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Spanish/Egyptian HA-300 supersonic fighter project

martinbayer

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You could try the phone numbers in the links below:

http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/cs/company-profile.Adel_Makhlouf.a224d68406c21099.html

http://kreuztal.stadtbranchenbuch.com/2381177.html

Martin
 

thebig C

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Hey Gang

Wow....I'd read a little about this project but I'd never realised just how small it actually was. Whilst its size may have restricted combat capacity somewhat, that should have been more then negated by lower running and maintenance costs. Likewise one would imagine that, once initial development costs were taken into account this aircraft would have been fairly cheap to produce. I guess its one of those countless projects that "should" have succeeded. Afterall, in the 60s there was a stated desire by quite a few Air Forces for a supersonic light strike fighter, that's what the F-5 was designed to be afterall as was the Mig-21.

Given the fact that India was later to cooperate with Egypt arising from difficulties sourcing a suitable engine for the HF-24 Marut, its something of a shame that the Brandner E-300 was found wanting. The HA-300 and HF-24, power by a common power-plant, could have been a decent light fighter/fighter bomber duo.

C
 

Petrus

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I've just read "Hispano Suiza in Aeronautics", in which there is a chapter on the HA-300. At least twice an issue of drop tanks is being mentioned there:

Tactical patrol, air surveillance, and escort missions with longer ranges can be carried out with additional jettisonable tanks.
As regards the range of the interceptor, there are
two options, depending on the possible use of the
auxiliary tanks (tip-tanks).
My understanding is the HA-300 would have had two wing-tip tanks. If so external ordnance (Sidewinder missiles, bombs or rockets) should have been located under its wings.
Elsewhere the book says the auxilary tanks were to hold 500 kg fuel, so each would have had capacity of 300 ltr (which is an equivalent of 250 kg roughly).

What do you think on that?

Piotr
 

palg

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I never knew there was a 1/48 scale kit.

Has anyone bought the 1/72 scale kit from Germany ?

http://classic-plane-mrr.de/

After investing some effort in establishing contact with the manafacturer in 2008 , I didnt end up actually purchasing it, but have regretted it.

Is the 1.48 kit by a different maker ?
 

thebig C

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Petrus said:
I've just read "Hispano Suiza in Aeronautics", in which there is a chapter on the HA-300. At least twice an issue of drop tanks is being mentioned there:

Tactical patrol, air surveillance, and escort missions with longer ranges can be carried out with additional jettisonable tanks.
As regards the range of the interceptor, there are
two options, depending on the possible use of the
auxiliary tanks (tip-tanks).
My understanding is the HA-300 would have had two wing-tip tanks. If so external ordnance (Sidewinder missiles, bombs or rockets) should have been located under its wings.
Elsewhere the book says the auxilary tanks were to hold 500 kg fuel, so each would have had capacity of 300 ltr (which is an equivalent of 250 kg roughly).

What do you think on that?

Piotr
You can take that any number of ways......either the wingtip tanks gave additional range as a bonus or else its range without them was dreadful (Or fuel burn was excessive).

C
 

topspeed3

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thebig C said:
You can take that any number of ways......either the wingtip tanks gave additional range as a bonus or else its range without them was dreadful (Or fuel burn was excessive).

C
What is dreadful in kilometers or hours ?
 

lion1984

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Ferdinand Brandner in 70 years with E-300 went to the Chinese, like Chinese aviation industry is not particularly interested in, but there are invited as a visiting professor lectures, :p
 

GTX

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Found on web:





Not sure if entirely accurate as it appears to be a modified MiG-21 cutaway with some Mirage III additions. Happy to be proven wrong or right on this.
 

elmayerle

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The front end does look off a Mirage III as the HA-300 did not have the variable inlets, at least not in any pictures I've seen, but, rather, simple pitot inlets which would suit the speed range it was capable of (under Mach 2).
 

Antonio

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Motocar is an aircraft fan who produces fake amateur cutaways and posts it in a military argentinian forum. I can't remember the name
 

Petrus

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hesham said:
Hi,


also from LA FANA June 2010,Messerschmitt HA-300 origins and P.300.
Are you sure that you've posted a correct issue number of the "Le Fana"? I have the "Juin 2010" (No. 487) issue in front of me and I cannot see any article on the P.300/Ha-300.
 

borovik

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This information is from the magazine LeFana de l'Aviation HS42 / Horse serie №42
pp : 104-127
Are you sure that you've posted a correct issue number of the "Le Fana"? I have the "Juin 2010" (No. 487) issue in front of me and I cannot see any article on the P.300/Ha-300.[/size]
 

Petrus

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borovik said:
This information is from the magazine LeFana de l'Aviation HS42 / Horse serie №42
pp : 104-127
Are you sure that you've posted a correct issue number of the "Le Fana"? I have the "Juin 2010" (No. 487) issue in front of me and I cannot see any article on the P.300/Ha-300.
Thank you very much indeed.
 

hesham

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Hi,


here is the early impression about HA-300,from Flying Review.
 

