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Space Suit Prototypes (like Grumman Moon Suit, Republic etc)

The Artist

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The Artist said:
This suit is only listed as a Gemini Spacesuit Prototype donated by McDonnell Douglas. It was already on that dumpy mannequin when it was donated to the museum. I've been told that this was the suit they (McDonnell Douglas) used to take to events and presentations so it has seen a lot of abuse.

This silver suit is a G-2G manufactured by B.F. Goodrich.
The mannequin the suit is on has too much damage to let the suit remain on it - the right hip and the left ankle are broken. It has been flat on its back in storage for about a year while I studied it to plan the removal. Today, we started the removal process. (Though, the helmet and gloves had been removed before it went into storage.) Today, we opened the main entry zipper to get a better evaluation of the mannequin. I am photo documenting the steps and details while this work is being done and will set up a site - probably a Flicker site - to share low to medium resolution copies of those pictures. Watch this thread for updates.

Attached are the ID tags I've photographed so far. In a few days, I'll post a few more photos here along with a history of this suit.
 

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Michel Van

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fascinating Picture, The Artist

So far i know it was Gemini prototype suit based on Mercury suits made by B.F. Goodrich.
in some way a advance Mercury suit
they build around 15 prototype suits were labels G2G-1 to G2G-15

But they lose against David Clark Company more advanced G2C, what include state-of-art-pressure glove

Now to question
In "US Space gear" by Lillian D. Kozloski
Show a picture of a "G-2G" that partial wear and quick-assembly suit with detachable arms and legs parts
but your G-2G suit not feature anything of that
i guess the picture show in "US Space gear" is the GX-2G suit not the G-2G!

Were is the entrance Zipper on this suit ?
On mercury suits they were cross the chest, but i don't see that on G-2G picture.

What size has this suit ?
because the Label in Helmet say "Size-Grissom"
now Grissom had a Height of 5 ft 7 in (1.70 m)
That could indicated that suit was made for him for testing.
 

The Artist

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The zipper on the G-2G (described in the opening motion) starts in the front crotch, proceeds in a straight path under then up the back to the base of the neck. The zipper opening is in the same location on our G-2C - the green one in the other set of pictures earlier in this thread. Our G-2C is a test article constructed without the outer layers.

I believe the 'Size LR' means this suit is a large suit. It does look to me to be larger than our Mercury suit that Grissom used while training in the Mercury Capsule. The Size: Grissom listing on the white tag in the helmet is unique, so far, on our G-2G suit. I suspect that tag was an inventory control tag used within McDonnell. On the back inside of the helmet is the designation G2G10. (Going from memory here as I'm writing this at home.) Does that suggest that the helmet was originally part of the suit serial numbered 10?

I have identified G-2G suits in a number of photos of 'astronauts' posed in and around the Gemini full scale mockup. One source I came across the other day is a McDonnell publication on Space Simulation Chambers. The captions with photos showing 'astronauts' approaching a Gemini capsule in McDonnell's 33 foot diameter vacuum chamber, and showing one entering a Gemini cabin mockup in their smaller Life Support chamber, state that space suited McDonnell Aircraft Company pilots are shown in these tests. I suspect that the helmets and gloves were issued according to size, not suit serial number, according to the sizes of the pilot using a suit for the tests.

It appears that our G-2G suit was placed on the mannequin while it was still with MAC. (Then it spent time in the Missouri History Museum before they received approval from McDonnell Douglas to donate it to our Museum.) A few visitors to the Museum have mentioned a room at MAC where an Astronaut display had been set up with space suited mannequins. The mannequin in our suit appears to be from the 60s. Parts of it are made of plaster, and the hair is sculpted twine. I mention the mannequin to get to one major bit of damage on the suit, and to what I've learned from inspecting that damage. If you are familiar with mannequins, you'll know that standing figures attach to a rod extending up from the base. The back of the lower left leg of the suit was sliced open to let the rod reach the socket in the leg. :'( In the photos I've seen elsewhere of these suits, it appears that the boots were part of the legs. Looking at our suit I've seen that the boots were laced to the cuffs of the legs. Now that I've inspected that slit, I see that an inner liner (not sure if it's a fixed part of the boot) is zipped just inside the cuff then the cuff of the boot is laced to the leg cuff.

More info, and pictures, to follow when I get back to the Museum.
 

Michel Van

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Thx for reply

So far i know the G2G suits were only used for Gemini Mock-up, so MAC could finalize the Design
until the David Clark G2C take over for first Gemini hardware and Flight training and astronauts Parachute system test.

seem your museum G2G suit is Nr 2 , but is equipped with Helmet for Grissom is possible from Suit Nr 10.
so far i know those Helms were custom build to fit the Astronaut head.

with that rod in mannequin explain the odd position on right Boot in picture were mannequin is still in the suit.
but that connection of Boots to suit is strange
the final Mercury suit had the "boots" as an integral part of the spacesuit itself. (see picture )
i guess this feature comes from the GX-2G suit so the astronauts could remove the Boots from there Suits inside the Gemini capsule.
 

