Huh, I thought they'd extend the existing VLS deckhouse. This looks like an afterthought. Oh well, as long as it gets the job done.

Not sure but the smaller one might help with main gun traverse limits. But I am surprised that the side walls don't join to the Aster installation.
 
Not sure but the smaller one might help with main gun traverse limits. But I am surprised that the side walls don't join to the Aster installation.
Because the CAMM silos are just above deck level, but need a breakwater, simply joining the sidewalls to the Aster farm would create a nice paddling pool. If you need the space inside the breakwater to be freely draining, then you might as well make the hole wide enough for people to walk through.
 
Because the CAMM silos are just above deck level, but need a breakwater, simply joining the sidewalls to the Aster farm would create a nice paddling pool. If you need the space inside the breakwater to be freely draining, then you might as well make the hole wide enough for people to walk through.
I was just thinking they'd join the breakwaters and remove the central section, Navylookout did an image of it years ago that looked quite good.
 
Yep, I'm sure the RN will have their reasons, might be something to do with rocket efflux from the hot launched Aster as a reason to keep them seperate.
Looking at that, it would also raise the CAMM cells by a meter or so. This way you're definatively adding less material to the ship.
 
Here's the latest state of play for CAMM and ASRAAM Customers at present and in near future...

CAMM/CAMM-ER customers to date:

British Army
Royal Navy
Royal New Zealand Navy
Royal Norwegian Navy
Chilean Navy
Brazilian Navy
Brazilian Army
Italian Air Force
Italian Army
Pakistan Navy
Polish Army
Polish Air Force
Polish Navy
Royal Saudi Navy
Swedish Navy

The British Army 'should' be getting CAMM-ER in the near future, Cmdr 7AD has said as much and outgoing head of RA, and 'medium ranged' AD is in the pipeline. You'd also have to think that CAMM-MR is also on the cards from 2030 for the UK and Poland at least. What that means for the RN is anyone's guess, the Army and Navy share a common stockpile of missiles...

I've removed the Royal Canadian Navy as they've confirmed they're getting RIM-116 instead, removed Italian Navy as they haven't actually confirmed Albatros NG on any ships yet, added Norway and Brazilian Army for CAMM/CAMM-ER and added Ukraine (ground launched) and Turkey for Asraam.

I suspect other sales are in the works...particularly in the Gulf and Brazilian Marines (now that the Navy have CAMM and Army are getting CAMM-ER). The Italian Navy may make a reappearance at some point as well...

ASRAAM customers to date:

Royal Air Force (Block 6 will completely replace legacy Asraam from 2022 onwards)
Royal Australian Air Force (Questions remain about Asraam's future in RAAF service)
Indian Air Force (Unclear if Block 6 is part of the deal)
Qatar Emiri Air Force (Likely Asraam Block 6 only when delivered).
Royal Air Force of Oman (Likely Asraam Block 6 only when delivered).
Turkish Air Force
Ukrainian Armed Forces (Believe its the Army) - Ground launched Asraam from Raven system.
 
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14 users of the CAMM compared to 18 for the ESSM, despite the latter having been around for far longer.

This missile has done brilliantly in comparison with other British GWS.

Indeed. Iterative development of a sensible product...with long term investment and backing....who would have thought it would have led somewhere...

Truth is it could do even more with the Complex Weapons approach, a CAMM-SR (derived from a cheap rocket with lo-cost seeker), CAMM-LR (derived from Meteor) and both of the LPS designs (the CAMM/Brimstone hybrid and 'Spear-ER' variant) launching from Soft Vertical Launch canisters either at sea or on land would be an even more compelling proposal. Wouldn't cost the earth to develop either as all of the expensive parts are there....

The time to do all that, and embrace it would be now (or 5 years ago..)...unfortunately I'm not sure there is the willpower...
 
14 users of the CAMM compared to 18 for the ESSM, despite the latter having been around for far longer.

This missile has done brilliantly in comparison with other British GWS.
To be fair, ESSM doesn't really have a ground launched version. AMRAAM-ER is close, which adds Taiwan and Qatar, iirc to ESSM's 18, and there's only like 9 current or planned naval CAMM users, no?

CAMM is great though. I'm a big fan of how light and small it is. You should be able to fit it on comically low displacement ships/boats. I'd love to see an Ambassador with CAMM, a 76mm gun and 8 NSM.
 
I think the export success is perhaps mostly down to the soft launch approach and small cells which just makes the physical integration onto ships much easier. The physical and software integration side made easier with the active seeker Vs having to put an illuminator on-board the ship.

