TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

Proportions said:
I noticed that this photo is in high resolution. Where can I find original high quality technical drawing of the entire aircraft?
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Ehm... you literally can't? (unless you ask TA directly) His drawing is a fan-made estimation of the cross-section of the plane. There bound to be some mistakes with his estimates considering he's not an insider.
 
A Saudi MoD delegation examined the Kaan
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FighterJock said:
So it looks like Saudi Arabia could well be the first export customer for the Kaan.
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This is why I wasn't sure whether to share it here. Yes, Turkey is trying to find customers/partners and there are indeed many delegations visiting TAI these days; and the Saudis are just one of 'em. There were seperate visits from the NATO chief and the RAF brass some time ago as well, but that doesn't mean they're looking to be a part of the programme.
 
This is an indelicate question to ask, but how much of Turkish culture is influenced by the Arabic "inshallah" fatalistic view? Yes, I know Turks aren't Arabs and will likely be rather insulted at the comparison.

This gets into a lot of maintenance issues especially, the "inshallah" view tends to not do maintenance or at best hires other people to do the maintenance.

My ugly American view is that the Turks were not particularly infected by that fatalism, but with firm Islamists like Erdogan in charge I'm not sure if that has changed.
 
GeekerSeeker said:
We cannot deny that inshallah culture is a little bit accepted. In an area with buildings damaged from a recent earthquake I personally heard people say "inshallah it won't hit here again" when I asked why do they insist living there when they have options.

Inshallah that's not the case in defense sector :)
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Thank you for the answer.
 
Waterballoon said:
The Block 10 would be the most obvious replacement for the (earliest) F-15C's
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Shouldn't we all better wait until the first serial aircraft - and even more so those with the promised indigenous - engine es ready?
Otherwise, at least by now and even if a great achievement, until the new engine is not ready, it won't be exported anywhere first due to insufficient performance and second due to an US veto; they never will agree to sell this type with US engines and SA will never buy it when mature F-15s are available.
 
Deino said:
Otherwise, at least by now and even if a great achievement, until the new engine is not ready, it won't be exported anywhere first due to insufficient performance and second due to an US veto; they never will agree to sell this type with US engines and SA will never buy it when mature F-15s are available.
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A US provided engine hasn't stopped exports of Gripen etc. previously? Why would it here?
 
red admiral said:
A US provided engine hasn't stopped exports of Gripen etc. previously? Why would it here?
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It has stopped the export of a Turkish attack heli to Pakistan though. Frankly that was more because of the Pak-US relations and export of critical tech, and delivery to Philippines was unaffected; but Turkish-American relations have always been troublesome and even then it has recently reached a new low. The Turkish side has had a deep mistrust for at least 20 years by now; and they're currently using American engines out of necessity until their domestic equivalents reach enough maturity. (https://turdef.com/article/tei-runs-tf6000-turbofan-engine-for-the-first-time).

https://quwa.org/daily-news/pakistan-extends-t129-atak-delivery-window-by-one-year/
https://quwa.org/daily-news/update-2019-pakistans-t129-atak-attack-helicopter-purchase/
https://theaviationist.com/2024/05/23/philippine-air-force-last-t129-helicopters/

See Baykar for example, even if they could've theoretically gotten F124/125s from Honeywell for use on the Kizilelma, they instead chose Ukranian engines believing the production wouldn't be interrupted and there wouldn't be Western meddling (this was before the war)

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/32056-turkey-ukraine-continue-to-work-on-kizilelma-stealth-drone

Deino said:
SA will never buy it when mature F-15s are available.
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I know that you're usually quite pessimistic when it comes to Kaan; but if you were the Saudis, would you pursue a 50+ year old design in the age of stealth aircraft and loyal wingmen; or would you pursue a brand new, future-proof stealth fighter (be it Kaan, F-35 or FC-31)? This is my opinion on the matter btw:
This is why I wasn't sure whether to share it here. Yes, Turkey is trying to find customers/partners and there are indeed many delegations visiting TAI these days; and the Saudis are just one of 'em. There were seperate visits from the NATO chief and the RAF brass some time ago as well, but that doesn't mean they're looking to be a part of the programme.
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red admiral said:
A US provided engine hasn't stopped exports of Gripen etc. previously? Why would it here?
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Since the US have no export equivalent in the class of the Gripen, as such it is irrelevant, but do you think they would harm any potential sales of F-15s to SA by allowing it to use F110 engines?
 
Deino said:
Since the US have no export equivalent in the class of the Gripen, as such it is irrelevant, but do you think they would harm any potential sales of F-15s to SA by allowing it to use F110 engines?
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Are you asking whether they would hinder a possible Kaan deal?

Considering they're trying to prevent the Saudis from forming deep bonds with China and are in a position of relative weakness to them; I'd say yes. They wouldn't want to anger them and push them away like they did to their other allies.
 
snne said:
Are you asking whether they would hinder a possible Kaan deal?

Considering they're trying to prevent the Saudis from forming deep bonds with China and are in a position of relative weakness to them; I'd say yes. They wouldn't want to anger them and push them away like they did to their other allies.
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Yes exactly and I'm pretty sure they will. The US' problem at the moment si, the world is changing and especially states in the ME are not only willing to spend huge amounts of money, but they also do no longer want to depend on the US!

And that's the point: Are they willing to risk their military power by "shifting" towards other sources of equipment and here namely high-end fighters? I think they want, but then the question is, are any potential competitors already that capable and ready to step in? IMO no ... neither the Chinese J-31 is a realistic option (at least not yet) to give up all and Kaan is even more not ready yet.
 
The Kaan is still in prototype testing at present and it will be a few years before the engine is ready, so I think that all Saudi Arabia can do now is to play the waiting game until the definitive Kaan is ready.
 
Deino said:
And that's the point: Are they willing to risk their military power by "shifting" towards other sources of equipment and here namely high-end fighters? I think they want, but then the question is, are any potential competitors already that capable and ready to step in? IMO no ...
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Yes, as evidenced by previous sales of M2000, Tornado, Typhoon, Rafael etc. ... The ME isn't a US monopoly market.

Many of the countries appear to actively buy more than one type in order to facilitate closer links with multiple countries.
 
FighterJock said:
So it looks like Saudi Arabia could well be the first export customer for the Kaan.
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They are, it is part of a defence deal between them and the Turks worth more than 10 billion dollars. They bought Akinci drones, warships, ToT for guided munitions and Kaan.

They were the only foreign dignitaries present at the roll out of Kaan and had multiple meetings with SSB. The fact they were present at change of leadership at TAI is basically a confirmation.

They got into the project before Azerbaijan and Pakistan. The Pakistanis are trying to piggyback on the Saudis because of lack of money.
 
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It isn't. Every sub-manufacturer and raw material suppliers are listed in agreements. They don't go and buy from wherever they want to
 
I would not look at this the same way. See it more like a regional alliance, as if Germany was shopping in UK or Fr for some hardware. And the product is not even bad. We have seen already more disastrous socializing buy. (no name is provided but feel free! ;) )

Anyway, it´s great that Turkey is writing another chapter of its Disney story with drones.
 
Considering that this aircraft will use U.S. engines for the foreseeable future, any attempt to sell this aircraft to a Middle Eastern nation would likely be vetoed by the U.S. due to intense Israel pressure on the grounds that the introduction of such an aircraft would erode their quantitative edge.
 
The foreigners have been made to eat enough dirt with the whole range of programs. Is there any specific reason to link something from 2021 which probably states conformal antennas could not be made in Turkey?
 

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