TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

FighterJock said:
Interesting development Waterballoon, is there any info about the new engine released or is it too early.
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There are no specs but this is the best image we have.

From the looks of it it's a typical 3/6/1/1 turbofan with a low BPR. The latest official news about the engine is from May last year: "We have largely completed the performance analyzes and cycle analyzes that will determine the first general configuration of the engine. The detailed design work of the engine has now started"
 
There have been some notable changes in the cockpit.

GHSiJuGWcAAVcho
 
Next time a new fighter comes out I’m gonna make a bingo game with the following entries:

1) length, wing span, height or other dimensions.
2) empty weight.
3) engine thrust/thrust to weight
4) eye ball RCS
5) number of missiles carried internally and whether my schlong range is marginally longer than the other guy’s.
6) radome aperture size. The bigger the better.
7) If the display is one piece and how big it is (I’m starting to see a pattern here).
8) If the argument goes on for longer than three pages it is automatic bingo.
9) bonus bingo if people argue about the role of the aircraft.

Seriously though in over a decade people have not change one bit…
 
siegecrossbow said:
Next time a new fighter comes out I’m gonna make a bingo game with the following entries:

1) length, wing span, height or other dimensions.
2) empty weight.
3) engine thrust/thrust to weight
4) eye ball RCS
5) number of missiles carried internally and whether my schlong range is marginally longer than the other guy’s.
6) radome aperture size. The bigger the better.
7) If the display is one piece and how big it is (I’m starting to see a pattern here).
8) If the argument goes on for longer than three pages it is automatic bingo.
9) bonus bingo if people argue about the role of the aircraft.

Seriously though in over a decade people have not change one bit…
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Only reason I care about T:W is how it interacts with fuel load, since we know that most modern fighters are designed to have a 1:1 T:W at roughly half their fuel load.
 
siegecrossbow said:
Next time a new fighter comes out I’m gonna make a bingo game with the following entries:

1) length, wing span, height or other dimensions.
2) empty weight.
3) engine thrust/thrust to weight
4) eye ball RCS
5) number of missiles carried internally and whether my schlong range is marginally longer than the other guy’s.
6) radome aperture size. The bigger the better.
7) If the display is one piece and how big it is (I’m starting to see a pattern here).
8) If the argument goes on for longer than three pages it is automatic bingo.
9) bonus bingo if people argue about the role of the aircraft.

Seriously though in over a decade people have not change one bit…
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Don't forget that prototypes/technology demonstrators must be equal or better than inservice US "5th gen" aircraft or they are immediately a waste of time to their country and inferior products which should be stopped.
 
latest footage published by Tusaş, there are images from the production process of KAAN's prototype.
Video
 

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8tons?! (see load spreader max capacity).

If they had a 1.2 safety factor, that makes the empty airframe without engine, systems and accessories (but landing gear) at 6.5t.

Not bad at all.

As a comparison, equipped F-16 fuselage seems to use two spreaders rated, probably, each at 7000lb (hence 14000lb), what translates to 5.6t, after adding the same safety factor.

Screenshot_20240228_124703.jpg
 
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And without wings/underside of fuselage as they appear to have been separately moved into its assembly cradle.
 
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Well obviously not as in the video you see it being moved with the wheels down but no wing attached on the left (11 secs) and a separate nose/canopy fuselage section to the wing/rear fuselage section. At 7 secs you can see them working on a underside of wing and partial engine cowling pane and 9-10 secs seems to be assembling then doing a test fit of one of the tails to the fuselage.
 
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lnx476 said:
latest footage published by Tusaş, there are images from the production process of KAAN's prototype.
Video
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It's a must watch! The video includes a lot of snippets from Kaan's assembly.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1762704142223516117
View: https://twitter.com/TUSAS_TR/status/1762704142223516117?t=vapvKAuKjLbsf6Q5h6bFBQ&s=19


When they produced the first component of Kaan, a well known newspaper had criticized it, calling it a "radiator".

65d59f93d0477847__w1200xh1079.jpg

So basically this is TAI sticking it to those idiots two years later.
 
snne said:
It's a must watch! The video includes a lot of snippets from Kaan's assembly.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1762704142223516117
View: https://twitter.com/TUSAS_TR/status/1762704142223516117?t=vapvKAuKjLbsf6Q5h6bFBQ&s=19


When they produced the first component of Kaan, a well known newspaper had criticized it, calling it a "radiator".

