TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

Proportions said:
This is the subject of Kızılelma unmanned warplane. Not Kaan's plane.
Click to expand...
Well in that case, here's the full quote

Maro.Kyo said:
Just for instance, I don't think Turkey has the capability to develop a full CNI capable SDR with a conformal antenna, let alone just a conformal antenna itself.
Click to expand...

It's suitable for this thread as well as the Turkish UAV thread.
 
In the interests of providing a proper working environment it was stated the jet is not in competition with anything for export sales.

While it is simply an effort for domestic consumption as tomorrow will be the 50th Anniversary of the Peace Operation and a talking point, including the consequences like the arms embargo, followed by political polemic l will also not hesitate to say the current form is being further optimised for scenarios where it will effectively engage F-22/35.

No need to brag, better work.
 
Combat-Master said:
Karat IRST is still in development. They've just moved the thermal and day navigation cameras to the nose. Though it would be nice to see IRST on Kizilelma at some point in its development.
Click to expand...
Yeah and the IRST (on Kizilelma) would require a bigger/wider window anyway.

GPYPcG5WMAAteWz.jpg
 
Last edited:
snne said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1816188607629070547
View: https://x.com/AviationWeek/status/1816188607629070547
Click to expand...
FARNBOROUGH—Turkish Aerospace (TAI) has launched assembly of the next two Kaan combat aircraft prototypes, but supply chain issues are pacing the indigenous program, the company’s new CEO Mehmet Demiroglu says.
Speaking at a press conference on the second day of the Farnborough Airshow—and just five weeks into his tenure as CEO of the OEM, following the departure of Temel Kotil in June—Demiroglu said that supply chain issues around titanium as well as castings and forgings were causing “significant manufacturing delays.”
He said TAI was now working to fix the problems with its suppliers and to help them return to what Demiroglu called the manufacturer’s “normal schedule” of production.
The next two prototypes will be closer to the planned final configuration of Kaan compared with Prototype 0, the aircraft that has so far performed two test flights to much fanfare in Turkey earlier this year. But that aircraft was originally developed simply as a demonstrator capable of taxiing before being subsequently modified to perform several flights.

“It was not meant to fly as it was first built,” Demiroglu said. “But we made lots and lots of changes, so it can fly, it is flying, and it will fly … but we are not going to fly this aircraft as much as we currently fly the Hurjet [jet trainer] prototype.
“We are not going to push this prototype ... the following two prototypes will fly considerably more,” he said.
Ankara has been working on concepts for an indigenous fighter aircraft since the early 2010s under the TF-X program.
Since initial program launch in 2016, Turkish Aerospace has been steadily establishing the ecosystem and facilities to be ready for full-scale development, including building a national supply chain to support it.
The OEM rolled out the prototype during a low-key event on March 18, 2023, before it was formally unveiled in May 2023 in the presence of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. The president formally named the aircraft Kaan and declared it one of the centerpieces of the country’s efforts to establish a national defense industry and become a major defense exporter.
Prototype 0 is currently powered by a pair of General Electric-supplied F110 engines from the F-16, but efforts are underway to develop a national fighter engine. TAI-owned TRMotor and TUSAS Engine Industries (TEI) are already collaborating on the development of the fighter engine, although Demiroglu says this collaboration is not finalized. The indigenous engine partnership will be formalized in the weeks following the Farnborough Airshow, as will collaboration with Ukrainian engine development house Ivchenko Progress.
The Ukrainian company is supporting the engine development effort, Demiroglu said, because it has “walked the road [of engine development] before, and we are trying to reduce the time of development by getting some help.”
Ukraine and Turkey previously signed agreements around engine technology in October 2020, before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Looking ahead, Demiroglu said he was looking forward to cementing his role at the company. He said Turkey has now proved its aerospace credentials with a series of first flights last year of platforms such as the ATAK 2 attack helicopter, the Anka 3 uncrewed aircraft system and the Hurjet trainer.
“It shows that Turkey is capable of designing, manufacturing, testing and flying any platforms that you can think of—any platforms,” Demiroglu said.
His plan is to ensure that the company can manufacture the aircraft and support them “cost-efficiently, with high quality and in a timely manner,” he says.
Click to expand...
 
