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Various Focke-Wulf projects

newsdeskdan

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sgeorges4 said:
was the flitzer actualy proposed for the volksjäger?
Yes, although it was apparently submitted too late to be given serious consideration.
 

newsdeskdan

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sgeorges4 said:
that was the bmw 003 variant?
You've not seen the contemporary drawing which shows the Focke-Wulf Volksflugzeug next to the Einheits-T-L-Jaeger? I'm sure I posted a version of it somewhere hereabouts which shows that the Peterle was also included. If not, yes, Focke-Wulf offered three designs for Volksjaeger - the conventional layout Volksflugzeug either with swept wings or straight and a BMW 003, the Flitzer with BMW 003 (upgradable to the 011 in the future without major fuselage changes, which was the Einheits-T-L-Jaeger), and the PTL-powered Peterle. It was all in vain though, because the Heinkel P 1073 had been chosen as the winner even before the competition got started, much to the annoyance of Richard Vogt, since all reasonably impartial observers thought that his Blohm & Voss P 211 design was better.
 

sgeorges4

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heinkel lobbying and from what Vogt say,they didn't seem to have look to the Siebel and project(sorry for my english,still french).
 

hesham

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Hi,

the FW P.0310239-01,P.0310239-02 & P.0310239-10,is that right ?.

 

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newsdeskdan

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Hi,

the FW P.0310239-01,P.0310239-02 & P.0310239-10,is that right ?.


No - I'm sure we've covered this elsewhere. Those are Focke-Wulf drawing numbers. There is no 'P' in front of them.

Scan_0840.jpg



And there were only two designs studied - tailless and conventional layout. These had drawing numbers 0310 239-10 and 0310 239-01 respectively. The following (see below) is just an early sketch for the conventional layout design - not a third design in its own right.
This sketch appears at the end of a large file of notes on the two designs and whoever first 'discovered' it presumably didn't bother to actually read this file itself. If they had, they would have realised the file was microfilmed in reverse chronological order - so the newest papers appear at the beginning and oldest papers appear at the end. So this was one of the oldest pages - but the 'discoverer' thought it was the last and newest, and arbitrarily decided it should be the '1000 x 1000 x 1000 C'. Interesting that you've found someone who's gone to the trouble of making up a drawing number for it.

Scan_0746.jpg


Here is the first page of the report that the tidied up versions of the two designs appear in:

Scan_0821.jpg


And here is Focke-Wulf Oberingenieur Herbert Wolff's first draft of the first page of the report:

First draft 1.jpg
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Dan,

and I speak generally,do you think there was a series between 0310 239-01 and 0310 239-10 ?,I mean from
-02 to -09 !,but still unknown ?.
 

newsdeskdan

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Thank you my dear Dan,

and I speak generally,do you think there was a series between 0310 239-01 and 0310 239-10 ?,I mean from
-02 to -09 !,but still unknown ?.
There is no evidence of any further designs. All the notes and calculations, over a period of several months, refer to just the tailless and conventional layouts. It's not impossible that there were other drawings in the sequence but my feeling is that the numbers are done that way to avoid appearing to give one design prominence over the other - if one had been '-01' and the other '-02' you might think that less importance had been attached to '-02' during the study. The issue of conventional v tailless layout was very contentious at the time.
 

Basil

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Dan, thx for posting this highly interesting original documents. Especially it is worth pointing out that Herbert Wolff describes the need for area ruling the fuselage (Einziehung des Rumpfes an der Flügelwurzel - tapering the fuselage at the wingroot). Besides Hertel at Junkers this is one of the first mentioning of area ruling before its reinvention in the early 1950s.
 

Basil

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Dan,
in # 222, 224 and 225 you mention unpublished Fw nightfighter and zerstoerer projects. Any chance of seeing them published in one of your booklet series or anywhere else?
 

athpilot

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Funny how a document from the Air Department in Wright Field found its way into a german archive... I discovered it by doing some research on completly other topics. The document must be from 1941/42. Here is the Focke-Wulf Fernkampfflugzeug with 4 BMW-803 engines. Could the big load in the bombbay be the proposed version of the german 5t-bomb?
 

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newsdeskdan

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Funny how a document from the Air Department in Wright Field found its way into a german archive... I discovered it by doing some research on completly other topics. The document must be from 1941/42. Here is the Focke-Wulf Fernkampfflugzeug with 4 BMW-803 engines. Could the big load in the bombbay be the proposed version of the german 5t-bomb?
Nice find! Are there any more sheets than that? There appear to have been two versions of Baubeschreibung Nr. 238 and you have bits from both of them there. The first sheet is from the version concerning an aircraft with four BMW 803s whereas the second sheet is from the version about a bomber with four BMW 801s. I have the full version of the latter, the full title of which is Fernkampfflugzeug "H" mit 4 x BMW 801 - Motoren. It's dated April 29, 1941, and the three-view drawing shows a very similar looking aircraft but with a slightly different cockpit arrangement.
 

newsdeskdan

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Here's the aircraft that appears in Baubeschreibung Nr. 238 Fernkampfflugzeug "H" mit 4 x BMW 801 - Motoren of April 9, 1941 (brighter white drawings), set against athpilot's Baubeschreibung Nr. 238 Fernkampf-Flugzeug mit 4 x BMW 803 Motoren of September 1, 1941. Differences (aside from the engine change) from the former to the latter would appear to include taller undercarriage, repositioned turrets, repositioned wings and smaller fins.


BB Nr 238.jpg
 

richard

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Thank you : I had never seen a picture of the "H" before ...Please , could you show us the 3-views ?

BTW , I think , the athpilot post showed only the 1/9/1941 No238 ...
 

newsdeskdan

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Thank you : I had never seen a picture of the "H" before ...Please , could you show us the 3-views ?

BTW , I think , the athpilot post showed only the 1/9/1941 No238 ...
Athpilot's second image, FW_02, shows the opening page from the 801-powered "H" version of No. 238. I'll publish the full three-view of the "H" in the reworked version of my Luftwaffe: Secret Bombers bookazine, due out early next year (and try and get the images a bit bigger too!). Like the September '41 design, the "H" also has a detailed side view showing the cockpit arrangement. There are some other drawings showing the undercarriage retraction process as well.
 
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