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The two Mercury suits in our collection were both practice/training suits. The one used by Grissom has air, communication and telemetry connections that match what I've seen in the photos of the astronauts getting into and out of the spacecraft before and after their missions. The Cooper suit has the earlier (?) array of smaller plug connections for telemetry. The Cooper suit has been on an extended loan to the St Louis Science Center, so I'm not as clear on the details, but I believe the boots are separate on that one. I know that the boots are separate on the Grissom suit. The legs have have an inner liner that covers the feet and a band of the silver outer layer that loops under the heel to hold the outer layers in place. (I can see that loop in the picture you posted here.) The boots with the Grissom suit are sturdier than what I see in your picture. Now I'm going to have to go searching through the photos again.

I'll post a few pictures of the Grissom suit to compare to the picture you've posted as some things in your picture seem new to me.

Since the Mercury suits have been brought into this discussion, I'll share this not as commonly discussed bit of information. While the long undergarments (union suits) used with the Gemini space suits were made to spec under contract, the union suits used with Mercury were modified off the shelf Hanes garments. I'll post a few pictures later.

Now, to get back to the G-2G suit. The reason you had not noticed the zipper is because the loose end of the compression strap hangs down in front of it. There was a different arrangement of that strap on the Gemini suits, from what you see on the Mercury suit, because some of the Gemini missions were planned to last fourteen days. The astronauts had to be able to adapt to the requirements of the mission, but no one could hold in their used food that long. The late Rose Church, former MAC Aerospace Nurse, and donor of a number of the Mercury and Gemini related items in our collection, told a story about this that I'll share when I post the photos of the Gemini undergarment.
 

The Artist

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After going back and looking at the full figure photo of the G-2G I posted earlier, I see that the compression strap is to the side because of the odd stance the figure is in. There is a short strap hanging in front of the zipper and I believe that was to block anything from snagging the button that held the zipper in the closed position.

Also. That is the Grissom Mercury suit in the glass case behind the G-2G suit. Notice the boots and the foot coverings.
 

carmelo

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Michel Van said:
the final Mercury suit had the "boots" as an integral part of the spacesuit itself. (see picture )
i guess this feature comes from the GX-2G suit so the astronauts could remove the Boots from there Suits inside the Gemini capsule.

The Cooper's suit was more recent than G2G suit.
G2G was developed in 1962,Cooper's suit was modified in 1963.

P.S.
If Mercury-Atlas 10 mission had occurred,Alan Shepard would dress the same type of suit of Cooper or another more advanced model?
 

The Artist

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Thanks, Carmelo. This information gave me some new leads to check.

Our Cooper Mercury suit is likely the one he wore when this photo was taken.
 

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The Artist

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Three pictures to illustrate my comments about the G-2G suit.

In the picture of the slit cut for the stand you can see the leg part of the zipper. I do not yet know if the other part is in there but not zipped, or not in there at all. You can also see how the outer layer of the boot was laced to the leg.

The compression strap carry through picture shows how the load was transferred from the cloth strap to the metal cords which ran below the outer layer. At various points along the outer layer seams, there are openings (held closed with Velcro) to access adjustment points in the metal cord system.

Until I come across differing information, I'm taking the G2G10 marking in the helmet to mean that it was originally with the tenth G-2G suit.
 

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The Artist

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Now to the undergarments

On the Mercury undergarment, the patches were applied to draw perspiration away from the body. Notice how the Hanes label got snagged when they sewed the back patch in place.

The Gemini undergarment, this one was assigned to Elliot See, has a contract number and designation. Those oddly placed button holes were for the leads from the telemetry pickup devices that were attached to the astronaut's body. The leads were coiled then slipped into those pockets to keep them from getting tangled, or misidentified during the suiting up process. Notice the fly opening in the backside of the garment.

Now, here is what Rose Church had to say about the Gemini undergarments. When the astronauts were issued the garment they'd use on the mission, the first thing they'd do was cut that fly into a big oval. This was to make it easier for them to get the defecation glove (pouch) into place when they needed to use one during the mission. She said that after splashdown on one mission (she didn't say which mission, but I think it was Gemini 5) the astronauts had been given permission to remove their space suits to keep cool during the very long time it was taking the recovery ships to reach them. When the call came to them that the recovery helicopters were about to leave the deck, one of the astronauts called back and asked them to be sure they were bringing their robes because they didn't want their backsides hanging out for all to see.
 

