• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Swimmer Delivery Vehicle projects, old and new

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
I'm planning to share information on a bunch of unknown SDV/midget submarine/DPV/Canoes etc via my blog (http://www.hisutton.com/) and thought i should also post here for the community. Rather than start fresh threads each time I'll just update this one. And I hope it can also be a general discussion of SDV (et al) projects.

SDVs are not necessarily 'secret projects' in the classic sense but they are very secret in other ways so information available on the internet and in books is very limited. I am on a quest to change that, at least in regards to the historic types. And i like to think that by sharing the info it might make more people interested in this under-represented military topic. It's worth a try!
  • Some of the SDVs are somewhat known and information will not be particularly new
  • Some of the SDVs are hardly known and the information will be substantially known
  • Some of them are as good as unknown and the information will be very new, even exclusive
  • Some are current (including unknown ones!!!) and some are historic
_____________________________________________
Naval Spetsnaz in Hybrid Warfare

Illustrated analysis of near-term Russian maritime Special Forces underwater vehicles and capabilities - full article at http://www.hisutton.com/Naval%20Spetsnaz%20in%20Hybrid%20Warfare.html

spetsnaz_header.jpg

(The frog and bat symbol is associated with Naval Spetsnaz)


With the annexation of the Crimea to the recent submarine scare in Sweden, Russian special forces have come under renewed focus. Irrespective of whether Naval Spetsnaz have been involved in any operations during the ‘Hybrid War’, their capabilities are among those best suited to this kind of operating environment. Hybrid warfare is an evolution of earlier indirect, proxy and covert wars. It is a way of expanding territory and pushing geopolitical agendas with every means possible up to the point of an overt military action. Inevitably the enemy will be attacked in multiple ways simultaneously creating a complex and often contradictory situation which plays out in he aggressor's favor. Many of these attacks will be obvious and hard to deny, but crucially they will all be denied. It can therefore include substantial troop movements as long as there is some degree of deniability so that it's one power's word against another. In practice it is to attack by a mixture of special forces, information campaigns and back door proxies. And by means of sending an army 'on holiday' to another country.


As people research information about Russian Naval Special Forces much of what is shared is out of date. This article seeks to sort through the chaff and present as up to date view as is practical. It is based on public information (albeit mostly obscure) with a certain amount of deduction thrown in to paint a picture of these forces underwater vehicles.

Rest of article at http://www.hisutton.com/Naval%20Spetsnaz%20in%20Hybrid%20Warfare.html



Russian PROTON family of modular diver propulsion device/SDV. Not particularly secret but very little info in English. Probably main DPV of Spetsnaz.
Spetsnaz_Proton2000.jpg

He's wearing an IDA71 Rebreather and carrying an ADS amphibious assault rifle

proton-modular.jpg

proton_modular_torp.png
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
Soviet midget submarine 'gap' of early 1950s.

A couple of years before the 'bomber gap' and the 'missile gap', western analysts were concerned that the Soviets out-gunned them in midget submarines. Unlike the other two 'gaps' this was not plastered all over the press, but like them it turned out to be wrong. I came across this in archive research, and I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere so this might be exclusive.

D.N.I would like to stress the importance of this function, particularly the need to exercise the defenses of N.A.T.O. ports. Not only did the Russians acquire some 50-70 ex-German, Italian and Japanese midget submarines after the war, but it seems likely that they have produced their own post-war version, which, from reports, seems to incorporate parts from the design of all above. There are also reports which indicate training in midget S/Ms in the Soviet Navy at the present time.

Some more, including a theory of why they thought this....
http://www.hisutton.com/Secret%20History%20-%20the%20Soviet%20submarine%20gap.html
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
Ah, sharp guy ;D

That was the 'super-difficult' one I threw in, I think that only a tiny subset of SEALs connected people who have even heard of that let alone recognize it.

It was a secret military project by OSS in the war. The guy who rediscovered it is a former SEAL officer.

