• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

US Lifting Bodies Studies - START (ASSET/PRIME), FDL, X-24, etc.

XP67_Moonbat

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
2,154
Reaction score
11
ASSET pamphlet.

http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2014/03/mcdonnell-asset-program.html
 

Bill Walker

Per Ardua ad Nauseum
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
482
Reaction score
0
Website
rwrwalker.ca
GTV is often used for Ground Test Vehicle. These can be used for things like stiffness and natural frequency tests before flight.
 

JimK

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
53
Reaction score
3
While trolling the Internet for some other cutaway I came across this:

It was identified as the Martin Scout and was called "vintage". I looks to be a late-60s study and approximates in shape the AFFDL F-3K or F-4 lifting bodies. The cutaway presentation shows some curious details: It is, apparently, unpowered. It has a small payload bay, which can be opened to the outside. What is that at the blunt end? Some sort of detachable lifting body? Check out that visual aid for the high-alpha landing attitude. Anyone have any ideas as to what it was supposed to "scout"?
 

Attachments

Orionblamblam

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,325
Reaction score
185
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
JimK said:
Some sort of detachable lifting body?
Most likely a nuke. If this was a research vehicle, it's unlikely it'd have three crew. "Scout" might not actually be a relevant designation, but it might have been meant to scout out ground targets to take out. Mobile ICBMs and the like.
 

ohpossum

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
JimK said:
It is, apparently, unpowered.

To me, the rectangular smoke stack means its coal fired..the two guys in the backseat have to stoke the boilers ;)


The landing aid is very intriguing. But also, I've never seen skid+wheel combos for the main gear. I was always under the impression skid-type main gear were required when the aft end heating would be more than wheel/tire materials at the time could handle. Though being unpowered, maybe the reentry heating (suborbital only perhaps? Though the big winged nuke in the tail end makes that unlikely) on this design wouldn't be an issue. But then why skids at all then? well..they do look very cool, so that has to be worth some points
 

antiquark

I like the space shuttle!
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
The fiber-optic (?) periscope and landing skids are reminiscent to this one from up-ship.com. Seems to be lacking the nuke scout though.

 

antiquark

I like the space shuttle!
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
JimK said:
While trolling the Internet for some other cutaway I came across this:

It was identified as the Martin Scout and was called "vintage". I looks to be a late-60s study and approximates in shape the AFFDL F-3K or F-4 lifting bodies. The cutaway presentation shows some curious details: It is, apparently, unpowered. It has a small payload bay, which can be opened to the outside. What is that at the blunt end? Some sort of detachable lifting body? Check out that visual aid for the high-alpha landing attitude. Anyone have any ideas as to what it was supposed to "scout"?
If I may somewhat go out on a limb here, based on various things I've read...

That pointy, swept-back shape indicates that the vehicle had a good L/D ratio in the hypersonic gliding regime. This allowed it dip into the upper atmosphere, then maneuver around, performing continent-wide U-turns with enough energy to glide back home. It would be a pretty good bomber, coming in low, at 100,000 feet or thereabouts, and fast, at near-orbital velocities. So by the time it appeared on the enemies radar, it would be too late to respond to... the ultimate surprise attack weapon!

It's interesting that the payload is mounted "upside down" compared to the rest of the vehicle. However it's not hard to imagine a scenario that makes sense. "When you see Moscow, crank a hard left and then drop the bomb, which will make a hard right."

One tough engineering aspect of these hypersonic gliders is that they got extremely hot for a long period of time. They would have mostly relied on exotic metals and active cooling schemes, such as pumping water through the skin. So I think the crude "virtual reality" setup was needed because the vehicle had no windows, out of necessity.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
antiquark said:
The fiber-optic (?) periscope and landing skids are reminiscent to this one from up-ship.com. Seems to be lacking the nuke scout though.


Wow,very nice drawing,thank you Antiquark.
 

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
8,980
Reaction score
178
Orionblamblam said:
JimK said:
Some sort of detachable lifting body?
Most likely a nuke. If this was a research vehicle, it's unlikely it'd have three crew. "Scout" might not actually be a relevant designation, but it might have been meant to scout out ground targets to take out. Mobile ICBMs and the like.
Alternatively, it could be some sort of deployable penetration aid for the bombers that the Scout was intended to support.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
flateric said:
This is Rockwell's HRA (Hypersonic Research Aircraft), as it goes from the schematics above, it was 1973 Mach 10 subscale prototype of HSRA.