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The Artist

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Okay. I stand corrected on something (again). While typing the above message, I remembered that the Museum has a second Mercury undergarment in storage. I pulled that one out and it does have a contract label. These garments were made - or modified - by B.F. Goodrich. This second garment was originally manufactured by Russett. Again. the manufacturer's label was snagged when the back patch was sewn on.
 

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The Artist

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I'm continuing to research the history of this suit. Today I came across this NASA PDF which gives a good, though simple, overview of where the different suits fit in the timeline.

http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/spacesuits/presentations/McBarron_Spacesuit_Gemini.pdf

According to this, only two of the G-2G suits went to MAC. However, it is possible that other G-2G suits went there after they were no longer required elsewhere.
 

The Artist

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First I should say that the label photo is a detail of the David Clark Co G-2C in our collection without the outer layer.

Our Goodrich G-2G is now off that mannequin. These are shots of it on the stand.
 

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carmelo

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More photos.
 

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carmelo

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Other photos.
 

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carmelo

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Other photos:
 

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carmelo

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Now,a very early proposal for Gemini suit ( early 1962).
And the Goodrich version of Gemini 7 type suit,for 14 days flight (late 1962).
 

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Michel Van

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Thank for The Artist and carmelo for upload on Picture


A Surprise for me is that one suite is labeled J.H.Glenn
now was Glenn involved in early Gemini program ?
so far i know Glenn was on non flight status by JFK because his National Hero status and Glenn quit NASA on January 1964.
 

The Artist

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While I have yet to see photos to confirm this, I have hear the story, from a few sources, about a large display of spacesuits on mannequins done up to represent the astronauts of that time.
 

carmelo

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Michel Van said:
Thank for The Artist and carmelo for upload on Picture


A Surprise for me is that one suite is labeled J.H.Glenn
now was Glenn involved in early Gemini program ?
so far i know Glenn was on non flight status by JFK because his National Hero status and Glenn quit NASA on January 1964.

Well,for what i know those suits were tested in mid-late 1962,so is possible that Glenn was involved.

P.S.
Artist,you know something about this suit?
Type,maker and other?
The guy that wear the suit resembles Gordon Cooper.
 

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Michel Van

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I can answer that Carmelo

That's David Clark Company G1C suit for Gemini, after NASA rejection of Goodrich G1C suit.
early 1963, NASA Photo S-62-8074

Source: U.S. Space Gear by lilllian D. Kozioski
 

carmelo

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I have a question...
Is possible a accomplish a EVA with a suit with a overgarnment alluminized or colored (in red or orange,for exemple) or the only color thermally possible for EVA suits is white?
 

Michel Van

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carmelo said:
I have a question...
Is possible a accomplish a EVA with a suit with a overgarnment alluminized or colored (in red or orange,for exemple) or the only color thermally possible for EVA suits is white?

That's dependent how powerful the cooling system of Suit is
Aluminized and white color are prefers ones, to keep power consumption low
More darker the color more power need the cooling system.
so not even think to use Black for space suits
 

Michel Van

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carmelo said:
But alluminized cover have a very big problem of reflexion,right?

yes, that reason they used aluminum-coated nylon, for thermal control purposes, it reflect light and heat. on Mercury space suits
the Gemini suits used Mylar that had much better isolation +121 °C in direct sunlight and -157 °C in shadow. making aluminum-coated nylon unnecessary
after Apollo one fire the US Space suits had top cover layer from fire resistant material
 

The Artist

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carmelo said:
Early 1963?
So the G2G is more old!

Yes, the G-2G could have predated this suit. Think of this classification system as a variation of the U.S. Navy's designation system in which you could have the Grumman F4F Wildcat predate the McDonnell F2H Banshee.

The information below is from the NASA Knowledge Capture PDF I mentioned earlier.

SPACE SUIT TYPE NOTATION
• First letter left of (-) denotes Project
M = Mercury
G = Gemini
A = Apollo
• Letter (X) next to first letter denotes experimental prototype
GX-
• Number to left of (-) denotes development sequence number
GX-1, G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4
• Letter following number denotes manufacturer
A = Arrowhead Products
C = David Clark Co.
G = B. F. Goodrich Co.
L = International Latex Co.
• Examples
GX-1G = Gemini Prototype Suit mfg. by B.F. Goodrich Co.
G-3C = Gemini Flight Suit mfg. by David Clark Co.
AX-1L = Apollo Prototype Suit mfg. by International Latex Co.

Source: NASA memo by C.C. Lutz dated July 9, 1962
 

The Artist

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I have found the presentation that goes with the NASA Knowledge Capture document I mentioned earlier. It runs about an hour and forty minutes.

http://wn.com/gemini_spacesuit


Some interesting bits of information to be mined from this one.
 