View attachment 721249

So basically this is TAI sticking it to those idiots two years later.
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KAAN aka "Kalorifer Peteği"(radiator) gave a nice answer to everyone who underestimated him
 
WatcherZero said:
Well obviously not as in the video you see it being moved with the wheels down but no wing attached on the left (11 secs) and a separate nose/canopy fuselage section to the wing/rear fuselage section. At 7 secs you can see them working on a underside of wing and partial engine cowling pane and 9-10 secs seems to be assembling then doing a test fit of one of the tails to the fuselage.
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That's not "wing" that's the elevator. What you see at 0:11 is also the elevator hinge. That empty space is where the elevator sits. The wings and center fuselage are produced as monoblock. MMU's jigs were actually shown in a video about Hürjet last year.
 
It appears TAI bought a second hand Global 6000 to use it a testbed for Kaan.

Ibrahim Sunnetci

DEFENCE TURKEY Magazine Chief Writer
Canada's Ambassador to Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan,
Kevin HAMILTON, in a post on his social media account
Twitter today, shared that the aircraft with tail number 9871 and
TC-SJC is one of the 4 aircraft (9854, 9855, 9869 and 9871)
purchased from the Canadian Bombardier company within
the scope of the HAVA SOJ Program. He shared an image
of the registered Bombardier Global 6000 Business Jet taken
at TAI facilities. TAI also purchased a second-hand
Bombardier Global 6000 Business Jet, which was factory-made in
2015 and had flown in the USA with the N10HD tail registration,
in 2023 to modify it for Test Bed (KAAN MMU/TF-X
Programme). ASELSAN completed the Factory Acceptance
Tests (FAT) of the mission system to be installed on the first HAVA
SOJ Aircraft (Bombardier Global 6000 Business Jet with
tail number 9854) in December 2023, and the certification
procedures were expected to be completed as of
February 4. After the certification procedures are completed,
HAVA SOJ Mission System consoles and electronic equipment
will begin to be installed on the first aircraft. ASELSAN aims
to complete the FAT process of the mission systems and
payloads to be used in the 2nd and 3rd HAVA SOJ Aircraft by
the end of 2024. According to the information I have
obtained, a change will be made only regarding the new
generation MİLSİS ELINT Pod, which will be carried
under the wing on HAVA SOJ Aircraft. Completion of
deliveries under the HAVA SOJ Project by 2028
targeted.
GHcJI5iWEAA9iRf
GHarb5AWcAA1gyT
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TomcatViP said:
8tons?! (see load spreader max capacity).

If they had a 1.2 safety factor, that makes the empty airframe without engine, systems and accessories (but landing gear) at 6.5t.

Not bad at all.

As a comparison, equipped F-16 fuselage seems to use two spreaders rated, probably, each at 7000lb (hence 14000lb), what translates to 5.6t, after adding the same safety factor.
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Kaan is hung under two load spreaders as well.
No way it's only 16% heavier than an F-16.
 
ahmettasci said:
It seems some avionics used in the first flight were not indigenous. I am wondering if the flight controller is Italian like Hurjet.
View attachment 721481

https://twitter.com/x/status/1763468592777941105
View: https://x.com/tubitakbilgem/status/1763468592777941105?s=20
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"used in the first flight and are under development" doesn't mean they used foreign equipment in stead. None of those equipments are fully developed yet until the aircraft itself passes all tests and the serial production begins, that's why that's the language being used here.

What you said is valid for Hurjet though since they wanted it to fly a lot earlier than Kaan but acc. to multiple statements from many high-ranking people in charge, including the head engineer himself; only the ejection seat, some valves and the engines are foreign on the current prototype. If their words don't mean something, then I don't know whose actually does.

Edit:

Flight Control and (drones?)Aircraft Control Computers, Antenna Test System, Mission control computer, High Speed Network System, EMC Test System.

These are the components that are yet to be integrated and are still under deveelopment.

Let me tell you this. The prototype that flew was supposed to be a ground test article, it is currently used to test a limited envelope of the aircraft's flight characteristics until P1 rolls out; it is essentially a technology demonstrator. It is not a combat capable aircraft yet. It doesn't need most of these at this stage of its development. The first flight was merely a couple of days ago.

Edit #2:

In case what I said doesn't convince you, here's what someone else said in an another forum:
You can't fly this fully digital aircraft without a flight computer and you can't buy a flight computer from somewhere and fly your aircraft with it. It doesn't work that way. Probably an early version or another flight computer that is enough to make the first flight is used while the flight computer that will have the full capability is in development.

NRFRT means Near Field Rcs Test Facility. It is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the first flight. It will be ready this year.

EMC test system has nothing to do with the first flight.

A mission computer is not needed for a first flight it is evident that this aircraft is neither mission-ready nor carries any mission-specific sensors like a radar.

