Spanish/Egyptian HA-300 supersonic fighter project
- Thread starter Dronte
- Start date
Retrofit
ACCESS: Top Secret
- Joined
- 21 February 2007
- Messages
- 642
- Reaction score
- 272
Definitively a scale model.
Attachments
I believe that it was meant to use the Russian Vympel K-13 (NATO AA-2 Atoll) in Egyptian service.
hi i have a question what are the caracteristics of the hispano ha23P glider demonstrator (lenght,wingspan,height,ect...) if you have them please i searched but c ant find them.
Attachments
thanks
- Joined
- 26 May 2006
- Messages
- 32,676
- Reaction score
- 11,900
It didn't carry Egypt mark of course.
I often wonder - why did the Marut / E-300 failed ? what was wrong with the combination ? A pity India didn't picked the slack with the E-300 past June 1969. Considering the fate of Kaveri, decades after.
Even more since E-300 derived from the NK-12, through Ferdinand Brandner and the TV-2 turbine... then the NK-12 was the engine of the Tu-126 and Tu-142... and India got both aircraft in the end (one Tu-126 in 1971 during the war with Pakistan, and a few Tu-142s: 1987-2017... )
Imagine, if Brandner had stuck a few more years, he could have returned to the E-300 roots via a Tu-126's NK-12s... what might have been.
But this is not a thread for speculation.
Even more since E-300 derived from the NK-12, through Ferdinand Brandner and the TV-2 turbine... then the NK-12 was the engine of the Tu-126 and Tu-142... and India got both aircraft in the end (one Tu-126 in 1971 during the war with Pakistan, and a few Tu-142s: 1987-2017... )
Imagine, if Brandner had stuck a few more years, he could have returned to the E-300 roots via a Tu-126's NK-12s... what might have been.
But this is not a thread for speculation.
- Joined
- 6 September 2006
- Messages
- 4,315
- Reaction score
- 7,468
During my researches on another topic I came across a letter by Sir Arnold Hall (chairman of Hawker Siddeley Aviation) following his visit to Egypt in February 1972. He was given a tour of the Helwan plant.
He states at that point the plant was basically making MiG-21 drop tanks. He describes it as "Its tools are rather out of date - the plant has gone to seed, though very large sums have been spent on it in the past.
The Soviets had offered a MiG-21MF licence but the EAF seemed reluctant to build them, wanting a fighter-bomber which the Soviets refused to supply.
He describes the engine shop as being more active but still of limited capability. He claims he was shown "two engines of their own" which he said looked like copies of a French and a Russian engine. Presumably these must have been one of the locally-built Marbores for HA-200 and the Brandner E-300 (Brandner had worked in the USSR before his release in 1953 so its possible this is why it seemed "Russian" to Hall?).
Hall goes on to claim only 35 HA-200s had been built (Flight a few years earlier had estimated 65, Wiki states 90 - not sure what the real figure is?)
Of the HA-300 he says "had never flown, but recent orders have been given to prepare it for flight." This must refer to the 3rd prototype as of course the first two prototypes had flown a decade earlier. Given that the HA-300 project was terminated in 1969 this resurgence of interest in early 1972 is interesting as is whether the engine was still the intended E-300 or something else.
He noted there seemed to be no provision for any armament.
Hall goes on to say "Discussions revealed that instructions had been given to adapt it to a fighter-bomber role, under the number Cairo-400 - the airframe seemed unsuitable for such adaptation. I think little progress had been made with this task."
I have not come across the Cairo-400 designation before (in his letter the Helwan aircraft are referred to as Cairo-200, Cairo-300 and Cairo-400) and this seems to be a little-known further development, probably one that was short-lived.
He states at that point the plant was basically making MiG-21 drop tanks. He describes it as "Its tools are rather out of date - the plant has gone to seed, though very large sums have been spent on it in the past.
The Soviets had offered a MiG-21MF licence but the EAF seemed reluctant to build them, wanting a fighter-bomber which the Soviets refused to supply.