I am only aware of one book which includes it at all (review here www.hisutton.com/Book%20Review%20-%20NSW%20US%20Navy%20SEALs.html) - great book, the closet thing to an official SEALs book there is, very substantial.

It's among the many forgotten Sneak craft I will cover in my book, so hopefully awareness will grow. :)
 

shaba

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
124
Reaction score
2
Thanks now i have to find the monney to buy your book.
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
borderline secret project, more secretive kit. Not something advertised beyond the defense sector - IS-MIX mixed-gas semi-closed rebreather http://www.hisutton.com/IS-MIX%20advanced%20mixed-gas%20rebreather.html. Interesting technology.
10683922_694861490595970_1753815663_n.jpg
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
Finally gotr around to putting some info on the MAREX Type-A series 'unknown' SDV projects on the blog http://www.hisutton.com/SDV%20History%20-%20Lesser%20known%20Anglo-French%20projects.html

MAREX A2
Marex_A2_model.jpg

Marex_A2_plan.jpg


MAREX A5
Marex_A5.jpg


MAREX / COMEX 'Total-sub 01
Marex_TotalSub1_940.jpg
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
Just got around to posting another 'unknown' to the blog http://www.hisutton.com/SDV%20History%20-%20US%20Closed-Cycle%20Energy%20Source%20SDV%20project.html

Perry Offshore Inc. Closed-Cycle Energy Source (CCES) SDV design from 1980s. Early days of ASDS program.

My attempt at an illustration (only seen a side-profile cutaway,which is on the blog)
8vLan5R.jpg
 

muttbutt

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
253
Reaction score
71
HS, Have they managed to sell any Sphyrene SDVs yet?

PS you mind if I fire this up on the SDV thread over on milphotos?
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
I don't think that they have sold any yet, but definitely a serious competitor on the export market, especially where French SSKs are involved. They only revealed it in 2014 and it's taken some time and outside help for me to disentangle this type from the competitor SWUV design.
And they would likely have to be decinflicted with the rival SWUV design in the market as sales would often be via French government in one way or another.
And all these latest generation large SDVs are extremely expensive compared to older types so their market is restricted to big-budget customers. Bearing in mind that the SEALs and SBS both went through years of financial neglect that equation is more about investment in the capability than overal naval spend of a country.

Other than the very limited info on the Alsemar website and some unwitting photos from marketing videos I think my website is currently the only place to find info on this SDV project. Hopefully that will change, but nice to be the first to reveal stuff however niche. :)


Re SDV thread, no problem at all. I'm perm banned from military photos (for no valid reason of course. Muppets). Please give a courtesy link to my blog as it is proving useful with people contacting me with info (as has happened with the Sphyrene!). The more people wander into my project to document SDV and related diving/special forces history the better!
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
Started an index of SDVs, http://www.hisutton.com/pages/SDVs%20and%20Subs%20index.html

some recent American desgns from The Columbia Group which have pedigree from the SDV Mk.VIII Mod1. I have much better stuff about their (never before seen on the internet) current line-up but will take time to create articles
USN_SDVX_cgi.jpg

USN_SDVX1.jpg

USN_SDVX_piranha1.jpg

USN_SDVX_cockpit1.jpg
 

shedofdread

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
474
Reaction score
120
One presumes you're familiar with the SEAL Pod from James Fisher Defence? http://jfdefence.com/sealpod/index.php


Had a look at one at DSEI - utterly terrified me the idea of travelling in such a thing.
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
One's presumptions would not be unduly presumptuous. ;)

Cheers though. Great firm, great products, definitely top tier of SDV know-how.

which model did you see at DSEI that scared you so much? (guessing the Sub-SEAL, which would hav been labelled SDV(X) at the time)
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
French firm ECA have been displaying their Special Warfare Underwater Vehicle (SWUV) again. http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2448

Info does not seem to have changed. The third smaller set of sliding covers, nearest the back, would be the storage area....
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
The Columbia Group's Proteus optionally manned SDV. Six man wet-sub design, probably the most advanced in the world. More info and pics http://www.hisutton.com/Proteus%20SDV.html

The mini-torpedoes are probably an unbuilt project - I think that the University of Philadelphia developed them.