Early production Kaans to be stationed at 1st MJB Command located in Eskisehir

20_big.jpg
1200px-Eski%C5%9Fehir_in_Turkey.svg.png


The F-16C/D Fighting Falcon combat aircraft, that forms the backbone of the TurAF’s airpower, will be deactivated from service starting from mid 2030s and is to be replaced by Türkiye’s next generation KAAN National Combat Aircraft (abbreviated as MMU in Turkish), also known as TF-X. The 5th Generation KAAN TF-X/MMU will replace both the F-4E 2020 Phantom II all-weather fighter-bombers serving at the 111th Squadron that belong to the 1st Main Jet Base (MJB) Command located in Eskisehir and F-16C/D Fighting Falcon combat aircraft currently in the service of the TurAF during the first quarter of the 2030s.
Click to expand...
https://www.defenceturkey.com/tr/ic...zation-programs-of-the-turkish-air-force-6035
 
Aselsan recently released a promotional video showcasing the IRIS-200 Infrared Missile Warning System, which is generating interest as the upcoming KAAN aircraft is expected to be equipped with the more advanced IRIS-300 system.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbkGK5Sn7rw
1723462539247.png
30 +km detection range
  • Capability to detect all stages of missile flight (eject, boost, sustain, burn-out)
  • Operational day & night
  • High sensitivity in reporting threat approach angles
  • High angular accuracy and resolution
  • High detection probability and low false alarm rate
  • Ability to detect, track, and warn against multiple missile threats simultaneously
  • Ability to capture weak signals
  • Short response time for automatic triggering of countermeasure systems
  • Long detection range
 
Combat-Master said:
30 +km detection range
  • Capability to detect all stages of missile flight (eject, boost, sustain, burn-out)
  • Operational day & night
  • High sensitivity in reporting threat approach angles
  • High angular accuracy and resolution
  • High detection probability and low false alarm rate
  • Ability to detect, track, and warn against multiple missile threats simultaneously
  • Ability to capture weak signals
  • Short response time for automatic triggering of countermeasure systems
  • Long detection range
Click to expand...
That, I'm not so sure of.

The tighter the criteria you have for a "real target", the more likely it is that some real incoming will not quite match the criteria and be culled as "false targets."
 
Is there any first-hand papers accessible, regarding on the subject? Such as preliminary research papers of turbine materials, prototype turbofan cores, etc...

In many cases those could often be found among the publishments from the various academic conferences, but...language barrier is seriously nagging me :(
 
Last edited:
AnonSB said:
Is there any first-hand papers accessible, regarding on the subject? Such as preliminary research papers of turbine materials, prototype turbofan cores, etc...

Those could be found among the publishments from the various academic conferences, but...language barrier is seriously nagging me :(
Click to expand...
No way you can get them. Literally no way
 
AnonSB said:
Is there any first-hand papers accessible, regarding on the subject? Such as preliminary research papers of turbine materials, prototype turbofan cores, etc...

Those could be found among the publishments from the various academic conferences, but...language barrier is seriously nagging me :(
Click to expand...
Following research papers and patent claims is honestly not my strong suit and maybe someone else can come up with more useful info on this topic but this is what I can provide you on a short notice:

TEI's "technology development projects" get posted on this page: https://www.tei.com.tr/en/activity-areas/engine-design-and-product-development

Screenshot 2024-08-17 183543.png

https://www.turkpatent.gov.tr/en/research
https://www.tei.com.tr/en/media/tei-post-en

Screenshot 2024-08-17 183737.png

some of the patents and research papers are occasionally found by the defence community and posted on the English language Defencehub forum in the "TR Propulsion Systems" thread but we get the majority of our news from annual activity reports and C-suite interviews

Aside from that, LinkedIn is also a useful source of information for following what the people @ TEI are actively working on; for example we first found out about the TF-6000 turbofan engine on -unfortunately- LinkedIn

-BUT- they usually keep developments regarding Kaan's engine tightly under wraps
 
Last edited:
Umigami said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1827811153638019583
View: https://x.com/TurkishCentury/status/1827811153638019583?s=19
Click to expand...
1_) TAI already has a local office in Indonesia; in fact, they even contributed to some of the subcomponent designs of the Hürjet.