Michel Van

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I got link to Video about ESA "EVA Space Suit 2000" prototype


http://www.esa.int/spaceinvideos/Videos/1994/01/EVA_Space_Suit_2000


Thanks to Alternate History Forum Member "Pietke" for this info


source:
http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=352847
 

Graham1973

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Another piece of space emergency equipment...

The design, development, and fabrication of a feasibility model of a breathing bag life support system for extravehicular activity are discussed. The breathing vest and back pack portable life support system contains connectors which allow external water and gas supply. At a metabolic rate of 2000 BTU per hour, the two low pressure bottles provide 27 minutes of breathing gas for a total filled system weight of 30.5 pounds.

Development of a portable life support system and emergency life support pack

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19720005423.pdf
 

The Artist

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I received the following request at the Greater St Louis Air and Space Museum and I am sharing it here in the hope that someone here might find some information to help this gentleman. And because this information fits within this topic.

Subject: Gemini G2-C Pressure Suit: CWO Charles O. Laine

Dear Mr. Burke

Perhaps you can assist me in my quest. My Father, CWO Charles O. Laine, worked for the 6511th Test Parachute group in El Centro California in the early 60's and did some work with the Gemini program's personnel recovery system. Please see the attached photo. Question: Can his space suit be located. I know it was custom made for him by (David Clark). I have found CWO Mitchell B. Kanowski's, also in the attached picture on YouTube. I would appreciate any assistance you could give. Please see attached and advise. Thanks!

He attached these pictures along with the links (with additional statements.)

I believe I have located SSGT James R. Marcum's G2-C space suit. He is on the far right in the photo attached. Please see attached picture and website below. If you zoom in on the picture on the website below you can read Marcum on the right chest.

http://collections.si.edu/search/direct/L3NlYXJjaC9yZXN1bHRzLmh0bT9xPXJlY29yZF9JRDpuYXNtX0ExOTcxMDc4NjAwMA==<https://ex2010.sandi.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=ZeoSkCBKjEelH-5eJUgO4-5HgP8JnNIINBckZqX9GcK5xQxdyonmVj1tDopH8Wv8M1rSIXXE1CY.&URL=http%3a%2f%2fcollections.si.edu%2fsearch%2fdirect%2fL3NlYXJjaC9yZXN1bHRzLmh0bT9xPXJlY29yZF9JRDpuYXNtX0ExOTcxMDc4NjAwMA%3d%3d

CWO Mitch Kanowski's Helmet is also on the SI website under GH-2C.

http://collections.si.edu/search/results.htm?q=record_ID:nasm_A19730836000<https://ex2010.sandi.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=ZeoSkCBKjEelH-5eJUgO4-5HgP8JnNIINBckZqX9GcK5xQxdyonmVj1tDopH8Wv8M1rSIXXE1CY.&URL=http%3a%2f%2fcollections.si.edu%2fsearch%2fresults.htm%3fq%3drecord_ID%3anasm_A19730836000>

If anyone knows of any place for him to search, either post it here or send me a message. Either way, I'll pass it on to William Laine.

Thanks.
 

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Michel Van

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Interesting Video

I wonder who the new SpaceX suits gonna look like
who are design by a Hollywood company "Ironhead"
they dress all superhero in Movies
 

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Looking at the Grumman space suit on page 1 of this thread, I'm reminded of the space suit used in this 1965 Soviet film. An older film (1957) uses a different design which doesn't appear till the very end (last minute).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oer2Ph1IP4

Road To The Stars (very end of movie)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CX0oSjwLqI
 

The Artist

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This seems to be the place for this.

I don't know enough about this site to fully rely on its reporting. However. This odd article does have some useful details on the development of the Mercury and Apollo suits. Note the bit about the 'Mini-me' (child sized) Mercury suits made by B.F. Goodrich.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/nasa-tried-and-failed-to-reclaim-these-spacesuits-that-were-auctioned-last-year?trk_source=recommended
 

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fredymac said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7tyJGC0n4M

http://gizmodo.com/nasas-new-astronaut-suits-are-straight-out-of-2001-a-s-1791625989
 

Michel Van

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Here You tube video about British Pressure Suits
Barrington Bond posted some picture about this in Reply #103 and #104 here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ6BFlB7xxU
 

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X-20 Dyna Soar Space Suit (looks like X-15 pilot Pete Knight) Note: X-20 cockpit simulator in background.
 

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carmelo

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Michel Van said:
Here You tube video about British Pressure Suits
Barrington Bond posted some picture about this in Reply #103 and #104 here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ6BFlB7xxU

Wow! The British pressure suit had the hood helmet like Gemini 7,Sokol and now Starliner suits!
I see more resemblance with Russian suits more than American suits.
 

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