The other likely project is the USN's Sea Predator concept which seems to fit the proteus exactly. Not sure how far the funding went though.

PIp1l2d.jpg

Key:
A. Sliding canopy (forward compartment)
B. Sliding canopy (aft compartment)
C. Low-drag 'X' form tail configuration
D. External stores rail
E. Large limpet mine assembly (LAM)
F. Weapons tube
G. Combat Rapid Attack Weapon (CRAW) / Common Very Light Weight Torpedo (CVLWT) ASW torpedo
H. 533mm (21") Mobile mine
1. Obstacle Avoidance Snar (OAS)
2. Forward trim tank
3. Horizontal thrusters
4. Vertical thruster
5. Forward cargo / passenger compartment
6. Air flasks for onboard breathing system
7. Folding mast (x2)
8. Aft cargo / passenger compartment
9. Aft trim tank
10. Horizontal thruster
11. Vertical thruster
12. Electric motor
13. Quiet propeller
14. Navigation sphere
15. Lithium Polymer batteries
16. Automatic ballast system
17. Central cargo area bomb bay doors
18. Lithium Polymer batteries
 

TomS

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
4,608
Reaction score
1,747
CVLWT seems to eb an outgrwoth of Penn State ARL's hard-kill torpedo defense efforts, with Ultra Electronics as an industrial partner:

http://www.ultra-os.com/torpedo.php#Anchor-CVLWT
CVLWT is a small multi mission capable torpedo weapon. It requires broadband high power sonar in a compact, energy efficient package to yield a vehicle that can overwhelm enemy homing sonars and have enough range to lead hostile torpedoes away from their targets.

It is under development by NAVSEA PMS415 as the Anti-Torpedo Torpedo variant. Penn State University/Applied Research Laboratory, the design agent has performed extensive in water tests with Ultra’s acoustic nose array. The CVLWT is the transformational weapon needed for Autonomous Distributed Netted Sensor ASW and Torpedo Defense. Ultra is committed to leading the defense industry as the USN demands these new capabilities. We stand ready to build the ATT variant when the opportunity is announced.
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
Would be interesting to know if the CVLWT is applicable to the standard 533mm tubes on submarines.


A brief article on a wartime SDV project. http://www.hisutton.com/The%20World%20War%20Two%20SDV%20called%20Sleeping%20Beauty.html I haven't included any of the 'unbuilt project' aspects (there are many) but might be interesting to WW2 buffs
 

TomS

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
4,608
Reaction score
1,747
Probably not. CVLWT appears to be sized to fit the 6.25-inch ADC Mk 3/4 countermeasures tubes on USN submarines, however.
 

muttbutt

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
253
Reaction score
71
Posted already in the naval section but I think it's ok here too due to it's (not)DDS and SDV..

1631263_-_main.jpg





A computer-generated image of a Chinese nuclear-powered submarine (SSN) has recently appeared on both news and social media websites. It illustrates a variant of the Type 093/Shang-class SSN carrying a docking hangar for a special forces swimmer delivery vehicle (SDV).
The accompanying text indicates the hangar can accommodate only about 2/3 of the length of the SDV (which it compares with the US Mk VIII SDV) and so remains flooded when the vehicle is docked. Consequently, as transfer of personnel to the SDV cannot easily be achieved with the submarine dived, the graphic shows SF personnel being transferred to the submarine by helicopter. The article refers to this as a wet-deck system and the SSN variant as a Type 093T.

The illustration also shows four panels on the side of the submarine that appear to represent sonar flank arrays and also a deployment tube above the upper rudder that would be used for streaming a towed array, as in Russian submarines.
The accompanying text also highlights that a six-bladed conventional propeller is illustrated rather than one with seven blades, which it states is fitted to the Type 093 and 093A, or the shrouded propulsor, which it claims is fitted to the Type 093B.