To me it seems more like a few key technical innovations make the difference rather than anything else.
 
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It'll be a tragedy if the UK doesn't end up procuring these - it seems to be such an easy win. I wonder if this reveal is part of a push to entice Denmark and Sweden into the CAMM family alongside a potential Arrowhead 140 purchase, given that both of those nations are looking for an air defence ship.

Screenshot 2025-09-05 10.21.32 AM.png
Different angle from the video. There's even a handy Aquila missile there to for scale ;)
 
It'll be a tragedy if the UK doesn't end up procuring these - it seems to be such an easy win. I wonder if this reveal is part of a push to entice Denmark and Sweden into the CAMM family alongside a potential Arrowhead 140 purchase, given that both of those nations are looking for an air defence ship.

It's a no brainer...and I think it will happen...but....weirdly I think we're going to skip CAMM-ER, although I think that's a mistake. I find it incredible that we still don't know (because no-one has had the wherewithal to actually asked MBDA and the RN) if GWS.35 on Type 26 and 31 will accommodate the longer canister from CAMM-ER....

A lot will depend on if MR remains wholly Cold Launched through its development cycle using the Soft Vertical Launch method..
 
It's a no brainer...and I think it will happen...but....weirdly I think we're going to skip CAMM-ER, although I think that's a mistake. I find it incredible that we still don't know (because no-one has had the wherewithal to actually asked MBDA and the RN) if GWS.35 on Type 26 and 31 will accommodate the longer canister from CAMM-ER....

A lot will depend on if MR remains wholly Cold Launched through its development cycle using the Soft Vertical Launch method..
There seems to be far more British involvement in the development of CAMM-MR than there was for CAMM-ER, or at least, MBDA want to put that image forward. I mean, the CAMM-MR took pride of place in the stall next to the Dragonfire DEW.
 
Just some speculation on CAMM-MR....

This poster thinks the rocket motor is a 300mm rocket motor under development for a sub orbital project in Poland....
I make it 254mm (10 inch) based on original CAMM diameter of 166mm (6.5 inch) taking up ~13 small squares and base diameter of 19.5 small squares. This would make the most sense in terms of naval quad-packing into a ~22 inch VLS cell.

1757076955059.png
 
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I make it 254mm (10 inch) based on original CAMM diameter of 166mm (6.6 inch) taking up ~13 small squares and base diameter of 19.5 small squares. This would make the most sense in terms of naval quad-packing into a ~22 inch VLS cell.

View attachment 783710

Gotta be more than 10 inches, because that's what ESSM is, and it quad-packs into a Mk 41 cell, which has a max canister width of ~25 inches. Since they have opted for a dual-pack, think closer to 12 inches, plus the folding strakes.

(The notional SM-2 derived dual pack eliminated the strakes entirely and was a tight squeeze at 13.5 inches.)
 
Gotta be more than 10 inches, because that's what ESSM is, and it quad-packs into a Mk 41 cell, which has a max canister width of ~25 inches. Since they have opted for a dual-pack, think closer to 12 inches, plus the folding strakes.

(The notional SM-2 derived dual pack eliminated the strakes entirely and was a tight squeeze at 13.5 inches.)
Only going by the model there, which may or may not be accurate.
 
I've removed the Royal Canadian Navy as they've confirmed they're getting RIM-116 instead, removed Italian Navy as they haven't actually confirmed Albatros NG on any ships yet, added Norway and Brazilian Army for CAMM/CAMM-ER and added Ukraine (ground launched) and Turkey for Asraam.

I suspect other sales are in the works...particularly in the Gulf and Brazilian Marines (now that the Navy have CAMM and Army are getting CAMM-ER). The Italian Navy may make a reappearance at some point as well...

WRT the Marina Militare;

Definitely right to take them off the list.

As far as future prospects for its deployment go, it has been mentioned that there are studies for integrating Albatros NG into the follow-on PPX (i.e. ships other than the first hull already laid down or the second ship that will start construction this month), but it seems unlikely it will go ahead - apparently considerable modification is necessary to fit the minimum armament (12 silos), or otherwise the sacrifice of the 76mm gun position. Given the role of the PPX, there isn't really much of an argument in favor of this.

Beyond this, the general thought is that the EPC/MMPC are the most likely platforms to receive Albatros NG (should any platform be tapped for it) just given the size of the platform, their expected role (ASW), and the relatively limited air defense requirements that are likely to be set for it. But that remains to be seen. But with that said, to date all material around the Full Combat Multipurpose (FCM) variant have shown a single 8-cell VLS module, which doesn't exactly scream 'Albatros NG'. Ideally we will have have a contract for the prototype ships of each variant, and that will give us a more firm answer.
 