I think the high-speed network is self-explanatory it is not going to use network capability anytime soon.
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It doesnt need a mission computer, because it is not combat capable

It doesnt need high speed network because it is not a demo for MUM-T

NFRTF is a near-field RCS test system, EMC test system is needed for later stages, like fitting of EW systems and AESA arrayy etc
 
Well, Tubitak did not list indigenous flight controller under the list of components Kaan flew with (the ones on the left). There is no point trying to bend the truth.

The tweet is quite clear to me, I understand why it may not be for others. I wanted to post here for possible future disputes. Make of that tweet what you will.
 
FighterJock said:
Forget that it is not that big as the J-20.
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There's a saying in Turkish that roughly translates to "A madman threw a stone into the well, but forty wise men couldn't get it out."

Someone shared this false scale comparison and everyone on Turkish miltwitter took it for real for some reason(maybe they have a size fetish or smth?). Look at it, even the same nozzles have different sizes. And F119 is not that small either.

In reality, Kaan is only a meter longer than F-22 and although F-22 has larger wings, they have the same wing area. But someone out of touch would think Kaan is as large as a Flanker according to this false comparison.
 
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FighterJock said:
Though I do wonder what the Radar Cross Section is of the KAAN compared to say the J-20 after all physical size is not everything.
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Well acc. to open source analysis, J-20's frontal RCS is actually pretty low and close to F-35, however beginning from +60° horizontal, J-20's RCS starts to increase. @stealthflanker

average-rcs-2.png
average-rcs.png
median-rcs.png
capture-6.png


https://basicsaboutaerodynamicsanda...vs-su-57-radar-scattering-simulation-summary/

Turkey had an important industrial participation in the F-35/JSF programme and Kaan has overall pretty clean lines, so my expectations are a bit high for Block 20. I'd still consider Block 10 (early delivery model) to be LO and somewhere in between current Su-57 and J-20 production aircraft (not J-20A though), however it could develop into a pretty competitive 5th gen fighter with Block 20(VLO).

Kaan Block 0/GTU-0/P0 (tech demonstrator):

tfx-side-view-png.65823


P:S. The image I'm attaching below is from a slide during an Anatolian Eagle '21 presentation to foreign personnel, and the aircraft has evolved significantly since then. It's important to note that the figures shown below were the minimum requirements of TurAF during that period and that requirement may have pretty well changed; we also don't know the details regarding the given numbers, i.e. from which sectors are the given figures from, are they for the first delivery block or the second, etc. ...


TF-X-MMU-Radar-Kesit-Alani.jpg


Anyway, I think it is still way too early to talk about RCS yet, the aircraft has just made its maiden flight recently and there's still a long road ahead before it gets delivered and gets improved upon the base block.
 
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Any ideas as to what the rather big air to air missile is? A long range missile? Or is it Turkeys equivalent to the Meteor?
 
FighterJock said:
Any ideas as to what the rather big air to air missile is? A long range missile? Or is it Turkeys equivalent to the Meteor?
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This:

gokdogan.jpg


snne said:
Their names were mentioned just to give the audience some idea (mind the parenthesis), the bays are designed around Bozdogan(WVR,, AIM-9XBII equivalent), Gökdogan(BVR, AIM-210C7 equivalent) and Gökhan (Liquid fuel ramjet, Meteor equivalent) missiles.

These indigenous missiles are also not just some copies, while they might look alike, they are thicker than their American equivalents as an example and they also happen to have dual pulse capabilities. They are also launched from the same rails and fed information from the same radar, so it makes sense that they would look similar to American missiles.


https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/co...-test-of-bozdogan-wvr-air-to-air-missile-4490
https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/content/bozdagan-gokdogan-missiles-enter-serial-production-5736

The quoted ranges are open to some speculation though. Army and the Air Force usually give NEZ or (at least near-NEZ ranges) as official figures(this part has been confirmed), and this would be in line with these missiles' and their equivalents' capabilities. But they are never going to publish top secret data though.

maxresdefault.jpg

GOKDOGAN-BOZDOGAN.jpg

60770ea1d2237.jpg


Anyway, I hope I managed to clarify some things or at least informed you a little.
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Meteor equivalent is still under development, but IMHO the tests might have begun or may begin soon; it is kept tightly under wraps
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1768828976577831424
View: https://x.com/KeremHok/status/1768828976577831424?s=20


I too watched the show to confirm and he does indeed say what is written in tweet.


"-The first plane will continue flying and fire munitions.
-Our main goal is to make the planes we call Blok10. We are manufacturing them now. There will be 6 of them.-We have 2 planes that we will use for static tests. Meanwhile, Iron Bird is coming.
-We test all systems over and over again.
-We will also fire weapons, while this work will continue.
-Domestic engine coming in 2028."
 

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