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Various Focke-Wulf projects

newsdeskdan

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Incidentally, straying a little off the point here ('Various Focke-Wulf projects'), you were wondering what BMW called its turbosuperchargers. Well, apparently the one in question was known simply as the 'Abgasturbolader 801 J'. So the P 8035 was a BMW 801 E mated to an 801 J turbosupercharger. I have numerous reports on the BMW 801 J and it never seems to be called anything else.

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hesham

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does anyone know those FW Projects,G.25 & A.34 ?.
Still Mysteries with Fw.62 ?.

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hesham

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From, Aerei Nella Storia 55,

the first time to hear about FW.189G ?.
 

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Arjen

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From Warplanes of the Second World War - Bombers and Reconnaissance Aircraft - Volume Nine by William Green, Macdonald 1967:
A more radically modified development, the Fw 189G with 950 h.p. Argus As 402 engines and a number of structural changes, was planned for production in 1942, but in the event the As 402 engine failed to attain production status, necessitating the abandoning of this project.
Much as it says in your text from Aerei Nella Storia 55.
Kurt Tank - Konstrukteur und Testpilot bei Focke-Wulf by Wolfgang Wagner, Bernard & Graefe 1991 has a similar entry. No drawings in either book.
 

newsdeskdan

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From Warplanes of the Second World War - Bombers and Reconnaissance Aircraft - Volume Nine by William Green, Macdonald 1967:
A more radically modified development, the Fw 189G with 950 h.p. Argus As 402 engines and a number of structural changes, was planned for production in 1942, but in the event the As 402 engine failed to attain production status, necessitating the abandoning of this project.
Much as it says in your text from Aerei Nella Storia 55.
Kurt Tank - Konstrukteur und Testpilot bei Focke-Wulf by Wolfgang Wagner, Bernard & Graefe 1991 has a similar entry. No drawings in either book.

Looking through the GL meeting minutes from mid-late 1941 into early 1942, I can't find any reference to an Argus As 402-powered Fw 189 being planned for production. There's references to getting an MG 81 installed in the tail, references to an 'interesting proposal' regarding the use of Gnome-Rhone engines, questions as to whether the 189 is suitable for 'schraegeinbau' (what the Germans actually called 'Schraege Musik' during WW2) and a note from a meeting in Feb 1942 where the army asks when the 189 can be replaced by the 109 due to the former's inadequate speed and armour protection. Evidently there had just been some sort of 'fly-off' at Jueterbog, where the 189 was defeated by the 109 Aufklaerer. Nothing on an As 402 Fw 189 though.
It's possible that there was an Fw 189 G project, but I doubt it reached the stage where an order was placed for series production.
 

hesham

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Looking through the GL meeting minutes from mid-late 1941 into early 1942, I can't find any reference to an Argus As 402-powered Fw 189 being planned for production. There's references to getting an MG 81 installed in the tail, references to an 'interesting proposal' regarding the use of Gnome-Rhone engines, questions as to whether the 189 is suitable for 'schraegeinbau' (what the Germans actually called 'Schraege Musik' during WW2) and a note from a meeting in Feb 1942 where the army asks when the 189 can be replaced by the 109 due to the former's inadequate speed and armour protection. Evidently there had just been some sort of 'fly-off' at Jueterbog, where the 189 was defeated by the 109 Aufklaerer. Nothing on an As 402 Fw 189 though.
It's possible that there was an Fw 189 G project, but I doubt it reached the stage where an order was placed for series production.
My dear Dan,

what is your opinion in this Info from, Flugzeug Profile 49 - Fw 189 Uhu ?.
 

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Jemiba

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In Hans-Peter Dabrowskis book "Focke-Wulf Nahaufklärer Fw 189A Uhu" a short paragraph about the
Fw 189 G can be found. A cut-out from a letter to the RLM is shown, too, with a comparison of the
attainable speeds with different engines, including the As 402, and comparing them to the Ha/Bv 141,
without mentioning a "Fw 189 G" nevertheless. That document is said to be from the 22nd of December
1939, when the Fw 189 was in contest with the Bv 141, which was considerably faster. So thoughts about
using the As 402 seem to have started much earlier, than 1941.
(chart from the mentioned book)
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newsdeskdan

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In Hans-Peter Dabrowskis book "Focke-Wulf Nahaufklärer Fw 189A Uhu" a short paragraph about the
Fw 189 G can be found. A cut-out from a letter to the RLM is shown, too, with a comparison of the
attainable speeds with different engines, including the As 402, and comparing them to the Ha/Bv 141,
without mentioning a "Fw 189 G" nevertheless. That document is said to be from the 22nd of December
1939, when the Fw 189 was in contest with the Bv 141, which was considerably faster. So thoughts about
using the As 402 seem to have started much earlier, than 1941.
(chart from the mentioned book)
View attachment 653124