My dear Flateric,


here is a clearer views to Rockwell HRA;


http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/3.59842
 

Attachments

Bomiwriter

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
58
Reaction score
0
Concerning Martin; they designed the second of the baby boost-gliders...called Prime and a few were successfully tested atop the Atlas booster. The other was McDonnell's Asset launched atop rebuilt ex-British loaned Thors. Asset tested out panels for Dyna Soar, while the Prime had a wrap-around insulation jacket testing it re-entry survivability. I believe it was designed by Hans Multhopp who was also one of the manager's in the BoMi Division of Martin-Bell, and helped design the team's Dyna Soar gliders. My Martin photo collection shows a family of models that are derivatives of the SV-5 config (lifting body type) modified into multiple astronaut carrying orbital supply, rescue, maintenance and orbital bombardment servicing gliders-they resembe "baguette" lifting body like vehicles like the X-24A. They tried to cover a field where the USAF was, during 1959-1961 or 1962, receiving studies from industry on both unarmed and armed boost-gliders or lifting body configurations necessary for a planned, or at least paper studied, orbital military space force...as Orion knows, this was the area many aeronautical firms threw in their hats with studies for same...it was known as SR-181...a very delicate subject even today. Martin was no slacker...they had several departments that did nothing but create radical ideas, pushing the known aerodynamics of hypersonic flight as far as they could go; their proposal for an orbital bombardment Dyna Soar was amazing...how in hell it was to be launched weighing around 34,000 pounds (I dunno if that was or without the reentry missiles aboard), and it came in short-snorter and long versions...short-snorter was for like 30 days or so while the long version was supposedly good for 6 to 12 months. Supplied, of course, by ta-da, Martin lifting-body spacecraft for crew-change and resupply. Amazing stuff and not in any way Star Wars style fighting ya know. Bomwriter ends.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
Hi,


here is the McDonnell-Douglas Hypersonic Arbitrary-Body Concepts.


http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/0851811.pdf
 

Attachments

Mark Nankivil

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
1,526
Reaction score
126
Good Day All -

On EPay is this model of the Douglas proposal for the M2-F2.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-Rare-Douglas-Aircraft-Space-Model-NASA-M2-F2-Lifting-body-Proposal-In-house-/331666639863?hash=item4d38df4bf7

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
XP67_Moonbat said:
:D I'll just leave this here

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3303/4589926701_25f47c74b0.jpg
Hi,

https://archive.org/stream/missilesrockets1719unse#page/n691/mode/2up
 

Attachments

Michel Van

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
70
What for interesting find, blackstar

thanks
 

Richard9038

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
I have an X-24B checklist given to me by one of the pilot., Any idea on the worth? I plan on having it preserved and put it under glasss
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
Hi,

I never saw like this concept exactly,a variable-geometry reentry.

http://archive.aviationweek.com/image/spread/19591102/49/2
http://archive.aviationweek.com/image/spread/19591102/50/2
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
Hi,

http://archive.aviationweek.com/image/spread/19600725/28/2
http://archive.aviationweek.com/image/spread/19600725/29/2
http://archive.aviationweek.com/image/spread/19600725/30/2
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
Hi,

http://archive.aviationweek.com/image/spread/19730917/42/2
 

Attachments

fightingirish

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,123
Reaction score
97

RAP

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
615
Reaction score
169
Martin SV-5 Model

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Vintage-Martin-SV-5-USAF-Resin-Lifting-Body-Contractors-Desk-Model-/222153233609?hash=item33b95d54c9:g:JXwAAOSwNuxXYGb1
 

Attachments

XP67_Moonbat

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
2,154
Reaction score
11
You guys might like some of these pics. Some of those pics seem pretty new to me. Probably because I've never seen them before! :-D

The shots of the X-24A being converted to the B configuration are worth a gander.

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/128712737@N03/sets/72157654395157503/
 

Attachments

Boxman

CLEARANCE: Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
280
Reaction score
15
Recently posted on YouTube by NASA Armstrong Flight Research Center (Edwards AFB), December 12, 1969 footage of the remote controlled flight (piloted by Milt Thompson on the ground) of the Hyper III, after being dropped from altitude by a "borrowed" US Navy Sikorsky SH-3 Sea King helicopter (piloted by Bruce Peterson).
YouTube - NASA Armstrong Research Flight Center "Hyper III Drop Test From SH-3 Helicopter"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwdClhh1HwE
 

XP67_Moonbat

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
2,154
Reaction score
11
I'm not sure if this one's been posted before or not


http://www.up-ship.com/images/C5tav.jpg
 

Attachments

Michel Van

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
70
XP67_Moonbat said:
I'm not sure if this one's been posted before or not
http://www.up-ship.com/images/C5tav.jpg
It's not !
And it's new here, thanks allot for posting !
 

RAP

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
615
Reaction score
169
X-24C model

https://www.ebay.com/itm/X-24-C-Martin-Marietta-NASA-X24-Airplane-Desktop-Model-Hypersonic-Vehicle-As-Is/332796134043?hash=item4d7c32029b:g:J4gAAOSwohJbkZ97
 

Attachments

flateric

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
8,772
Reaction score
191
what it has to do with _lifting bodies_?
 

Michel Van

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
70
flateric said:
what it has to do with _lifting bodies_?
That's Convair version of reusable Atlas rocket
the reusable Second stage is a lifting body

 
Top