CAMM/CAMM-ER customers to date:

British Army
Royal Navy
Royal New Zealand Navy
Royal Norwegian Navy
Chilean Navy
Brazilian Navy
Brazilian Army
Italian Air Force
Italian Army
Pakistan Navy
Polish Army
Polish Navy
Royal Saudi Navy
Swedish Navy
Polish Air Force too, as some of the AD systems using the CAMM family will be operated by the Air Force units.

Just some speculation on CAMM-MR....

This poster thinks the rocket motor is a 300mm rocket motor under development for a sub orbital project in Poland....

But..... unless that rocket is IM compliant (and why would you go to that expense for such a rocket) I can't see it myself....
Oh hello there, that's me:)
Now after I measured it, the missile body does indeed seem smaller, at about 10 inches, so I'm not sure if it's gonna be that engine or not, though it still seems like it's not a detailed mock-up.
 
Oh hello there, that's me:)
Now after I measured it, the missile body does indeed seem smaller, at about 10 inches, so I'm not sure if it's gonna be that engine or not, though it still seems like it's not a detailed mock-up.

Hopefully it finds another application...I can think of a few for a 300mm booster...

Polish Air Force too, as some of the AD systems using the CAMM family will be operated by the Air Force units.

Many thanks. I'll add that on. Is it Pilica or Narew that they will be operating? Presumably for air base defence?
 
Many thanks. I'll add that on. Is it Pilica or Narew that they will be operating? Presumably for air base defence?
Pilica and some of the Narew batteries. Pilica is used strictly by the Air Force, by all 6 air defense battalions of the 3rd Warsaw Air Defense Missile Brigade, as a system that defends airfields and now also Wisła system batteries, and some of the Narew batteries are also supposed to be operated by the Air Force.

Hopefully it finds another application...I can think of a few for a 300mm booster...
We'll see how the production version of the CAMM-MR will look like, I still have hope for this motor. Or at least something based on it, as WITU would have to make a slower burning fuel (according to my calculations based on data from this brochure: https://witu.home.pl/www/ulotki2022/silnik_rakietowy.pdf, it burns almost twice as fast as that of the Mk104 motor of the SM-2MR) and make the engine longer. Though adding such a booster to the ready CAMM-MR would be interesting.
 
Seems like a good idea. The system has done well in Ukraine, might as well continue to develop it.
 
So they're gonna put it in launch canisters, that's interesting. Wonder if it would make integration with the iLauncher possible.

I suspect they're more launch canisters in the NASAM's sense than the CAMM sense.

So missiles removed from normal transport canisters and loaded into the mounted launch canisters which have internal rails for rail launch. Also, no full environmental protection like you get with the CAMM canister, more complex reloads, no vertical launch and missile range lost as a result of no turnover pack prior to main engine ignition. I strongly suspect that hot launch will not be possible on ilauncher due to the effect of efflux on neighbouring canisters.
 
I suspect they're more launch canisters in the NASAM's sense than the CAMM sense.
Agreed, as soon as you opt for a permanent transport/launch canister you're sacrificing the idea of having a common ASRAAM stockpile across ground and air, which is the main justification for opting for surface launch ASRAAM rather than CAMM.
 
I suspect they're more launch canisters in the NASAM's sense than the CAMM sense.
Oh that's for sure, if it's meant to be an "SL-ASRAAM" and not "CAMM-IIR" then it would have to be a launch canister with a rail inside, so NASAMS style.

I strongly suspect that hot launch will not be possible on ilauncher due to the effect of efflux on neighbouring canisters.
I don't think it would be a problem, especially now with the canisters as they would protect other missiles from the exhaust gases and the debris thrown around during launch. There are multiple hot vertical launch systems, for example the IRIS-T SLM or the SPYDER, and they don't suffer from such issues, so a properly designed ASRAAM launch container would definitely work here. And iLauncher's design would make reloading much quicker since the whole missile rack could be swapped instead of having to reload each missile on the launcher itself.
 
Would be pretty neat if they figured out how to stick them in something without needing to elevate the launcher. Like Tor without the rotating turret, and with western radars
That might be possible with CAMM, probably not with ASRAAM.
How deep is the Ajax turret basket, I wonder, and is Giraffe 1X good enough to cue CAMM?
 

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