2_) Even if they are opening a new office, that doesn't necessarily make it newsworthy.

3_) When it comes to the implied Indonesian participation in Kaan, this is just pure delusional speculation without any base at this point and the account that you've randomly quoted is a nobody...

Moreover, this is the same mentality that the Pakistanis have and I hate to break it to you but just because TAI has a local branch in your respective country doesn't mean that you are a part of that programme...

4_) Even if we overlook the legitimacy of the tweet; how can Indonesia field it when they're already commited to not just a large Rafale deal but also to an F-15EX deal that is in the works? How can they not just operate but also bring any value to the Kaan programme; when they can't even commit to the Boramae as planned and have contributed nothing to it.


Don't get this the wrong way dear Umigami, but please be sensible...

And, we don't simply share anything that only remotely involves Kaan in this thread. You gotta first evaluate whether it is truly newsworthy to belong in this thread, before posting it here.

Regards
 
Last edited:
snne said:
Moreover, this is the same mentality that the Pakistanis have and I hate to break it to you but just because TAI has a local branch in your respective country doesn't mean that you are a part of that programme...
Click to expand...
It's Turkish government that offers it to Indonesian elected president

The recent working visit of Defense Minister Prabowo @prabowo to Turkey resulted in a number of defense industry cooperation commitments, including joint development of fifth-generation fighter aircraft, frigate warships and helicopters.

https://www.instagram.com/kemhanri/p/C-9GQynyMrM/?img_index=3
 
Umigami said:
It's Turkish government that offers it to Indonesian elected president

The recent working visit of Defense Minister Prabowo @prabowo to Turkey resulted in a number of defense industry cooperation commitments, including joint development of fifth-generation fighter aircraft, frigate warships and helicopters.

https://www.instagram.com/kemhanri/p/C-9GQynyMrM/?img_index=3
Click to expand...
They offer it to everyone dude, there is almost quite literally no country left on Earth that hasn't been offered partnership but is there any official participation yet? And no, TAI's local offices in SEA are not equal to foreign participation since those teams are working directly within TAI.

"industry cooperation commitments, including joint development of fifth-generation fighter aircraft, frigate warships and helicopters."
Click to expand...

Give me something CONCRETE, these are just empty words. I've been reading similar statements for so long that I'm exhausted from explaining to everyone that a) no, neither Pakistan or Malaysia are not involved in the Kaan 2) is there any official ceremony or is there any serious smoke, are specific words such as "partnership, ToT, company names, deadlines, budget, etc." being thrown around by officials and credible insiders?

Indonesia's commitments with Turkish defence industry are only limited to Hisar-O+ SAMs, Atmaca AShMs, various drones and FNSS's Kaplan medium tank locally produced by Pindad.

----

Obviously this is just wishful thinking on your part but unfortunately for everyone, such thinking doesn't make it become reality.
 