The explanation given is that the Type 093T is designed to operate in coastal waters where there is likely to be a high level of fishing vessel activity, and ingested trawl wires are easier to clear from a conventional propeller than a propulsor. It also states that the seven-bladed propellers were too thin and susceptible to damage.
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
Interesting. The door on the side with large external hydrallics says that the 'wet shelter' description is BS. That's a DDS.
 

TomS

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
4,608
Reaction score
1,747
Yeah, there is a bunch of text that doesn't make sense. For example, the helicopter obviously has nothing to do with getting swimmers to the SDV.
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
So the original text is tosh, but the development is intersting. Probably there is a real SDV program behind this, it is certainly well within chinese capabilities to develop something similar to the SDV Mk.VIII

I know that they produce and operate various DPVs, including a copy of the Stidd DPD (unsure whether it's in service) but have never seen anything re SDVs.

Limited what we can deduce from the illustration but suggests they follow the U.S./british DDS model rather than the French style (which even the French are moving from).
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
A brief overview of South Korean chariot-layout SDVs including the complex link to Italian firm Cos.Mo.S and the elusive CE3F:

http://www.hisutton.com/Vogo%20Chariot%20SDVs.html

K3Fip6H.jpg
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
Added info page on the SEAL's next-gen SDV (project under USSOCOM) the SWCS: http://www.hisutton.com/US%20Navy%20SEALs%20next%20generation%20SDV%20Mk.XI%20(SWCS).html
RpiWmIP.jpg

QNpfvxr.jpg
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
Just discovered another bunch of unknown Cold War SDVs, some experimental, some unbuilt, some just secret. Coming soon folks.
 

muttbutt

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
253
Reaction score
71
That's some nice stuff HS B)

I wonder are the lads at the GOI writing letters to Santa asking for something similar... ;D
 

fightingirish

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,461
Reaction score
943
covert_shores,
just bookmarked your website!
Keep up the good work!
B) :)
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
muttbutt said:
That's some nice stuff HS B)

I wonder are the lads at the GOI writing letters to Santa asking for something similar... ;D
Yes she's a beauty. The Incusori don't use DDS and have their own secret toys so they wouldn't have a requirement for this exact spec, but she'd be a good edition to any Navy IMO. The main down side is that she only transports four men which is the same as last generation SDVs. I suppose that she could be used in cache mode to put all six men ashore but she's an expensive cache.


fightingirish << cheers. I'll try to bro, I'll try.
 

Creative

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
241
Reaction score
7
That Button 5.60 sure looks interesting. Visually reminds me of the Moray TV-1A.
 

covert_shores

Research + illustration
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
703
Reaction score
164
Website
www.hisutton.com
Actually the Moray has some connection to recent US SDVs after the Mk.VIII Mod-0, which was developed at the same location. The annular air flasks for example are a feature of certain types.

And here's another interesting comparison, more so with the Moray than the Button. Bit of a tease, not sure if this is a known project or not. yet.
3tvsNAv.jpg
 

muttbutt

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
253
Reaction score
71
covert_shores said:
muttbutt said:
That's some nice stuff HS B)

I wonder are the lads at the GOI writing letters to Santa asking for something similar... ;D
Yes she's a beauty. The Incusori don't use DDS and have their own secret toys so they wouldn't have a requirement for this exact spec, but she'd be a good edition to any Navy IMO. The main down side is that she only transports four men which is the same as last generation SDVs. I suppose that she could be used in cache mode to put all six men ashore but she's an expensive cache.
Yep, I think the larger sized dry subs are probably out of budget and too large for most navies especially those with no SSN's.
I'm guessing we'd be far more likely to see this sized DS strapped onto an Aussie Collins boat, Type-212 etc then the larger MSUB UOES-2.
This might be better suited to the market even with the smaller swimmer load.
Better 4 guys getting there warm and dry and bushytailed then 8 guys trying to do a job in open SDVs, especially in the Arctic etc.
 

Similar threads

Top