint jobs models from Langley could sport at times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAAU8JUFt1E
 
W

Wingknut

Guest
I love the Pogo but particularly the Chana gun-pod variant. A quote from Chana about the prone-pilot Pogo:

"Skeets and I put a chair on the hangar floor at the tip of the Pogo's vertical tail," Chana recalls, "and I stood on the chair and just envisioned possibly flying it from that position." Chana saw that a vertical landing with the pilot in what would then be a standing position would be a lot easier than the neck-wrenching dentist-chair job Coleman had until then been doing. "I presented the idea to Convair, but it was too late in the Pogo's development to consider it," Chana says.

Source: 'The Convair XFY-1 Pogo' by Stephan Wilkinson, http://www.456fis.org/CONVAIR_XFY-1_POGO.htm
 

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,719
Reaction score
562
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
From Code One magazine:

After World War II, both the US military studied the feasibility of vertical take off and landing, or VTOL, aircraft. In 1951, the Navy awarded Lockheed and Convair contracts to develop research prototypes that could lead to combat aircraft. The lone Lockheed XFV-1, often called 'Pogo Stick,' was flown thirty-two times in conventional mode. Although pilots did maneuver the aircraft at altitude in vertical mode, an under-performing engine prevented any vertical takeoffs or landings.

Source: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/gallery_slideshow.html?item_id=19
 

Attachments

  • 2010_07_01_Spotlight_XFV_1_1267828237_6456.jpg
    2010_07_01_Spotlight_XFV_1_1267828237_6456.jpg
    255.3 KB · Views: 389

bercr

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
176
Reaction score
51
XFV-1 at Edwards Hi-Res photos here (perhaps scanned by Tommy ??)

http://www.alternatewars.com/Archives/XFV-1/XFV-1.htm
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,227
Reaction score
467
Came across this interesting piece of data in an old issue of Naval Aviation News:
 

Attachments

  • NADC.gif
    NADC.gif
    27.5 KB · Views: 694

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,719
Reaction score
562
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
Testing of the Convair XFY Pogo at Lindbergh Field, San Diego. Circa 1955. From the archives of the San Diego Air and Space Museum http://www.sandiegoairandspace.org/research/

http://youtu.be/KtC49ysX_b8
 

LowObservable

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,209
Reaction score
143
Thanks, Triton.

Two things strike me, watching that.

I don't believe that the XFY-1 had any control effectors other than the throttle and the elevons and rudder, operating in the propeller slipstream.

And the moment you took off, there were only two ways of reaching the ground - vertical landing and ejection.
 

cluttonfred

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
1,389
Reaction score
105
Website
cluttonfred.info
I have a different take. It strikes me that there was nothing wrong with the Pogo from purely aerodynamic or mechanical view, it was really an issue of ergonomics, how to provide the pilot with the controls, displays and views to operate safely in both horizontal and vertical modes. One could easily imagine a 21st century version with fly-by-wire controls, just flip a switch to convert from vertical to horizontal and change modes on the controls. A Pogo with a large-screen, multi-function display and a high-resolution, wide-angle day/night camera in the belly would likely provide for much less hairy landings than looking backwards while sitting at a 45-degree angle!
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,227
Reaction score
467
Mole said:
I have a different take. It strikes me that there was nothing wrong with the Pogo from purely aerodynamic or mechanical view, it was really an issue of ergonomics, how to provide the pilot with the controls, displays and views to operate safely in both horizontal and vertical modes. One could easily imagine a 21st century version with fly-by-wire controls, just flip a switch to convert from vertical to horizontal and change modes on the controls. A Pogo with a large-screen, multi-function display and a high-resolution, wide-angle day/night camera in the belly would likely provide for much less hairy landings than looking backwards while sitting at a 45-degree angle!

Something along the lines of the Puffin, maybe?!?

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/technology/features/puffin.html
 

taildragger

You can count on me - I won a contest
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
312
Reaction score
181
Mole said:
I have a different take. It strikes me that there was nothing wrong with the Pogo from purely aerodynamic or mechanical view, it was really an issue of ergonomics, how to provide the pilot with the controls, displays and views to operate safely in both horizontal and vertical modes. One could easily imagine a 21st century version with fly-by-wire controls, just flip a switch to convert from vertical to horizontal and change modes on the controls. A Pogo with a large-screen, multi-function display and a high-resolution, wide-angle day/night camera in the belly would likely provide for much less hairy landings than looking backwards while sitting at a 45-degree angle!

As I recall, the landing transition to vertical flight was a problem also. Even with perfect ergonomics, landings required a pullup maneuver that put the aircraft at a considerable altitude that required a long, fuel-consuming descent. I'd guess that the Pogo would have to descend fairly slowly to avoid putting it's highly loaded airscrew into the "swirl-mode" that's claimed at least one V-22.
 

Bill Walker

Per Ardua ad Nauseum
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
482
Reaction score
10
Website
rwrwalker.ca
I seem to recall that one of the reasons the VTOL fighter program was cancelled was the difficulty in performing the vertical landing on the small escort ships the aircraft was intended for, in rough seas. I'm not sure that modern fly-by-wire solutions would make this any better. The Canadian military and at least one contractor did a lot of theoretical research in the 1980s into landing helicopters onto small ships using autopilots driven by sensors picking up targets on the bouncing ship, and decided that a human in the loop, plus Beartrap, was still the best way to go.
 

AeroFranz

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,283
Reaction score
172
Amen to that. Thirty years later it's still damn hard to design Rotary-wing UAVs capable of landing on a helo deck in sea state 5.
 
Top