Last edited:
Umigami said:
It's Turkish government that offers it to Indonesian elected president

The recent working visit of Defense Minister Prabowo @prabowo to Turkey resulted in a number of defense industry cooperation commitments, including joint development of fifth-generation fighter aircraft, frigate warships and helicopters.

https://www.instagram.com/kemhanri/p/C-9GQynyMrM/?img_index=3
Click to expand...
Told ya.
Within the scope of the Signing Ceremony held in Indonesia; ASELSAN signed strategic agreements regarding the SARP Remote Controlled Stabilized Weapon System, CENK 4D Search Radar, Artillery Fire Control System and Missile Data Link, while ROKETSAN signed strategic agreements regarding the SUNGUR Air Defense Missile System, ÇAKIR Cruise Missile and MAM-L Mini Smart Munition.Additionally, important Memorandums of Understanding (MoUs) were signed on unmanned surface vehicles, tank modernization and maintenance of missile systems.
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/x/status/1828051382936473951
View: https://x.com/SavunmaSanayiST/status/1828051382936473951
 
snne said:
View attachment 697210

https://m5dergi.com/savunma-haberle...-hava-fuzesi-gokhanin-test-atislari-basliyor/

Used Google for quick translation.
Click to expand...
We may have got a name drop of the RF seeker of the mystery liquid-fuel ramjet BVR missile:
An Rf seeker called AGRAS-200AA is being developed for a new BVR missile project with a longer range than Gökdoğan
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/x/status/1835689930124574795
View: https://x.com/T_Nblty/status/1835689930124574795
 
Deino said:
To admit, as long as the political situation does not change, I hope Germany will block any sale of the EJ-200. :(
Click to expand...
I also wish so :) 40 new and 79 modded F-16V (along with 150 F-16 Özgür) would fill the interim/stopgap modernization need of the AF well enough especially when supplemented with some LO drones (Kizilelma + Anka 3) until Kaan gets inducted into service (whenever that may be).

You simply don't need to procure new F-15EXs or Eurofighters and wait 4-5 years for delivery on top of that. It's because the Air Force is simply too late to place an order for foreign (stopgap) fighters when indigenous solutions for their problem will become available in that same timeframe.
 
Last edited:
snne said:
I also wish so :) 40 new and 79 modded F-16V (along with 150 F-16 Özgür) would fill the interim/stopgap modernization need of the AF well enough especially when supplemented with some LO drones (Kizilelma + Anka 3) until Kaan gets inducted into service (whenever that may be).

You simply don't need to procure new F-15EXs or Eurofighters and wait 4-5 years for delivery on top of that. It's because the Air Force is simply too late to place an order for foreign (stopgap) fighters when indigenous solutions for their problem will become available in that same timeframe.
Click to expand...
100¹⁰⁰ times agree.

But I guess Air force is aware of this too and rumours that they will get the slot of Qatari orders
 
Latest update (from an another Saudi visit, in fact:().

The P0 demo plane is due to make an another flight within the year but intensive testing is going to begin with the roll out of P1 and P2 by next year.

GZ24Pd-WMAMeKnS.jpeg

First delivery target by 2028 gives it 3 years for intensive testing, this is still a bit ambitious for my taste but considering the threat risks involved for the AF, it can't get inducted soon enough...
 
Last edited:
The first launching tests of the ramjet-propelled long-range air-to-air missile GÖKHAN, which is under development under the Prime Contractorship of TÜBİTAK SAGE, are expected to be carried out in 2025. However, in order to see the real performance of GÖKHAN, the MURAD AESA Nose Radar, which has a long detection range capability, must also be ready. Because the AN/APG-68 series radars on F-16s will be insufficient in terms of performance for a missile like GÖKHAN. GÖKHAN, which is announced to be able to reach speeds close to Mach 5, will feature the ASELSAN product AGRAS-200AA Active RF Seeker Head.
Click to expand...
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ibrahim-sünnetci-b2951544_tübi̇tak-sage-ana-yükleniciliğinde-geliştirme-activity-7252627678246174720-Pvcl?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios

If anyone's curious, here's more info on the mentioned missile along with the existing ones: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/tai-tf-x-milli-muharip-uçak-mmu-kaan.13448/post-657692
 
Last edited:
This thread is locked, at least temporarily. Terrorristic attacks with losses of live, are sad, but cannot be a theme in this thread, which quite clearly is about the TAI TF-X.
Such attacks always have political aspects, and I think, you know the forum rules ?
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom