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"Ultimate battleship" designs

Tzoli

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The torpedoes are a mystery, my friend who scanned the many Admirality papers regarding the Lion design does not mention the cause of the installation of the torpedoes or their mission.
There are two theories which are the most realistic:
A - Launchers for long range acoustic torpedoes something like the British equivalent of the Japanese Long Lances with a reliable guidance system
B - Launchers for self/fleet defence ASW torpedoes.
 

DWG

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The torpedoes are a mystery, my friend who scanned the many Admirality papers regarding the Lion design does not mention the cause of the installation of the torpedoes or their mission.
There are two theories which are the most realistic:
A - Launchers for long range acoustic torpedoes something like the British equivalent of the Japanese Long Lances with a reliable guidance system
B - Launchers for self/fleet defence ASW torpedoes.
More likely, because it took torpedoes to finish both Bismarck and Scharnhorst (and factions in the RN had always been reluctant to remove torpedoes from the existing battleships).
 

Dilandu

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A - Launchers for long range acoustic torpedoes something like the British equivalent of the Japanese Long Lances with a reliable guidance system
If I recall correctly, there were efforts to put a "Trumper" active acoustic seeker on the standard Mark VIII/IX torpedoes in 1945.
 

Foo Fighter

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According to the latest assessments in recent inspections, it took scuttling charges to finish the Bismarck.
 

Tzoli

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The Torpedoes were present on the 1938, 1944 and some of the 1945 series of Lion designs
And while in the KGV space was allocated for an ASDIC, in the Lion it was intended to carry it from the beginning.

"In February 1938 Controller decided that the 1936 and 1937 battleships
and carriers should have space reserved, but that the 1938 and later capital ships
(e.g., Lion class battleships) should have more elaborate provision to fit Asdic."
 

Iron Felix

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Ultimate battleship (for 1890th), "Battleship forts":
18976_600.jpg
19227_600.jpg
And, bonus, British gun turret patent (need a 20-inch guns ):
19869_600.jpg
19483_600.jpg
 

Tzoli

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That quad elevated turret are from Vickers from 1901-02.
Calibre not stated but I assume 12" Or it's a general elevated quad turret which could be prportinally resized to accept the calibres of that time (7,5", 9,2", 10", 12")
 

Tzoli

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But 8knots... that is more like a Giga Monitor! or Super Coastal Battleship! But that firepower!
Each turret has the same firepower as one "standard" battleship of the time!
 

Grey Havoc

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Very interesting indeed as always, thanks! Something like that (Mobile Battle Forts) might have proven useful in both WWI and WWII. The 'Battleship Exterminators' sound like an extension of the Torpedo Ram concept.
 
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Grey Havoc

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If they had been built, those vessels more than likely would have been more than likely ended up being manned by the Royal Garrison Artillery, probably with some assistance from the Corps of Royal Engineers and the Army Service Corps.

EDIT: Then again though, Major-General (later additionally Sir) John Frederick Crease was a retired but still highly respected Royal Marine Artillery officer, so they may have possibly gotten the job instead. Reinforced with personnel from the Royal Naval Reserve, perhaps?
 
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Tzoli

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I doubt that. 8knots is only good for coastal defence or shore bombardment.
With proper design say 3 quad turrets on the centreline or even 2 and better hull shape you could get at least twice or a bit more, the speed which was what the normal Battleships were capable of at that time.
 

Fr05ty

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Were there any battleship designs for the Italian Navy after the UP.41 design? Maybe not quite "super battleship", but something that could go toe to toe with an Iowa or a Montana? There're rumours of a 4x4 406mm battleship design, but I don't know much beyond that
 

Tzoli

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Italian capital ship design work sized to exist after the armistice. I know no other capital ships after the Roma conversion proposal or the Aquila/Sparviero. Battleship wise the same the last was UP-41 as it seems. Of course there was the Littorio's export version required by Spain from around 1939.

Don't you mix the Ferrati projected battleships from 1914 which featured quad turrets? Those were to be armed with 381mm Cannons and to my latest knowledge / findings not with the Caracciolo's 40 calibre but a different longer 45 calibre ones!
 

ceccherini

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Were there any battleship designs for the Italian Navy after the UP.41 design? Maybe not quite "super battleship", but something that could go toe to toe with an Iowa or a Montana? There're rumours of a 4x4 406mm battleship design, but I don't know much beyond that
UP41 was a private export design for Russia, not a design by Regia Marina nor intended for Regia Marina. Before 1940 RM was working on the design of a battleship armed with 3x3 406mm guns and very long range, combining diesel engine and turbine on 5 or 6 shafts. It was studied in case of an escalation of the naval race that Italy was actively discouraging, hoping to maintain the very favorable power ratio obtained by the late '30 against the French Navy. Italy hoped in a third London naval conference to take place in 1940 and to tailor Treaty limits on Littorio' s specs. If so, two more Littorios after Roma and Impero were to be laid down before 1945. Never heard of a 4 quadruple turret design in the late '30 time frame and I think it is absolutely implausible: Regia Marina known very well she could never expect to match other great European navies in a race to built extremely large battleships and she had both interest and intentions to not escalate battleship's size. One must also consider that many in RM were quite dismissive regarding the prospect of a 16"gun, evaluating it not much more powerful than the very potent 15" already adopted. However larger battleship's building was considered realistic enough at a later time to start building very large dry dock in Taranto. I think that ultimately, had the war not intervened, had the hope of a new Treaty failed, having to counter a larger number of battleship than she could have built, not liking the 16" gun, Regia Marina would have taken the Japanese way of building a small number of superiorly armed battleships with guns larger than 16" but this is only an hypothesis based on the Italian strategic thinking and conditions of immediate pre war.
 
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Tzoli

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Yes the Cassone battlecruiser with 4x2 28" and a unique underwater defence system but again that was from the 1920's:
 
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Tzoli

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Italian capital ship design work sized to exist after the armistice. I know no other capital ships after the Roma conversion proposal or the Aquila/Sparviero. Battleship wise the same the last was UP-41 as it seems. Of course there was the Littorio's export version required by Spain from around 1939.

Don't you mix the Ferrati projected battleships from 1914 which featured quad turrets? Those were to be armed with 381mm Cannons and to my latest knowledge / findings not with the Caracciolo's 40 calibre but a different longer 45 calibre ones!
Were there any battleship designs for the Italian Navy after the UP.41 design? Maybe not quite "super battleship", but something that could go toe to toe with an Iowa or a Montana? There're rumours of a 4x4 406mm battleship design, but I don't know much beyond that
Neither the USN nor the IJN designed battleships post 1936 with that much firepower on basically a Yamato sized hull!
Both were maximum 12 barrels: 4x3 16" / 41cm
 
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