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Spook

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A Hispano HA-300P model on display in Future Pavilion,Sevilla, Spain

https://www.flickr.com/photos/23455629@N08/5025623016/

Ardavan
 

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Motocar

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Saludos a los amigos del foro y en especial este tema, hace tiempo soy miembro del mismo aunque no he participado anteriormente aunque lo intente, observe una de mis modificaciones y lei en el tema que mi trabajo son de un fan de los "Cutaways" y los mismos son falsos, siempre coloque que son "Interpretaciones libres" hechos con la informacion disponible, los recreo con el fin de dar una identidad a los cientos de proyectos que carecen de un modesto corte esquemático, les recuerdo que durante la "Guerra Fria" todos los trabajos que vi en cientos de publicaciones eran falsas, al ser realizadas sin la data, que evidentemente no se tenia ejemplo el Cutaway del Tu-16 Badger todavía hoy sigue siendo altamente impreciso, los invito a visitar el Foro argentino donde escribo "Zona-Militar.com.ar" en el tema que modestamente desarrollo ahí "Cutaways, Cortes Esquemáticos de Aviones", les dejo el enlace para los que tengan a bien visitar y ver cientos de trabajos de muchos artistas y las modestas modificaciones y algunos originales que he realizado de modelos que carecían de un dibujo "Cutaway".

Saludos desde Maracay, Venezuela Motocar

P.D. Aquí no llegan ni venden las publicaciones de aviación mas prestigiosas del mundo.
 

hesham

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By the way,


the designation HA-300 was also called XC-6.
 

Clipper996

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Helwan HA-300

I've got a question regarding the HA-300; does anyone know what the fuel capacity was on the prototypes that flew?
 

hesham

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Re: Helwan HA-300

Welcome aboard Clipper996,

at first we have a topic for it here;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3391.msg241657.html#msg241657

and I will search about this Info,maybe I will find something about it.
 

Clipper996

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Re: Helwan HA-300

Thank you Hesham,

I already searched through that topic but I've only found some info (on fuel capacity) regarding the original tailless version of HA-300 (which never flew).
 

Arjen

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Clipper996 said:
I've got a question regarding the HA-300; does anyone know what the fuel capacity was on the prototypes that flew?
1214 kg for the E 300-powered aircraft. Source: 'Willy Messerschmitt - Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues' by Hans J Ebert / Johann B Kaiser / Klaus Peters, Bernard & Graefe Verlag, 1992.
 

Petrus

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Arjen said:
Source: 'Willy Messerschmitt - Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues' by Hans J Ebert / Johann B Kaiser / Klaus Peters, Bernard & Graefe Verlag, 1992.
Does that book contain more information on HA-300?

I'm considering to buy it, so I wonder what it's worth.

Piotr
 

richard

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http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Messerschmitt-Projects-Schiffer-Military/dp/0887409261

So far I remember there was many interesting infos about the HA-300 in this book...
 

Arjen

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There is some information about the HA 300 in it, but the book's big strength is the overview it gives of Messerschmitt's many accomplishments.
A more elaborate treatment (20 pages) of the HA 300 can be found in 'Messerschmitt Geheimprojekte' by Willy Radinger / Walter Schick, AVIATIC Verlag 1991.
 

richard

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Sorry , I knew the german book , and believed the english one was just a traduction ...
 

Arjen

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I believe it actually is. Schiffer published some translations of the Bernard + Graefe series 'Die deutsche Luftfahrt'.
 

Arjen

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richard said:
Sorry , I knew the german book , and believed the english one was just a traduction ...
This time I followed the Amazon-link :p
Apologies for misunderstanding.
The linked title is another translation of a German book published by Schiffer. The rather voluminous Kaiser/Ebert/Peters book is about Messerschmitt's entire career, the much thinner Radinger/Schick book concentrates on prototypes and unbuilt projects. Both books devote lots of pages to Messerschmitt's postwar work.
Again, both books were translated from German to English and published by Schiffer. I bought the German originals before the Schiffer books appeared.
 

Petrus

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Skyblazer said:
Photos of the HA-300P demonstrator glider, the HA-300 wind-tunnel model and the HA-300 full-scale mockup, all from Aeroplano #30:
Let me correct you a little bit: the photos you've posted comes from the "Aeroplano" magazine Issue 29 (article "Ejército del Aire e Industria Aeronáutica. Guerra, posguerra y política de prototipos" by José Antonio Martínez Cabeza).
The issue may be downloaded at http://www.ejercitodelaire.mde.es/ea/pag?idDoc=3D574C79D0680966C1257999002CD91D

Piotr
 

hesham

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A very good article about it in Aeroplano 36,

it contains everything and its story from beginning.
 

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