Based on Dabrowski's book then, it would appear that an Fw 189 powered by two As 402s was planned but in 1939. As I said, I can find nothing in any of the GL reports to indicate that this design was either 1) Planned for production three years later - in 1942. 2) Called the Fw 189 G. The lettering of types was usually chronological, starting with A, then moving to B, followed by C etc. It seems unlikely to me that Focke-Wulf had already reached G by 1939. We don't appear to have any evidence that anything was called the Fw 189 G, let alone the design meant to be powered by two As 402s.
Then again, material on the Fw 189 is extremely sparse. Focke-Wulf's documents were captured largely intact and there is plenty of material on the Fw 190 etc. It's possible that the document assessors weeding out 'interesting' material from Focke-Wulf's archive were simply told that the 189 was of no interest and to earmark all the papers concerning it for destrution - with only a few slipping the net. As such, the history of the As 402-powered design seems likely to remain murky.
 

iverson

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Based on Dabrowski's book then, it would appear that an Fw 189 powered by two As 402s was planned but in 1939. ... We don't appear to have any evidence that anything was called the Fw 189 G, let alone the design meant to be powered by two As 402s.
... As such, the history of the As 402-powered design seems likely to remain murky.
What is the As402? I haven't found anything on this engine other than the name.
 

Apophenia

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Based on Dabrowski's book then, it would appear that an Fw 189 powered by two As 402s was planned but in 1939. ... We don't appear to have any evidence that anything was called the Fw 189 G, let alone the design meant to be powered by two As 402s.
... As such, the history of the As 402-powered design seems likely to remain murky.
What is the As402? I haven't found anything on this engine other than the name.

Dabrowski may have got that from William Green.

"A more radically modified development, the Fw 189G with a 950 h.p. Argus As 402 engines and a number of structural changes, was planned for production in 1942, but in the event the As 402 engine failed to attain production status, necessitating the abandoning of this project."

Warplanes of the Second World War, Bombers and Recce Aircraft, Vol. 9, Macdonald, Longon, 1967, page 58

Dan: You mentioned the As 402 in your coverage of the Arado E 380. In the drawing of the E 380-1, the As 402 looks like an air-cooled inverted V-12. Was that the case?
 
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newsdeskdan

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Based on Dabrowski's book then, it would appear that an Fw 189 powered by two As 402s was planned but in 1939. ... We don't appear to have any evidence that anything was called the Fw 189 G, let alone the design meant to be powered by two As 402s.
... As such, the history of the As 402-powered design seems likely to remain murky.
What is the As402? I haven't found anything on this engine other than the name.

Dabrowski may have got that from William Green.

"A more radically modified development, the Fw 189G with a 950 h.p. Argus As 402 engines and a number of structural changes, was planned for production in 1942, but in the event the As 402 engine failed to attain production status, necessitating the abandoning of this project."

Warplanes of the Second World War, Bombers and Recce Aircraft, Vol. 9, Macdonald, Longon, 1967, page 58

Dan: You mentioned the As 402 in your coverage of the Arado E 380. In the drawing of the E 380-1, the As 402 looks like an air-cooled inverted V-12. Was that the case?

The As 402 does appear on the drawing of the Arado E 380-1 of October 1942. It also appears as a powerplant option for the Arado E 310 twin-engine carrier aircraft of June 1939. Unfortunately, neither set of project documents describes what the As 402 actually is.

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hesham

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From, Samolot rozpoznawczy Focke-Wulf Fw 189 Uhu.
 

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ArmchairSamurai

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Found these photos while searchin' for a better quality photo on the Fw 189 A-0. Never thought the Fw 189 would be considered for a ground-attack role. Makes me wonder, if not for the underpowered engines, how well it would perform in said role.

 

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iverson

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Found these photos while searchin' for a better quality photo on the Fw 189 A-0. Never thought the Fw 189 would be considered for a ground-attack role. Makes me wonder, if not for the underpowered engines, how well it would perform in said role.

The Fw189C close-support variant is fairly well-known. It was a two-seat competitor to the Hs129A. Both were hobbled by the specified Argus engines, which as you note, were nowhere near powerful enough to handle the required armor and armament. The Luftwaffe considered the Henschel airplane marginally more promising and had it re-engined with Gnome-Rhone radials as the the more familiar Hs129B series. But the French engines were still marginal. I believe that the Germans looked at various, possible replacement engines, including the Isotta-Fraschini Delta . But nothing came of it.
 

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