He describes the engine shop as being more active but still of limited capability. He claims he was shown "two engines of their own" which he said looked like copies of a French and a Russian engine. Presumably these must have been one of the locally-built Marbores for HA-200 and the Brandner E-300 (Brandner had worked in the USSR before his release in 1953 so its possible this is why it seemed "Russian" to Hall?).
Hall goes on to claim only 35 HA-200s had been built (Flight a few years earlier had estimated 65, Wiki states 90 - not sure what the real figure is?)
Of the HA-300 he says "had never flown, but recent orders have been given to prepare it for flight." This must refer to the 3rd prototype as of course the first two prototypes had flown a decade earlier. Given that the HA-300 project was terminated in 1969 this resurgence of interest in early 1972 is interesting as is whether the engine was still the intended E-300 or something else.
He noted there seemed to be no provision for any armament.
Hall goes on to say "Discussions revealed that instructions had been given to adapt it to a fighter-bomber role, under the number Cairo-400 - the airframe seemed unsuitable for such adaptation. I think little progress had been made with this task."
I have not come across the Cairo-400 designation before (in his letter the Helwan aircraft are referred to as Cairo-200, Cairo-300 and Cairo-400) and this seems to be a little-known further development, probably one that was short-lived.
Last edited:
Me too, did a qui serch, found nothing. Must have been short lived. Still, browsing Google books I've found an interesting tidbit (see attached).
In 1975 Egypt and a few other Arab nations formed a big consortia called AOI - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Organization_for_Industrialization
With 1979 Egypt truce with Israel it imploded, but Egypt carried on and by 1983 build its first Gazelle helicopter from kits. Looks closely at the attached excerpt of a french magazine (in yellow). Seems that, at the roll-out of the Gazelle, AOI (which had taken over the former E-300 jet engine plant at Helwan) showed an E-300 turbojet, split into its major components.
Heck I also found the Brandner E-300 detailed characteristics in Flight International, 1969.
In 1975 Egypt and a few other Arab nations formed a big consortia called AOI - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Organization_for_Industrialization
With 1979 Egypt truce with Israel it imploded, but Egypt carried on and by 1983 build its first Gazelle helicopter from kits. Looks closely at the attached excerpt of a french magazine (in yellow). Seems that, at the roll-out of the Gazelle, AOI (which had taken over the former E-300 jet engine plant at Helwan) showed an E-300 turbojet, split into its major components.
Heck I also found the Brandner E-300 detailed characteristics in Flight International, 1969.
Attachments
Last edited:
Dear Toryu, do you know where I can get this photo? Do you know the location where it was made? Kind regards Bernard
- Joined
- 3 September 2006
- Messages
- 1,387
- Reaction score
- 1,211
The truth is, I think it is fortunate that the three prototypes are preserved. Although I need to see photos of one of them. I also wonder what the instrument panel would be like on the stock airplanes. Clearly the two panels I have seen
correspond to prototypes, without radar screen and with indicators reduced to a minimum.
Attachments
The one HA-300 which was on display at the "Flugwerft Schleissheim" was transfered to "Flugmuseum Messerschmitt" in Manching, in in 2015. It is now mentioned on their website, but it appears the shown "Lebenslauf" refers to a different aircraft: https://www.flugmuseum-messerschmitt.de/FLUGZEUGE-UND-CREW/HA-300/index.php
There is no second HA-300 in Germany. Another HA-300 is in the Air Force Museum in Cairo... and the third prototype seems to be still in the Helwan factory, not accessible for the public.
There is no second HA-300 in Germany. Another HA-300 is in the Air Force Museum in Cairo... and the third prototype seems to be still in the Helwan factory, not accessible for the public.
- Joined
- 8 January 2006
- Messages
- 1,605
- Reaction score
- 677
From what I've read, the third prototype was to have been fitted with an afterburning E300 as well as variable centerbody intakes. I'm looking at how to modify A&A's kit to represent this aircraft.
Similar threads
-
-
List of reference books by period or manufacturer: Spanish aircraft
- Started by c460
- Replies: 6
-
